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Old 2012-07-06, 01:05   Link #1
Kairin
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Accel World - Character Discussion - Takumu

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Old 2012-07-06, 11:58   Link #2
Korps!
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Made a big impression during his heinous backstabbing of Haruyuki. Now a very dull and transparent character with no real purpose.
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Old 2012-07-06, 14:18   Link #3
Fenrir_valindri
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Needs more spotlight imo, his avatar is awesome too.
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Old 2012-07-06, 14:22   Link #4
Dr. Casey
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His Accel World avatar is blue to represent the case of blue balls Chiyuri has given him

Truly a tragic character
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Old 2012-12-07, 19:56   Link #5
Sunder the Gold
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This is initially going to sound dismissive, but bear with me:

Takumu is very much a character with a Worf-type role; he's gone down first in every major confrontation thus far. He almost serves just to pad out the time until Haruyuki gets to be the hero.

Spoiler for track record:


This is all sadly predictable, and one of the reasons I dislike having a designated hero among the protagonists. More and more, I am growing disgusted with the idea that only the designated hero is allowed to save the day, and that his friends are all merely sidekicks who exist to enable his victories (or just pad the time).

Thankfully, Takumu usually acquits himself admirably in combat, such that I do not fault him for his losses.

Spoiler for performance:



I said "usually", though. The sole exception to his admirable performance would be his loss against Haru in their first battle, since Takumu's defeat stemmed entirely from a loss of his usual tactical judgment.

At the point that Haru discovered his ability to fly, Takumu had far more HP left. If he had simply retreated back into the hospital building, he would have robbed Haru of the only advantage he had.

Their initial engagement had made it abundantly clear that Silver Crow was no match for Cyan Pile in the tight hallways, especially with the Pile Driver's ability to reach down the corridors. The low ceiling and narrow walls would eliminate Silver Crow's flying evasion, and the intersections (or doorways) would let Cyan Pile hide from any flying charges while striking at Crow as he passed.

And if Haru didn't follow him back into that death trap? With his lower health, Silver Crow would have lost to time-out.

But Takumu had lost his cool, and didn't think about the fight rationally. He became caught up in proving his superiority in a straight-forward confrontation without the use of tactics. Otherwise he would never have done something so risky as try to hit a FLYING target with a straight-thrust attack like Cyan Lightning Spike.

At the very least, Takumu could have tried another Splash Stinger when Haru inevitably dove at him. Haru couldn't attack from any direction but head-on, and Splash Stinger would have a wide enough strike zone and deal enough damage to reliably end the fight in Cyan Pile's favor. Also, the Splash Stinger doesn't require rooting himself to the floor, so Pile could have DODGED Crow's dive.


Of course, even if Takumu had kept his head and played smart, he still would have failed his real objective so long as the fight lasted long enough (after the "wing moment") for Kuroyukihime to wake up.

Last edited by Sunder the Gold; 2012-12-08 at 12:02.
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Old 2012-12-07, 20:56   Link #6
judasmartel
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Well, he is the Lancer of this series. And Lancers usually have bad luck.
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Old 2012-12-07, 21:17   Link #7
Sunder the Gold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
Well, he is the Lancer of this series. And Lancers usually have bad luck.
Despite otherwise being badasses. And bros.


Speaking of bad luck, I've got to question Spiral Gravity Hammer. Quite frankly, it sucks.

On the positive side, it doesn't require a full SP gauge; Taku could use it with only about 80% SP, and it dropped Pile's SP to roughly 40%. BUT, the Pile Driver's basic attack seems to have done comparable damage without that cost, when it severed Silver Crow's arm. Further, the Hammer does not inflict appreciably more damage than Splash Stinger, which is either a Normal attack or a weaker Special.

It requires a long preparation time, in which Taku has to inscribe the magic circle, then transform the Pile Driver, then wait to use frickin' targeting lasers (WHY). On top of that, it requires that Taku's target be directly or at least vaguely below him, and preferably pinned down or boxed in. That's very situational and tricky to pull off, such that it ought to be an Instant Kill move.

It breaks the pattern --nay, the entire point of Cyan Pile and its Pile Driver -- by exchanging the piercing stake with a blunt hammer. The ONLY reason for this seems to be a Dues Ex Machina to prevent Silver Crow from losing the fight instantly from the hit.

In short: Spiral Gravity Hammer is all flash and no substance. It performed worse than any other attack Taku could have used, including just stabbing Silver Crow repeatedly with the Pile Driver's basic extention attack.


Cyan Lightning Spike would seem like it could perform the same function (would you need anti-recoil anchors when firing DOWN?). It also doesn't require a full gauge to use, and only requires about 50% SP.


What's worse is that Cyan Pile loses access to the Pile Driver, the Gravity Hammer, and the Lightning Spike when he uses the Cyan Blade technique. Which doesn't seem to do ANYTHING except replace the weapon he's invested most of his points into.

Haru is far luckier, since his Laser Sword technique doesn't involve sacrificing any of his other capabilities. Rather than forcing him to change strategies, it just makes his prefered strategies better.

Haru also can't lose the Laser Sword technique along with an item, whereas Taku presumably can't use Cyan Blade if the Pile Driver is broken, stolen or traded away.
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Old 2012-12-09, 10:23   Link #8
Sunder the Gold
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Heck, even Cyan Lightning Spike doesn't make much sense.


Spoiler for the reasons behind Cyan Pile:


The law of game balance means that in exchange for his longer-ranged attacks, Cyan Pile is actually worse than your average Blue in terms of close-range engagement. And his weapon is rather clumsy in close-quarters compare to more conventional weapons.

Basically, when confronted with a conventional Blue avatar, Cyan Pile's prefered strategy ought to be retreat. A Blue opponent must close range with him, and Cyan Pile must keep him from doing that. So Takumu wants to fight a retreating battle, using his superior range to dismantle his opponent without ever letting him get close.

But Cyan Lightning Spike drops anchors and locks Cyan Pile to the ground, preventing him from retreating and forcing him to gamble on a single attack.

Worse, the range on CLS is ridiculous. Even if the attack hit, as a piercing attack, it's more likely to blow through the target than to pick them up and shove them away, so it's no good for creating the space that Cyan Pile needs.

Even if it DID pick up the target and shove them away, it would shove them too far away, beyond even the effective range of another Lightning Spike.

Only a projectile attack has any business shooting out that far, because you typically don't need to recover a projectile. Not as badly as Cyan Pile needs his stake to retract, because he's pretty vulnerable so long as its hanging out there and his feet are still anchored down.


Basically, other than his basic extending jab attack, the ONLY good move that Cyan Pile has is Splash Stinger.

It even makes sense given his fears and desires! If someone tries to hold him from behind while someone else attacks from the front, he could fire the Splash Stinger from his open chest to counter them. Further, if someone pins him down on the ground so that he can't bring his arms to bear (like Haru did), Splash Stinger to the rescue again!

AND it's the one attack that he doesn't lose when he uses the Cyan Blade.
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Old 2012-12-09, 10:42   Link #9
judasmartel
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Pile (Ranged Blue) and Leopard (Melee Red) are the reasons why they say AW's color system is screwed up.

Last edited by judasmartel; 2012-12-09 at 21:49.
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Old 2012-12-09, 16:39   Link #10
Sunder the Gold
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Is there any proof that Blood Leopard has absolutely no ranged weapon at all?

Also, Cyan Pile is definitely a melee avatar; a pile driver still hurts like hell at point blank, even when used only as a thick club. He's also big and strong enough to just beat you with his hands and feet. Heck, the second intro shows Cyan Pile *headbutting* Dusk Taker to great effect.
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Old 2012-12-09, 21:50   Link #11
judasmartel
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If the anime is to be believed, Leopard is pure melee, no ranged weapons.

However, she has the ability to absorb HP and SP.
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Old 2012-12-09, 22:16   Link #12
Sunder the Gold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
If the anime is to be believed, Leopard is pure melee, no ranged weapons.
We don't see her use one. But neither does she say she lacks one.

Most ranged attacks (especially for Reddish avatars) have been external guns. Avatars don't need to have their Enhanced Armaments equipped at any point during a fight.

Blood Leopard might simply have wanted to keep most of her abilities secret, reasoning that she didn't need them to accomplish her goal.


On the other hand, it IS odd that Cyan Pile isn't Indigo Pile, or some other Blue shade closer to Purple (the middle ground between long-range and close-range).

On the official color wheel, Cyan is closer to Green than Purple.

*shrug*


I'd still like to hear some opinions about Spiral Gravity Driver and Cyan Lightning Spike. Does anyone else see some value to those attacks that I've missed?
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Old 2012-12-09, 22:22   Link #13
judasmartel
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Well, given that Blue excels at CQC and Green excels at Defense, it's no wonder Pile can tank a lot of attacks.

While Bell does excel at Defense by virtue of being a Green type (actually Yellow + Green), Pile has more HP than her due to being a Blue type.

Note that it's never stated that Blue Types have high HP. I only assumed so because CQC types tend to have high HP in several RPGs (low HP, high SPD CQC types are a different story).
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Old 2012-12-09, 22:33   Link #14
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
We don't see her use one. But neither does she say she lacks one.

Most ranged attacks (especially for Reddish avatars) have been external guns. Avatars don't need to have their Enhanced Armaments equipped at any point during a fight.

Blood Leopard might simply have wanted to keep most of her abilities secret, reasoning that she didn't need them to accomplish her goal.
The bartender said that Rust Buzzsaw or whatever his name was would be super effective against her, because she's a melee fighter. It's likely she has some form of ranged attack, since she's red, but it's unlikely she's put any effort into leveling it at all, so it's effectively worthless.
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Old 2012-12-09, 23:38   Link #15
Masuzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
Pile (Ranged Blue) and Leopard (Melee Red) are the reasons why they say AW's color system is screwed up.
Except Cyan is blue + purple.

So it still makes sense.
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Old 2012-12-10, 02:59   Link #16
judasmartel
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Hmm... Okay, Cyan is blue+purple, which means CQC + Multi-Range, but what about Melee Red Blood Leopard? I assume she's supposed to spew fireballs from the avatar's mouth, but she didn't out points on that in exchange for improving her melee ability.

Of course, it's still possible that Leopard is just hiding her true abilities atm.
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Old 2012-12-10, 03:01   Link #17
Masuzu
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I can't comment on Blood Leopard as I'm anime-only and don't have enough information.

Though it's been mentioned before and she may just have neglected to put skill points in her ranged ability.


EDIT: Okay forget what I said, Cyan is blue+green. However, the nature of Cyan Pile's abilities and his appearance in color as well as how his color is described it would appear that it was simply a mistake of the author believing that Cyan is blue+purple.



EDIT2: Okay wtf is going on apparently the does know that Cyan is between blue and green but it's way to close to blue I'd call that Cerullean.

Still doesn't make sense as long as he doesn't have some purple in him, so I give up I don't know what's going on.

Last edited by Masuzu; 2012-12-10 at 07:13.
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Old 2012-12-10, 18:30   Link #18
Sunder the Gold
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I'd reply to points regarding Blood Leopard, but this is a thread about Takumu. If someone cares enough, they can request a new character thread, and I'll post in there.

So, regarding the Cyan Blade:

Spoiler for Cyan Blade's true power?:
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Old 2012-12-10, 18:34   Link #19
GDB
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I don't see how that's a yellow technique at all. His opponent was a cocky little bastard who was taunting him about his past injury, so he merely created an opening to taunt him. When he took the bait, Taku used his superior skill to put a hurting on him.
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Old 2012-12-10, 19:24   Link #20
Sunder the Gold
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Creating an opening doesn't necessarily mean your opening starts glowing as if to say, "This is my weak spot, strike me here!". Which is what his technique seemed to be doing, and it might even have used a mental compulsion. We know that powers in the Accelerated World can mess with your mind. (Memory Leak and the Armor of Catastrope, remember.)

I'm not saying it's a trick a Blue avatar would never have, I'm saying it's the sort of thing that Yellow avatars do all the time.


But on the subject of superior skill, can real world fighting skills be applied inside Accel World?

Haruyuki doesn't have any karate skills at all, so one must assume that his Punch and Kick attacks grant him at least the basic skills he needs to fight unarmed while using Silver Crow.

Would someone using a sword-based avatar, but lacking in real world swordsmanship, have gotten similar "training wheels"?
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