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Old 2012-12-09, 15:52   Link #11381
jvcscasio
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I actually liked Hitoyoshi disappearance 'cause it brought out Shiranui's love for Zenkichi.

So, even if I dislike Kumagawa, he is bringing development to where I want, so way to go!

Even if Zen comes back not loving Medaka, he would fall for her again, I'm sure, but the development would be awesome!
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Old 2012-12-09, 15:56   Link #11382
kenjtr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvcscasio View Post
Even if Zen comes back not loving Medaka, he would fall for her again, I'm sure, but the development would be awesome!
I dont really think zenkichi will choose medaka if he forgets about her since the he fall in love was the medaka who was trying prove zenkichis childhood ideals and he was actually happy with the result . Also zenkichis love developed for medaka because of long years friendship and if that dissappears i dont think a person like zenkichi will ever like medaka .
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Old 2012-12-09, 16:03   Link #11383
Randrak42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjtr View Post
I dont really think zenkichi will choose medaka if he forgets about her since the he fall in love was the medaka who was trying prove zenkichis childhood ideals and he was actually happy with the result . Also zenkichis love developed for medaka because of long years friendship and if that dissappears i dont think a person like zenkichi will ever like medaka .
He was SOOOO happy with the result that he did all he could to change her when he ran for president =.=
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Old 2012-12-09, 17:58   Link #11384
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by jvcscasio View Post
I actually liked Hitoyoshi disappearance 'cause it brought out Shiranui's love for Zenkichi.

So, even if I dislike Kumagawa, he is bringing development to where I want, so way to go!

Even if Zen comes back not loving Medaka, he would fall for her again, I'm sure, but the development would be awesome!
Word. For. Word.

I'm soooo hyped!
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Old 2012-12-09, 22:20   Link #11385
Guernsey
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This manga needs more shipping wars, Medaka x Zenikichi and Kumagawa x Zenikichi can't be the only ships in this manga.
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Old 2012-12-09, 23:17   Link #11386
Lupus753
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I don't remember no Zen X Kuma, but I believe Zen X Emukae was a thing that existed at some point before being killed off.
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Old 2012-12-10, 08:13   Link #11387
Randrak42
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I don't remember no Zen X Kuma, but I believe Zen X Emukae was a thing that existed at some point before being killed off.
By Zen himself.
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Old 2012-12-10, 08:29   Link #11388
Last Carpet
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Random thoughts for this arc.

Each arc, Nisio picks new characters he introduced to stay.

Naze, Kei
Misogi, Mukae
Ajimu(RIP), Hanten, Kamome
Namanie

I wonder who it'll be now, especially since this arc has only introduced two new characters, Obi and IIhiko.

Second..........

I still stand by the hope that Zenkichi's eventual restoration will erase all traces of his obsessive love for Medaka. Mainly for character development, let Zen get a taste of life without Medaka, and let Medaka get a taste of life without Zenkichi

Zen may get to experience love and adoration from a girl without the need to come within an inch of death to get any confirmation of feeling from the girl.

And Medaka would do well to develop without her emotional crutch. Someone who's not there to pick her up and a follow her around. Maybe develop some appreciation for him and what he goes through for her.

But.....I can't help but wonder.....

Fukurou is a sort of shadow to what Zenkichi could have been if he gave up trying to keep up with her and win her over. Makes me wonder if there's a possible parallel to Zen's development without Medaka. Then there's Kamome, the "Dark Hero". He's already sour and cynical like Kamome, he could turn out to be like him.

What do you think?
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Old 2012-12-10, 09:08   Link #11389
silvercover
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^speaking of hanten, any idea when the hell is he going to appear again? seems like his replacement of ajimu is just a one thing, heck ajimu seems to be showing up or at least "shown" a lot while hanten is nowhere to be found.
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Old 2012-12-10, 09:11   Link #11390
kenjtr
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I also want to know how will zenkichi feel if he lived a normal life since from what i see he just doesnt have a clue about it because all his life medaka dragged him , i think after this arc medaka notices she is doing more harm to zenkichi by staying his side and leave him for good but ofcourse zenkichi forgetting about her and live a happy life with a normal girl would be best for him . On the other hand i noticed that zenkichi has a really crappy luck when it comes to women so i really wonder what kind of lunatic would he love if it wasnt medaka .
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Old 2012-12-10, 09:22   Link #11391
Last Carpet
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On the other hand i noticed that zenkichi has a really crappy luck when it comes to women so i really wonder what kind of lunatic would he love if it wasnt medaka .
Uh....Shiranui, Nekomi, Naze, Mukae, Ajimu, Torai, Namanie(maybe)

And Medaka herself. Even if he forgets, I doubt she's willing to give him up easily
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Old 2012-12-10, 09:45   Link #11392
[HearT]
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Originally Posted by kenjtr View Post
I also want to know how will zenkichi feel if he lived a normal life since from what i see he just doesnt have a clue about it because all his life medaka dragged him , i think after this arc medaka notices she is doing more harm to zenkichi by staying his side and leave him for good but ofcourse zenkichi forgetting about her and live a happy life with a normal girl would be best for him . On the other hand i noticed that zenkichi has a really crappy luck when it comes to women so i really wonder what kind of lunatic would he love if it wasnt medaka .
I don't think you realize that Zenkichi actually wants to be with Medaka, so even if the story does progress with Zenkichi forgetting about Medaka, in the end he'll of course remember that he loves her and wants to be with her, then they'll ride off into the sunset and be all smoochy smooch and stuff

No matter how much you hate Medaka, it's inevitable that she'll be with your precious Zenkichi~
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Old 2012-12-10, 11:47   Link #11393
kenjtr
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Originally Posted by [HearT] View Post
I don't think you realize that Zenkichi actually wants to be with Medaka, so even if the story does progress with Zenkichi forgetting about Medaka, in the end he'll of course remember that he loves her and wants to be with her, then they'll ride off into the sunset and be all smoochy smooch and stuff

No matter how much you hate Medaka, it's inevitable that she'll be with your precious Zenkichi~
I dont think we can say that for sure since medaka basically pushed herself to zenkichi and left him no chioce but herself , anyway just imagine zenkicihi who never met medaka i think he would be so happy .
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Old 2012-12-10, 12:58   Link #11394
Wolfenstein
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Look, Kenjtr, I view Medaka the same way as you. I really do. She impedes my enjoyment of the manga at several points of it's story. And she drags down Zenkichi's character greatly, it's really the only part of his character which I dislike.

But if one constant can be seen in Medaka Box, it's Medaka x Zenkichi. Even if the fans despise it(and most do outside of Japan), it's going to happen. Even if I dislike it, I accept it.

I mean, just look at the past volume covers. No doubt.
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Old 2012-12-10, 13:26   Link #11395
Guernsey
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What is even more annoying (and amazing) is that despite Medaka Box being a parody manga, it actually succeeds at being just like the very manga it is parody. Granted it has always been this way but still for every trope it mocks, it always plays them completely straight in its own strange manner. Medaka and Zenikichi aren't good each other yet it has been enforced throughout the whole manga. Zenikichi much like everything revolves around Medaka and Medaka just doesn't know it.
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Old 2012-12-10, 16:00   Link #11396
ccie20012
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Wolfenstein
Well said.
I would say - that's my cue.
I wanted to write it before.
It's a simple equation: Medaka x Zenikichi = love (const).
In fact, if we take the whole plot of the manga it is all aimed at preserving the pair.
Well this as the law of conservation of energy.
Have ability to make some fluctuations - Medaka-2 for example.
But in the long run destroy this pair impossible.

In fact, many times I have tried to prove that the other pair for Medaka can not be.
Just because she needs on completely opposite entity.
Medaka and Zen is like two different charge.
Zen is an ordinary person who acquires unusual features through many and many work.
But by nature he is an ordinary man.
Among the characters in the manga there is no other like him.
Medaka is a "non-human", which aims to become a human.
Zen for Medaka create a direction of vector.
Medaka for Zen is the only incentive to develop.
This pair worked together on the story.
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Old 2012-12-10, 17:49   Link #11397
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
What is even more annoying (and amazing) is that despite Medaka Box being a parody manga, it actually succeeds at being just like the very manga it is parody. Granted it has always been this way but still for every trope it mocks, it always plays them completely straight in its own strange manner. Medaka and Zenikichi aren't good each other yet it has been enforced throughout the whole manga. Zenikichi much like everything revolves around Medaka and Medaka just doesn't know it.
Mostly agreed. I think what you mean to say is that despite being a parody/subversion of a very great number of things, Medaka Box still persists in trying to sell us some unbelievably cliche material. There are some ways in which Medaka Box is an extremely smart and enjoyable parody -- but others in which it embodies the very worst and most boring of what shounen has to offer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ccie20012 View Post
Wolfenstein
Well said.
I would say - that's my cue.
I wanted to write it before.
It's a simple equation: Medaka x Zenikichi = love (const).
In fact, if we take the whole plot of the manga it is all aimed at preserving the pair.
Well this as the law of conservation of energy.
Have ability to make some fluctuations - Medaka-2 for example.
But in the long run destroy this pair impossible.

In fact, many times I have tried to prove that the other pair for Medaka can not be.
Just because she needs on completely opposite entity.
Medaka and Zen is like two different charge.
Zen is an ordinary person who acquires unusual features through many and many work.
But by nature he is an ordinary man.
Among the characters in the manga there is no other like him.
Medaka is a "non-human", which aims to become a human.
Zen for Medaka create a direction of vector.
Medaka for Zen is the only incentive to develop.
This pair worked together on the story.
Haha. Just because Medaka and Zenkichi have always been "in love" with each other does not mean it must always be true. In fact, it is precisely because they have always been in love with each other that character development demands they grow up and move on. The fantasy of everlasting childhood loves is one of the most artificial constructs of fiction, and it's well beyond the time for Nishio to give up on the farce of trying to sell it.

You say that "by nature" Zenkichi is an ordinary man, so I ask you: how can an "ordinary" man teach a monster to be human? Though you believe that Zenkichi will always stand strong in being ordinary, you must ask: then why does he love Medaka, who is not ordinary? Do you not think that Zenkichi's love/desire/admiration for Medaka shows that what he hopes/believes in is not ordinary? In fact, it is the nature of the "ordinary" man to helplessly reach for the extraordinary. If it is the extraordinary Medaka whom he loves, it is clear that Zenkichi cannot help her become ordinary.

You must also ask: why do we assume that Medaka wishes to become human in the first place? In what sense for her does becoming "ordinary" matter? The answer is simple: as an extraordinary being, Medaka has by nature always been alone. The reason Medaka wishes to become "ordinary" and connect with humans is to overcome her loneliness. However, in that case, does Medaka even need to become ordinary? Since, from the time she was 2 years old, hasn't Medaka believed that Zenkichi will be beside her, that she isn't alone, already anyway? Because Zenkichi will always love Medaka no matter if she is not ordinary (rather, Zenkichi loves Medaka precisely because she was not ordinary), if she is happy with that she has no reason to ever become human.

As anybody can see, Medaka x Zenkichi has nothing whatsoever to do with Medaka becoming more human. If Medaka married Zenkichi today, you could end the manga right there, because it would completely end all of their growth as characters. Medaka has been emotionally dependent on Zenkichi since the beginning of the manga, and even earlier, just as Zenkichi has been obsessed with her. To end the manga with them being in love with each other would be to write a story where absolutely nothing changed and nothing happened.


Haha, and also, I should say this. If Medaka is a monster, so that she needs her opposite to become human and put an end to her loneliness. Then that opposite is Kumagawa, who is the most human character of all. If Medaka's monstrosity is her inhumanly perfect strengths, then Kumagawa's humanity is his universally imperfect weaknesses. After all, that is why we love Kumagawa, isn't it? Because his feelings, all of his envy, despair, hatred, pettiness, and pervertedness, are exactly the same as our own.
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Old 2012-12-10, 18:13   Link #11398
kenjtr
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Yeah we know you like medaka x kumagawa pair but efen if medaka x zenkichi doesnt happen ( i hope ) , i dont see medaka and kumagawa being together .
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Old 2012-12-10, 18:22   Link #11399
Mars Mode
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No I love kumagawa because he is crazy good.

You may say Zenkichi loves Medaka for being abnormal, and he has been one or the major factor that has kept her human. Even if someone else was behind it, Zenkichi always kept her anchored on Earth.

We may never understand it. Medaka may love him for all the time they have spent together and all of their memories together and not because he is ordinary. Since she can remember everything.

And Zenkichi may be an evolution of admiration to love. Since he was a child he always thought of Medaka as a special person to him.

We can overcomplicate things or oversimplify things to suit or needs.
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Old 2012-12-10, 19:54   Link #11400
ccie20012
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Sol Falling
Ha-ha.
1)
What Medaka and Zen changed over 17x manga chapters it is a well known fact.
I'm not going to quote.
Suffice it to recall why Hansode Shiranui left the academy.
Why Zenkichi Hitoyoshi is current President Student Council.
All key events manga related to changes in Medaka and Zen.
Yes, now you simply have to go ("technically") to a point of a wedding Medaka x Zen.
There are some characters whose problems are to be solved.
2)
After all, that is why we love Kumagawa, isn't it?
Hmm .. I love Kumagawa only together with Najimi Ajimu.
She is the only one able to "tell" Kumagawa - "Know your place".
They are the second perfect pair.
Kumagawa x Medaka - it's terrible.
Kumagawa x Ajimu - that's fine.
By the way I love Ajimu, so I do not see anything offensive in this pair for fans Kumagawa.
The main thing that she returned to the manga.

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