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Old 2012-12-10, 12:31   Link #5421
SoloPanda
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IMO divine possession = youth, since they receive the power from a third party. If we talk about the strength of them without receiving outside help I think they are relatively even.
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Old 2012-12-10, 13:19   Link #5422
m4rc0s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
That spell she has lets her use an imperfect form of the ability that let her equal Ena. She's stronger than the first time they fought, certainly, but not enough to close the gap.
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Originally Posted by Yye1 View Post
no, i think it is ena > erica = lily > yuri, cuz ena still has her divine possesion ability
the imperfect form was in volume 6-7 because the version she used at that time was one that she learned when she was children and only read the book a little to learn about the word's of David ( don't know if the name is correct but is the other spell that Erica-Lily always use) she went to ask Salvatore to give her the book and now she know the complete spell. as you can see from the novel text, below.
"For the undisputed premier Hime-Miko, Seishuuin Ena, Erica was her first true opponent. Most likely, they will continue being rivals for the rest of their lives.

In the past, Ena did not sense Erica holding back on a hidden trump card.

Purely in terms of dormant potential, even the prodigy Erica could not match a user of divine possession.

That was what Ena had always thought. However, what about now? And henceforth? Somehow, Ena's instincts were warning her.
Back when Ama no Murakumo no Tsurugi was rampaging out of control at Chidorigafuchi, and also in the battle against the Great Sage Equaling Heaven, Erica had received Verethragna's protection, allowing her to face off against Ena and the Great Sage.

"It is fine, Erica-san. Your new power , it should be a trump card that stands on equal ground with divine possession."

from novel volume 9 chapter 6
from the novel you can see that the paladin spell(The spell words of smiting) is on the same ground on the divine possession in power they can be equal but the possession need help from a god but Erica power can be used by herself, so you may disagrees but in my point she is far stronger than the current Ena.
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Originally Posted by SoloPanda View Post
IMO divine possession = youth, since they receive the power from a third party. If we talk about the strength of them without receiving outside help I think they are relatively even.
just like i said above, Ena power depends on a god,but Erica can use her smiting now without anyone help,so she is stronger..

Last edited by m4rc0s; 2012-12-10 at 14:08.
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Old 2012-12-10, 16:12   Link #5423
erdii
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Originally Posted by m4rc0s View Post
the imperfect form was in volume 6-7 because the version she used at that time was one that she learned when she was children and only read the book a little to learn about the word's of David ( don't know if the name is correct but is the other spell that Erica-Lily always use) she went to ask Salvatore to give her the book and now she know the complete spell. as you can see from the novel text, below.
"For the undisputed premier Hime-Miko, Seishuuin Ena, Erica was her first true opponent. Most likely, they will continue being rivals for the rest of their lives.

In the past, Ena did not sense Erica holding back on a hidden trump card.

Purely in terms of dormant potential, even the prodigy Erica could not match a user of divine possession.

That was what Ena had always thought. However, what about now? And henceforth? Somehow, Ena's instincts were warning her.
Back when Ama no Murakumo no Tsurugi was rampaging out of control at Chidorigafuchi, and also in the battle against the Great Sage Equaling Heaven, Erica had received Verethragna's protection, allowing her to face off against Ena and the Great Sage.

"It is fine, Erica-san. Your new power , it should be a trump card that stands on equal ground with divine possession."

from novel volume 9 chapter 6
from the novel you can see that the paladin spell(The spell words of smiting) is on the same ground on the divine possession in power they can be equal but the possession need help from a god but Erica power can be used by herself, so you may disagrees but in my point she is far stronger than the current Ena.

just like i said above, Ena power depends on a god,but Erica can use her smiting now without anyone help,so she is stronger..
ı don't agree this. Erica's technique take to much time and need too much power. Ena doesn't take much time to use Divine possesion. if she has Ama no murakomo with her ı don't think Erica can overpower her. in my eyes Ena still has adventage. if you say Erica is stronger than Ena then it mean Liliana is stronger than Ena. since Erica and Liliana are equal in magic and martial arts. they both use the same technique.

in my eyes Divine possesion is more effective compared to spell of Smiting. Ena can use Godou's divine power's as source and can use diffrent gods power as divine possesion owner. well that is just a theory from the way she used Ama no murakomo's divine power which is at Godou's possesion
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Old 2012-12-10, 16:18   Link #5424
Awrya
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Originally Posted by erdii View Post
ı don't agree this. Erica's technique take to much time and need too much power. Ena doesn't take much time to use Divine possesion. if she has Ama no murakomo with her ı don't think Erica can overpower her. in my eyes Ena still has adventage. if you say Erica is stronger than Ena then it mean Liliana is stronger than Ena. since Erica and Liliana are equal in magic and martial arts. they both use the same technique.

in my eyes Divine possesion is more effective compared to spell of Smiting. Ena can use Godou's divine power's as source and can use diffrent gods power as divine possesion owner. well that is just a theory from the way she used Ama no murakomo's divine power which is at Godou's possesion
There was this part where Ena said she has to purify her body in the mountains for 1 week in order to safely use Divine Possession, if not she runs the risk of harming herself.
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Old 2012-12-10, 20:54   Link #5425
m4rc0s
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Originally Posted by erdii View Post
ı don't agree this. Erica's technique take to much time and need too much power. Ena doesn't take much time to use Divine possesion. if she has Ama no murakomo with her ı don't think Erica can overpower her. in my eyes Ena still has adventage. if you say Erica is stronger than Ena then it mean Liliana is stronger than Ena. since Erica and Liliana are equal in magic and martial arts. they both use the same technique.

in my eyes Divine possesion is more effective compared to spell of Smiting. Ena can use Godou's divine power's as source and can use diffrent gods power as divine possesion owner. well that is just a theory from the way she used Ama no murakomo's divine power which is at Godou's possesion
first, LIliana and Erica is not equal anymore if you read the novel will see that the pact they made was for Erica go get the book to learn the spell of smiting and came back to teach Liliana, in the end of volume 9-10 Erica is much more strong than Liliana because if you put Erica smiting spell in 75% complete liliana is at max 50%..
now let me start with the first fight (Erica x Ena) Ena was winning but was not so much stronger than Erica(the reason she lost so miserably was because the astral world made her use all her magic really fast, but yes she lost).
about the time to conjure in the novel they say that the spell of smiting allow the user to chant the spell and fight simultaneously in this case defend against Ena . Erica can always run a little to make time to conjure the smiting and we dont even know that her really need a long time , in the volume 9 fight she start attacking without any plan because she was forced to leave the area to not involve Ena that was damaged by divine possession.
and we know that Erica is good at creating plans just look at the volume 1 against athena.(ps: hide and wait a opportunity to give the finishing blow is also a plan)
now i am saying that Erica is stronger than Ena and her divine possesion (susano) in the battle you can see that she always use de susano possession if you insist that she use Ama no murakomo (godou authority) is fair to let Erica use the youth (that is one of godou authority).
i will not even start with the problems that divine possession has because in theory she can become even a god in power level (and die ,lol).
and to finish i think the same as you divine possesion is far more strong than smiting(and alot more troublesome too) but what i am saying is that Erica is stronger than Ena and not that the Divine possesion is weaker than smiting.
"It is fine, Erica-san. Your new power , it should be a trump card that stands on equal ground with divine possession." volume 9 chapter 6
is Yuri who said, not me i am just saying that the current Erica can win against the current Ena in a fair fight and by fair fight i mean that is ERICA X ENA(+ susano ) not Erica x Ena(susano)+ godou(Ama no murakomo) because like i said above if she use her divine possesion + godou to be fair we must let Erica use the youth .
and without the youth Ena can not use the godou possession what do she does with Ama no murakomo is not divine possession she just let the sword move her body , all the divinity is comming from susano.
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Old 2012-12-10, 22:03   Link #5426
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This argument is getting ridicules about who is stronger. M4rc0s you made excellent points, but so have erdii. In context in the story, nevertheless Erica's power come solely from Magical power while Ena's divine possession is a divinity power. It has been noted that Divinity comes from Gods and Divine beasts, Campiones wield divinity power as well. Divinity outclasses Magical powers no matter which tier of magical power it is, as it stands Ena is currently stronger than the Knights and Prodigies of the Copper Black Cross and Bronze Black Cross. Also on your quote you missed "Your new power — as long as it can be controlled well, it should be a trump card that stands on equal ground with divine possession." Erica and Liliana are known to be strong and knows that Ena is ranked as what is called a Paladino, Saint Raffaello, Erica's uncle Paolo Blandelli, and Black Prince's Sir Iceman are the only one ranks with that class thus far. Erica and Liliana still lack the control of those three while Ena in her Divine state can fight on par with one of those in a one on one battle. Ena's limitation is not her being unable to control her Divine possession, but is her human body limitation which seems to be lessening as the story goes on base off spoilers.
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Old 2012-12-10, 22:46   Link #5427
m4rc0s
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Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
This argument is getting ridicules about who is stronger. M4rc0s you made excellent points, but so have erdii. In context in the story, nevertheless Erica's power come solely from Magical power while Ena's divine possession is a divinity power. It has been noted that Divinity comes from Gods and Divine beasts, Campiones wield divinity power as well. Divinity outclasses Magical powers no matter which tier of magical power it is, as it stands Ena is currently stronger than the Knights and Prodigies of the Copper Black Cross and Bronze Black Cross. Also on your quote you missed "Your new power ó as long as it can be controlled well, it should be a trump card that stands on equal ground with divine possession." Erica and Liliana are known to be strong and knows that Ena is ranked as what is called a Paladino, Saint Raffaello, Erica's uncle Paolo Blandelli, and Black Prince's Sir Iceman are the only one ranks with that class thus far. Erica and Liliana still lack the control of those three while Ena in her Divine state can fight on par with one of those in a one on one battle. Ena's limitation is not her being unable to control her Divine possession, but is her human body limitation which seems to be lessening as the story goes on base off spoilers.
I know that but what I mean is that is not always that the most powerful wins the fight. As said before Ena "Divine possession" is more powerful but this same limitation that you spoke to is what would make her lose, see all the fights until now (volume10) Ena really demonstrated incredible power but after all the battle she is always seriously injured and often not finish the fight.
Ena's power is so strong that it make her weak. is not that Erica is stronger is just that she would win.

i hope you understand my view because most of time(99.99%) is really hard to me write in english because i am teaching myself and not always the thing i want to say is said correct.
and i will accept you sugestion and stop this argument .
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Old 2012-12-10, 23:10   Link #5428
ReaperxKingx
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Originally Posted by m4rc0s View Post
I know that but what I mean is that is not always that the most powerful wins the fight. As said before Ena "Divine possession" is more powerful but this same limitation that you spoke to is what would make her lose, see all the fights until now (volume10) Ena really demonstrated incredible power but after all the battle she is always seriously injured and often not finish the fight.
Ena's power is so strong that it make her weak. is not that Erica is stronger is just that she would win.

i hope you understand my view because most of time(99.99%) is really hard to me write in english because i am teaching myself and not always the thing i want to say is said correct.
and i will accept you sugestion and stop this argument .
I understand that, even though I want to say something else to show you my point I will leave it there. For now we must find a new type of discussion.
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Old 2012-12-11, 00:26   Link #5429
kazzuya13
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Erica and Liliana are not completely equal in each stats for example Erica is excellent in the spell of Smithing however she doesn't have a witch disposition unlike Liliana and that what makes them equal. It is like they both have a disadvantage and advantage with each other so if they were to be put together and they will look equal.
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Old 2012-12-11, 05:17   Link #5430
erdii
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well all of the girls has yet to control their power. we will have to wait what they will offer us in term of power in following volumes.
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Old 2012-12-12, 00:35   Link #5431
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I have a question about whether Godou has gotten any new authorities aside from ones he first got from God of Victory. I get that in the fights with Athena(let her go), Perseus(survived then killed by Doni), and Sun Wukong(Only died because had two campiones helping) he didn't get authorities from those. But what of other gods where he won of his own strength, like with Lancelot?
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Old 2012-12-12, 01:31   Link #5432
kuroishinigami
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Got NTR'ed by Guinevere for Lancelot. There's been hints that he'll get a new one from Circe, but we'll have to wait for new volume to be sure.
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Old 2012-12-12, 02:48   Link #5433
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Lancelot originally belonged to Guinevere so no NTR here.
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Old 2012-12-12, 03:51   Link #5434
Hidfe
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Originally Posted by noobarta View Post
I have a question about whether Godou has gotten any new authorities aside from ones he first got from God of Victory. I get that in the fights with Athena(let her go), Perseus(survived then killed by Doni), and Sun Wukong(Only died because had two campiones helping) he didn't get authorities from those. But what of other gods where he won of his own strength, like with Lancelot?
He would have gotten one from Sun Wukong as well as the other 2 Campione there but the authorities were stolen by Guinevere.

He would have gotten the authority of Lancelot as well but the authority got stolen by Guinevere as well.

The King of the End will probably have all the stolen authorities and after he defeats him he will get them back but this will probably be the end of the story.

And in Vol 13
Spoiler for Vol 13:
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Old 2012-12-12, 08:45   Link #5435
kazzuya13
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Originally Posted by Hidfe View Post
He would have gotten one from Sun Wukong as well as the other 2 Campione there but the authorities were stolen by Guinevere.

He would have gotten the authority of Lancelot as well but the authority got stolen by Guinevere as well.

The King of the End will probably have all the stolen authorities and after he defeats him he will get them back but this will probably be the end of the story.

And in Vol 13
Spoiler for Vol 13:
And here I thought that Pandora is on Godou's side. I wish that Pandora's husband show up in the future.
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Old 2012-12-12, 10:02   Link #5436
Yye1
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Pandora does it for the lols
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Old 2012-12-12, 13:35   Link #5437
willx
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Yay, zzhk's finished V11C3! Yay, thanks zzhk!

So, I remain continually annoyed by the author's "messing" with his own "universe" and "system" in such obvious ways. I know he's trying to avoid power creep, but he could do it in a less obvious fashion .. on top of that, he's clearly going against precedents that he set for himself.

Melqart knocks Godou "dead" .. but he's not dead and it's still somehow a draw? He doesn't get an authority? Floating ectoplasm? Seriously?

Outlook is uncertain
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Old 2012-12-12, 13:44   Link #5438
Darth SpiderDen
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
Yay, zzhk's finished V11C3! Yay, thanks zzhk!

So, I remain continually annoyed by the author's "messing" with his own "universe" and "system" in such obvious ways. I know he's trying to avoid power creep, but he could do it in a less obvious fashion .. on top of that, he's clearly going against precedents that he set for himself.

Melqart knocks Godou "dead" .. but he's not dead and it's still somehow a draw? He doesn't get an authority? Floating ectoplasm? Seriously?

Outlook is uncertain
I was feeling real happy when I see Godou finishing off Lancelot on his own (and awsome finish by the way) and expecting him to gain the "Insane Rush" authoriry for himslef (looses self control and resets all his authorities, that would be an awsome addition for him) and then I get a no, denied from Guinivere, aka the author.....
I know Godou already has ten forms he can use in battle and with the Ama no Murakumo he can use a variation of each of those (love everyone of them, can't wait to see what will happen when he uses the variant form of the White Stallion), but by now he should have gained at least another authority.
The only thing I see now is the fact that Athenas gift to him is an extremely powerfull authoriry wich will take some more maturation of his own powers to use but still.....not even Insane Rush?? And half a Authoriry from a God willing to give it to him as she is about to be defeated?
Athenas gift better be amazing, is all I'm saying.

P.S: awsome first use of the White Stallion but seriously? Ectoplasm that could give a final attack? Screw you plot!
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Old 2012-12-12, 13:52   Link #5439
willx
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Yeah, again I understand not wanting power creep .. heck, my gripe isn't with Godou not getting powers or authorities. I just want the story and plot to remain consistent and believable. I know I know, fiction, fantasy story, suspend disbelief .. blah blah ..

My issue thought process is this: "No matter what crazy rules, setting, etc. you come up with to start .. as long as you remain consistent I'm good. If you don't .. "

Reply hazy, ask again later
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Old 2012-12-12, 13:59   Link #5440
Darth SpiderDen
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
Yeah, again I understand not wanting power creep .. heck, my gripe isn't with Godou not getting powers or authorities. I just want the story and plot to remain consistent and believable. I know I know, fiction, fantasy story, suspend disbelief .. blah blah ..

My issue thought process is this: "No matter what crazy rules, setting, etc. you come up with to start .. as long as you remain consistent I'm good. If you don't .. "

Reply hazy, ask again later
At least the other Campiones are not gaining new authorities as well.
It's consistent on that part.
Then again all of the Campiones look like unbeatble badasses and 1 grand schemer (Alec of course), that anymore authorities would make them OP in some aspects....
Then again, they do have to battle Gods and other Campiones on regular basis so being OP is just going to be a little help on the battles...

I love a story were being OP and God-like is just basic for the characters.
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