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View Poll Results: Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 11 Rating
Perfect 10 11 23.40%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 16 34.04%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 21.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 6 12.77%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 4.26%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 4.26%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-12-10, 11:22   Link #101
Solace
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Keep the novel talk out of the thread.
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Old 2012-12-10, 11:31   Link #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momonae View Post
I don't remember the novel or anime said the society expects adolescents to have a same-sex lover.
A few episodes back, we saw that almost everybody in this school was paired off with a same-sex lover. Mamoru was the only exception I noticed, and that's because of how massively committed he is to Maria.

Now, you have an official procedure by which each person is paired off with someone of the opposite sex. Why is this kept until adulthood? Why the sudden, widespread change from homosexual relationships to heterosexual relationships?

We know this is a tightly controlled society. So I think that the implications, at this point, are clear.


Quote:
By the way, I'm surprised so many people care about the characters so much. For me, this anime/novel is uniquely interesting because the characters didn't interest me at all, at least until the very end of the novel.
Honestly, what you're writing here makes no sense at all to me.

Yes, I can get how a fictional world can be interesting/fascinating in and of itself, and that certainly is the case with Shin Sekai Yori. But there's no way I could care about such a world unless I cared about at least some of the characters in it.
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Old 2012-12-10, 12:12   Link #103
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
In fact, it reminds me of the old idea of girls having "play romances" with each other to prepare for "real" romances with guys (I've heard this idea being the basis for some shoujo-ai and yuri narratives).
You're probably thinking about what are known as "class-S" relationships which became popular in Japanese fiction for schoolgirls at the beginning of the twentieth century. That Wiki article observes:
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Originally Posted by Wikipedia
This type of romance was typically seen as fleeting and more of a phase in growing up rather than true homosexual behavior; as long as these relationships remained confined to adolescence they were regarded as normal, even spiritual. These relationships were common, and it has been proposed that eight out of ten schoolgirls had Class S relationships.
Maria-sama ga Miteru is often seen as a modern version of the class-S genre. The first episode of Mouryou no Hako also portrays a class-S romance.
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Old 2012-12-10, 13:05   Link #104
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Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
It is no surprise that all the adult know the truth (albeit they might not now all the finer details), they consider teenagers to be emotionally unstable (which is not off the mark) and since they are basically killing any child they deem unsuitable (akin to what sparta did) they tamper with their memories so that their stress levels do not skyrocket creating even more unsuitable kids. I suppose there must be a coming of age ceremony (which might be just the formal marriage ceremony) where they get to know the truth since as an adult you have built mechanisms to deal with grief and you must HELP with the charade.
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Yeah, I think it's clear that all of the adults are in on the charade. The adults that survive are those who never got weeded out as kids, so they'll likely be strong people with a good sense of self-discipline, good Cantus mastery, and the ability necessary to not crack under the dark truths of society.
It makes sense that the adults would be in on the charade, but I think at some point in the story it will be necessary to show when the line is drawn. At this point there is no reason to assume that the adults, simply by virtue of being of a certain age, are somehow more in control of their emotions. As we've seen from Saki's parents and their constant emotional outbursts, this doesn't seem to be the case at all. Thus, I would be interested in know at what age the curtain is pulled back.

I mean, the idea of mask-wearing priests doing a "mwhahaha, everything you've known is a lie!" type of speech is admittedly pretty amusing.
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Old 2012-12-10, 16:54   Link #105
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Originally Posted by Rosalena View Post
It makes sense that the adults would be in on the charade, but I think at some point in the story it will be necessary to show when the line is drawn. At this point there is no reason to assume that the adults, simply by virtue of being of a certain age, are somehow more in control of their emotions. As we've seen from Saki's parents and their constant emotional outbursts, this doesn't seem to be the case at all. Thus, I would be interested in know at what age the curtain is pulled back.
Why not? Adults in general are able to manage their emotions better than teenagers. It's a fact. The problem with telling teenagers the horrible truth is that their emotions are far too volatile at this age, there's no telling how they'd react. Adults should have enough maturity to handle it better. Not to mention, teenagers are still in danger of being removed, so telling them everything would only increase their stress and create more karma demons. Better to wait until they're permanent members of society before revealing to them they could have been killed at any moment if they had slipped up.

If I were in that kind of situation, I personally would rather be kept in the dark until I'm safe.
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Old 2012-12-10, 17:20   Link #106
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
A few episodes back, we saw that almost everybody in this school was paired off with a same-sex lover. Mamoru was the only exception I noticed, and that's because of how massively committed he is to Maria.

Now, you have an official procedure by which each person is paired off with someone of the opposite sex. Why is this kept until adulthood? Why the sudden, widespread change from homosexual relationships to heterosexual relationships?

We know this is a tightly controlled society. So I think that the implications, at this point, are clear.
I understand that the pairs are designed to wean them off of homosexual relationships, but I don't think the homosexual pairs they had were encouraged or promoted by the adults. The adults only promoted sexual freedom and the children formed homosexual relationships on their own. For example, Mamoru clearly had eyes only for Maria, and both Saki and Shun swung both ways.

That's different from the current class pairs, where the adults are officially pushing for heterosexual relationships.
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Old 2012-12-10, 17:26   Link #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Mamoru was the only exception I noticed, and that's because of how massively committed he is to Maria.
That's once unique characteristic of Mamoru. If it's not Maria, I'll be a monk.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Now, you have an official procedure by which each person is paired off with someone of the opposite sex. Why is this kept until adulthood? Why the sudden, widespread change from homosexual relationships to heterosexual relationships?
This is another ridiculous part. Why start and halt a procedure in an instant? These people aren't Love Rats in a laboratory...

They are basically playing with peoples lives,and people's sexual preference... hehehe. Look at what they done. Homosexual relationship is over yet Maria is still didn't recover yet.... hahaha
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Old 2012-12-10, 17:28   Link #108
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
The adults only promoted sexual freedom and the children formed homosexual relationships on their own.
No, in the novel there was a specific reason for homosexual parings until adulthood. I don't know why the anime skipped over this. Maybe they thought it didn't need explanation and it would be enough to show how things work. Clearly it wasn't enough though.
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Old 2012-12-10, 17:32   Link #109
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
No, in the novel there was a specific reason for homosexual parings until adulthood. I don't know why the anime skipped over this. Maybe they thought it didn't need explanation.
i think that reason can be explained later (i think there are a couple of events that would fit), even though i'm not a novel-reader so i'm not sure
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Old 2012-12-10, 17:38   Link #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
I understand that the pairs are designed to wean them off of homosexual relationships, but I don't think the homosexual pairs they had were encouraged or promoted by the adults. The adults only promoted sexual freedom and the children formed homosexual relationships on their own. For example, Mamoru clearly had eyes only for Maria, and both Saki and Shun swung both ways.

That's different from the current class pairs, where the adults are officially pushing for heterosexual relationships.
There's a good answer I can give to this, but it might be considered spoilerrific. So if you want me to share it with you, please ask, and I'll do it over PMs.

But yeah, Kazu-kun is right here. The anime really goofed on this one thing. The anime probably thought that people would read between the lines, but no, it's not happening.
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Old 2012-12-10, 18:03   Link #111
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
This is another ridiculous part. Why start and halt a procedure in an instant? These people aren't Love Rats in a laboratory...

They are basically playing with peoples lives,and people's sexual preference... hehehe.
"If a technological feat is possible, man will do it. Almost as if it's wired into the core of our being." - Major Motoko Kusanagi GitS

They have the means to accomplish it and they must have a reason, whether it is a good reason it will probably be upon up to debate when it is shown. If it is not shown or hinted at, heck, we will need people that read the novel to tell us.

Quote:
Look at what they done. Homosexual relationship is over yet Maria is still didn't recover yet.... hahaha
I am surprised at how hard it it is for some people to accept Maria is lesbian. Saki obviously is bisexual or maybe just playful and intimate with Maria (we haven't seen her look for other partners like Satoru did), just the same as Mamoru is totally heterosexual. There is a limit at how far hypnosis can affect a person behavior.

A bit of real life investigation on the matter of hetereo/homo sexuality
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Old 2012-12-10, 19:39   Link #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
I am surprised at how hard it it is for some people to accept Maria is lesbian.
I know Maria is lesbian for your information. That was a joke. In regards Saki's sexual preferences... She could be bisexual. The question is, does she look at herself as bi? I have doubts.. She might loved Shun but her relationship with Maria in her state of mind is just "normal"... e.g. similar to hugging...

Now I think of it.. Sex between same sex in their age is considered the same when they're adult?
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Old 2012-12-10, 20:15   Link #113
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Sooo.... this far into the thread, I hope we've already gotten over the obligatory "omg bonobos!" and "the sexual aspect is the single most important part of this show!" part.... *looks above* Oh, we have not? Ah.

OK, my own addition to that: poor Satoru was kind of left out of the loop there. xD I hoped they'd let him in on the kissing, too, but I can see why they're pushing the Saki & Maria aspect. (Also, the scene with boys despairing in the background when Maria chose Mamoru was hilarious.)

Anyway, I would just like to take this opportunity to diverge a little from the usual topic...

1) The seiyuu of the main characters are doing a great job so far. Now that they've settled into their "older teen" voices, both Saki and Maria have a very, very pretty voice that I could listen to all day (and I'm usually neutral about female seiyuu). As for the boys, people seem to have a hate-on for Kaji Yuuki for some reason, but I think he has a great voice, especially for this type of character, and I love what he's doing with Satoru so far. (I mean, not much, because screentime and everything, but still. I can't wait to hear adult!Satoru.) And while I don't think I've ever heard of Murase Ayumu before, he was great in ep 10. He seems to be a total rookie, but he did an awesome job carrying the episode, and I hope I'll hear him again in other shows.

The only one who I think is kind of miscast is Mamoru... or rather, not miscast per se, but rather, very predictably cast to the point where he kind of stands out and not in a good way. I hoped they wouldn't give him the clichéd "sort of effeminate, child-like falsetto" voice treatment. (I really wish characters like him weren't pigeonholed as far as voice goes...) It's even more distracting with Satoru's speech being made rougher and more "macho" than in the book, so there's an even larger contrast between them.

The part where Mamoru almost broke down was nice, though. I hope he (I mean the seiyuu) will stay on this track.

2) The outfits. Have I mentioned yet how much I love the outfits in this series? I've loved the school uniforms since ep 1, they're kind of familiar but also a bit traditional and yet unique. Really nice. The summer camp outfits were also very nice, and the coats and headgear in this ep were adorable. Maria's earmuff thingie was the cutest earmuff thingie ever, and I want Satoru's coat. If they ever release merchandise for this show I want the clothes. (The fashion sense so far gives me hope that we won't have to suffer the sight of Satoru in an Aloha shirt and he'll wear something nicer. *keeps hoping*)
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Old 2012-12-10, 23:24   Link #114
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Guys, I think we need to drop the whole bonobo discussion. That horse is as dead as Shun and Reiko.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
1) The seiyuu of the main characters are doing a great job so far. Now that they've settled into their "older teen" voices, both Saki and Maria have a very, very pretty voice that I could listen to all day (and I'm usually neutral about female seiyuu). As for the boys, people seem to have a hate-on for Kaji Yuuki for some reason, but I think he has a great voice, especially for this type of character, and I love what he's doing with Satoru so far. (I mean, not much, because screentime and everything, but still. I can't wait to hear adult!Satoru.) And while I don't think I've ever heard of Murase Ayumu before, he was great in ep 10. He seems to be a total rookie, but he did an awesome job carrying the episode, and I hope I'll hear him again in other shows.
Shhhh, the forum's been pretty quiet on the Kaji hate lately, so don't bring it up.

I agree on this completely though, they've been doing a great job, though I wonder if they'll have a new voice for adult Satoru. Saki's already guaranteed to have Aya Endo's sexy voice after the next time skip so they might give the guys new voices? I'm also looking forward to hearing Murase take on more roles from here on. He looks pretty young though, I can't imagine how extra awkward the recording session of ep8 would have been.

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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
2) The outfits. Have I mentioned yet how much I love the outfits in this series? I've loved the school uniforms since ep 1, they're kind of familiar but also a bit traditional and yet unique. Really nice. The summer camp outfits were also very nice, and the coats and headgear in this ep were adorable. Maria's earmuff thingie was the cutest earmuff thingie ever, and I want Satoru's coat. If they ever release merchandise for this show I want the clothes. (The fashion sense so far gives me hope that we won't have to suffer the sight of Satoru in an Aloha shirt and he'll wear something nicer. *keeps hoping*)
Seconded. The outfits look great. I'd love to have Satoru's winter outfi- wait, what? Satoru in an Aloha shirt?
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Old 2012-12-11, 04:53   Link #115
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
But yeah, Kazu-kun is right here. The anime really goofed on this one thing. The anime probably thought that people would read between the lines, but no, it's not happening.
What? I thought it was perfectly obvious when taking in context of the previous episodes, perhaps people just aren't thinking things through properly and instead expect everything to be explained.
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Old 2012-12-11, 05:11   Link #116
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
A few episodes back, we saw that almost everybody in this school was paired off with a same-sex lover. Mamoru was the only exception I noticed, and that's because of how massively committed he is to Maria.
It's not really that suddenly "almost everybody in this school was paired off with a same-sex lover". It's the anime's fault if many people are misguided into thinking that way or adolescent homosexuality is encouraged by the authorities.

Quote:
Now, you have an official procedure by which each person is paired off with someone of the opposite sex. Why is this kept until adulthood? Why the sudden, widespread change from homosexual relationships to heterosexual relationships?
If you mean 当番委員の振り分け by "an officail procedure", it's not "an official procedure by which each person is paired off with someone of the opposite sex" but "virtually official event in which they confess their love."

Quote:
We know this is a tightly controlled society. So I think that the implications, at this point, are clear.
Yes, many things are supposed to be controlled, but what makes you think "Adolescents in this society are expected to have a same-sex lover or lovers" and "Relationships are generally monogamous"?
I think there is none but it's difficult to explain why when you can't quote what is written in the novel. The anime is so far very faithful to the novel, only it seems that it doesn't have enough budget and episodes, and maybe in some respects lacks skills needed in anime adaptation. And I think it will remain to be faithful until the end supposing the novel is rather a serious SF and it's aired on TV asahi, so I don't think they have brought in the anime's original settings either.

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Honestly, what you're writing here makes no sense at all to me.

Yes, I can get how a fictional world can be interesting/fascinating in and of itself, and that certainly is the case with Shin Sekai Yori. But there's no way I could care about such a world unless I cared about at least some of the characters in it.
I mean even in a supposedly objectively written story like biography, I often sense the writer's favoritism toward the characters within so you can often empathize with them or like or dislike them. But I largely didn't sense that in Shin Sekai-yori, maybe it's the author's style of storytelling, but I don't know, my speculation on that would become a spoiler.
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Old 2012-12-11, 05:17   Link #117
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Originally Posted by Kakkou View Post
I agree on this completely though, they've been doing a great job, though I wonder if they'll have a new voice for adult Satoru. Saki's already guaranteed to have Aya Endo's sexy voice after the next time skip so they might give the guys new voices?
I hope not! :/ I'm already a bit "meh" on Saki's voice change.

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Originally Posted by Kakkou View Post
I'm also looking forward to hearing Murase take on more roles from here on. He looks pretty young though, I can't imagine how extra awkward the recording session of ep8 would have been.
Oh my. Well, at least he has lots of opportunities? He was great in this role, the raw pain in his voice after poor Subaru died was awesome. (I guess a pet dying is something many people can relate to. I also felt sorry for the poor killer kitties.)

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Originally Posted by Kakkou View Post
Satoru in an Aloha shirt?
Yes.

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Originally Posted by momonae View Post
If you mean 当番委員の振り分け by "an officail procedure", it's not "an official procedure by which each person is paired off with someone of the opposite sex" but "virtually official event in which they confess their love."
Btw, while the anime didn't mention this because it's irrelevant to the story at hand, it's not necessarily male/female groups only. Yes, it's supposed to be, but given that there are never the exact same number of boys and girls, they also have same sex pairs and groups of three.
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Old 2012-12-11, 05:49   Link #118
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It's not really that suddenly "almost everybody in this school was paired off with a same-sex lover". It's the anime's fault if many people are misguided into thinking that way or adolescent homosexuality is encouraged by the authorities.
There's this strange land where there are only two types of edible food: Apples and Oranges. You tell the youth of that land to eat freely, and to their heart's content, but you also tell them that they may not eat any Apples. Is that not essentially encouraging them to eat Oranges?

I certainly don't think it's misguided to come to that conclusion. In fact, it seems quite logical to me.


Quote:
Yes, many things are supposed to be controlled, but what makes you think "Adolescents in this society are expected to have a same-sex lover or lovers" and "Relationships are generally monogamous"?
Um, because we don't see anybody having more than one sexual partner at a time. Saki and Maria seem perfectly monogamous with one another. Satoru seemed perfectly monogamous with Shun until Shun dumped him. Shun seemed perfectly monogamous while he was with Satoru.

To the extent that we see their unnamed peers, they're portrayed in groups of two. They're portrayed as romantic couples, in other words. I don't recall ever seeing a group of three all holding hands, for example.
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Old 2012-12-11, 05:59   Link #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
There's this strange land where there are only two types of edible food: Apples and Oranges. You tell the youth of that land to eat freely, and to their heart's content, but you also tell them that they may not eat any Apples. Is that not essentially encouraging them to eat Oranges?
You tell them that they may not eat any Apples. They're allowed to stare at the Apples, to touch the Apples, to love one Apple or even more, but when it comes to crossing a certain line they can only do that with Windo-- Andro-- Oranges.

(I think people are approaching this from an "either-or" perspective and not the intended "and.")
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Old 2012-12-11, 06:01   Link #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Um, because we don't see anybody having more than one sexual partner at a time. Saki and Maria seem perfectly monogamous with one another. Satoru seemed perfectly monogamous with Shun until Shun dumped him. Shun seemed perfectly monogamous while he was with Satoru.
Will they still be considered monogamous after the recent pairing? Especially in Maria's case, or when they already have children.. What would this imply...?
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