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Old 2012-12-10, 21:10   Link #521
Kirarakim
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Join Date: Aug 2007
I know Haru has genuine issues. I know he had a hard past. I think Haru is ultimately a good person.

However while I don't think he would ever hurt Shizuku purposely, I can't say I am thrilled with the line about wanting to tear off her arms and legs and then because he can't do that to her he threatens Yamaken. Things like that bother me.

Haru and Mitty certainly have sweet moments but its hard for me to get invested in their relationship because of Haru's behavior. It just doesn't work for me. I honestly don't see it as romantic at all but problematic.

Yamaken of course is not perfect either. He's too arrogant for his own good, but I have a weakness for unrequited love stories. And well I don't know I kind of enjoy how his arrogance is being brought down a notch or two because of his attraction to Shizuku.


Anyways manga readers could someone please tell me what chapter this latest episode corresponds to exactly? I am going to miss next week's episode and so I don't go through withdrawal (because despite my criticism I am still highly enjoying the series) I want to start reading the manga from where this episode left off.
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Old 2012-12-10, 21:15   Link #522
Dr. Casey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred
If he had hit the original target, would that have been physical abuse in your opinion, or just an accident? Regardless, his intent was physical harm.
It was physical harm aimed against another person, though. D: You can't call someone a girlfriend beater because they accidentally hit her while aiming for someone else. One could say that Mitty could justifiably break up with Haru just for being violent in general, but that's still a different crime from being abusive towards her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred
Natsume possibly felt even more left out than Haru, and I don't see her beating up her classmates.
You're just not looking hard enough. Haru only wishes he could throw down like Natsume does.

*answers Kim on her wall*
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Old 2012-12-10, 21:27   Link #523
FredFriendly
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Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
It was physical harm aimed against another person, though. D: You can't call someone a girlfriend beater because they accidentally hit her while aiming for someone else. One could say that Mitty could justifiably break up with Haru just for being violent in general, but that's still a different crime from being abusive towards her.
Okay, I might agree with that, in principle. But, how long has it been since they met? How many times has he accidentally physically injured her already? How many times will he accidentally physically injure her before the end of the school year? It's obvious that he hasn't given a second thought about changing they way he acts after injuring her accidentally. How many times will he accidentally physically injure her before she's had enough?
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Old 2012-12-10, 21:30   Link #524
Dr. Casey
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Originally Posted by FredFriendly View Post
Okay, I might agree with that, in principle. But, how long has it been since they met? How many times has he accidentally physically injured her already? How many times will he accidentally physically injure her before the end of the school year? It's obvious that he hasn't given a second thought about changing they way he acts after injuring her accidentally. How many times will he accidentally physically injure her before she's had enough?
Welp, I can't really argue with that, Fred. You make a good argument.
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Old 2012-12-10, 21:37   Link #525
sikvod00
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At this point they're treating Haru's unintentional violence towards Shizuku as a running gag; apparently it's supposed to be funny. The show doesn't seem to be taking it seriously, so I would be surprised if someone really confronts him on the matter. I don't like it either, but I do like that it demonstrates how OP she is. That girl can take blows like a champ!

Also, I'm loving the hilarious expressions they gave Shizuku whenever she unknowingly messed up Yamaken's plans to go out and eat with her.
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Old 2012-12-10, 21:41   Link #526
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by sikvod00 View Post
Also, I'm loving the hilarious expressions they gave Shizuku whenever she unknowingly messed up Yamaken's plans to go out and eat with her.
Ha Ha I loved those too, she looks so adorable slurping her spaghetti.

I hate to say it but this series is reminding me more and more of my feelings for Kare Kano. In that one too I loved the main female protagonist but ended up not really caring for the main male character.

That being said I think Tonari's supporting cast is stronger then Kare Kano (although some may disagree) so that's what is keeping me really invested in this series so far.
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Old 2012-12-10, 21:51   Link #527
mangamuscle
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Shizuku must have a really thick skull, she bended the damn metal can Haru threw at Yamaken! No bumps either. If Shizuku were into karate instead of studying I think she would make mince meat of Haru without breaking a sweat.
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Old 2012-12-10, 22:42   Link #528
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Anyways manga readers could someone please tell me what chapter this latest episode corresponds to exactly? I am going to miss next week's episode and so I don't go through withdrawal (because despite my criticism I am still highly enjoying the series) I want to start reading the manga from where this episode left off.
You can preview the next episode with chapter 16.


Anyway, as for the discussion about physical violence in this series. Or at least, the incidents where Shizuku has gotten harmed on account of Haru's rowdiness. First of all, yes, I agree/do believe that those instances are supposed to portray Shizuku as a strong/independent character. Shizuku's reactions to incidents like those are supposed to portray that despite not being as physically strong as Haru, she can stand up to him. And as for whether Shizuku really can stand up to Haru, not only in a physical sense, but emotionally, interpersonally, I believe that should not even be under question.

Then as for the secondary issue that people keep raising that Haru is just too violent for them to like, or support in a relationship with Shizuku. I have to wonder what they really think the alternatives are. Haru is a broken individual, yes. However, he is not completely beyond conscience or rationality. Even within this episode you saw that although Haru has unhealthy impulses, he is aware that he has to restrain them. In particular, hasn't it been indicated that Haru admires/perceives Shizuku as his saviour/"hero" because she helps him restrain them?

If Shizuku is a demonstrably positive influence on Haru, then what do you think would be achieved by taking her away from him? Shizuku herself is not acting out of charity or any misguided fantasy, so why not trust her to handle herself with her own judgement? To say that Haru should be wrested away from Shizuku, overriding the person in question's own decisions, when Haru's behaviour has been portrayed as understood to be negative and unhealthy even by Haru himself is to suggest that redemption is impossible even when people are willing or even desperate to try for it. And that is an even more troubling perspective for me than treating this series as cheap fantasy.
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Old 2012-12-10, 22:52   Link #529
ReaperxKingx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
You can preview the next episode with chapter 16.


Anyway, as for the discussion about physical violence in this series. Or at least, the incidents where Shizuku has gotten harmed on account of Haru's rowdiness. First of all, yes, I agree/do believe that those instances are supposed to portray Shizuku as a strong/independent character. Shizuku's reactions to incidents like those are supposed to portray that despite not being as physically strong as Haru, she can stand up to him. And as for whether Shizuku really can stand up to Haru, not only in a physical sense, but emotionally, interpersonally, I believe that should not even be under question.

Then as for the secondary issue that people keep raising that Haru is just too violent for them to like, or support in a relationship with Shizuku. I have to wonder what they really think the alternatives are. Haru is a broken individual, yes. However, he is not completely beyond conscience or rationality. Even within this episode you saw that although Haru has unhealthy impulses, he is aware that he has to restrain them. In particular, hasn't it been indicated that Haru admires/perceives Shizuku as his saviour/"hero" because she helps him restrain them?

If Shizuku is a demonstrably positive influence on Haru, then what do you think would be achieved by taking her away from him? Shizuku herself is not acting out of charity or any misguided fantasy, so why not trust her to handle herself with her own judgement? To say that Haru should be wrested away from Shizuku, overriding the person in question's own decisions, when Haru's behaviour has been portrayed as understood to be negative and unhealthy even by Haru himself is to suggest that redemption is impossible even when people are willing or even desperate to try for it. And that is an even more troubling perspective for me than treating this series as cheap fantasy.
I couldn't find words to express it earlier but you are correct. Haru cannot grow as a character without Shizuku, his violent tendency lessen as the series progress from the beginning. Many say he should be able to develop a better behavior, if that was so he would have done so by now even back from middle school. Shizuku is the only one who can help Haru is the results shows later on.
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Old 2012-12-11, 01:35   Link #530
Lota
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Well, it's not an anime/manga about abusive boyfriends so you don't have to worry about that Also, like Haru said, he would never purposely hurt Shizuku. She holds all the power in their relationship, Haru is too scared to say or do anything wrong, because if he did, she would leave him. Holding so much power over him, I think, while Haru does unintentionally hurt her physically sometimes, she hurts him emotionally over and over, something Haru never did to her and I don't think she actually realises it. So, while on surface (I'm only talking about their relationship), it seems that what Haru is doing is a lot worse, both of them are at fault here.

I also think it's kind of unfair if this anime doesnt get a second season. After these 11 episodes most of you dislike Haru, and I admit I don't really like him like that either. But these are the last bits of Haru acting like that. Having read the manga, I know what an awesome character he's become. He has had so much character development and there are few people who dislike Haru at this stage in the manga. I love how they managed to change peoples' opinions of him so much. Generally, you either like the character, or dislike him and it stays that way. So it would be really sad if people only saw Haru acting like... that.
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Old 2012-12-11, 02:31   Link #531
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Ha Ha I loved those too, she looks so adorable slurping her spaghetti.

I hate to say it but this series is reminding me more and more of my feelings for Kare Kano. In that one too I loved the main female protagonist but ended up not really caring for the main male character.

That being said I think Tonari's supporting cast is stronger then Kare Kano (although some may disagree) so that's what is keeping me really invested in this series so far.
I ended up hating the end of Kare Kano when I saw it many years ago. The main guy got creepy and possessive, and just gave me major bad vibes.

No wonder I'm not liking Haru either as there are some similarities.
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Old 2012-12-11, 05:36   Link #532
jte742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lota View Post
Well, it's not an anime/manga about abusive boyfriends so you don't have to worry about that Also, like Haru said, he would never purposely hurt Shizuku. She holds all the power in their relationship, Haru is too scared to say or do anything wrong, because if he did, she would leave him. Holding so much power over him, I think, while Haru does unintentionally hurt her physically sometimes, she hurts him emotionally over and over, something Haru never did to her and I don't think she actually realises it. So, while on surface (I'm only talking about their relationship), it seems that what Haru is doing is a lot worse, both of them are at fault here.

I also think it's kind of unfair if this anime doesnt get a second season. After these 11 episodes most of you dislike Haru, and I admit I don't really like him like that either. But these are the last bits of Haru acting like that. Having read the manga, I know what an awesome character he's become. He has had so much character development and there are few people who dislike Haru at this stage in the manga. I love how they managed to change peoples' oinions of him so much. Generally, you either like the character, or dislike him and it stays that way. So it would be really sad if people only saw Haru acting like... that.
I wouldn't say most people dislike him - I don't particularly. I stopped putting any sort of weight behind Haru's physical actions the moment he jumped out of Micchan's store from three floors up with no ill effects. That told me enough about how exaggerated his character is (at least physically), that the times where he unintentionally hurts Shizuku don't leave much of an impression - since I know that such events are being used only for dramatic purposes (as someone earlier said - to show that Shizuku is Haru's equal). Now, we can get into a whole debate on whether it is appropriate to use physical harm for dramatic purposes (and I suspect that is the sticking point for a lot of people who dislike Haru), but that is outside the scope of this discussion.

With that out of the way, having also read the manga, I agree, unless they skip/combine a lot of the intervening chapters (or have more episodes/a second season already lined up) they are going to end before the best part. There is a lot more development for many of the characters - not just Haru and Shizuku, but Natsume, Sasayan, and Oshima - that really shows, through events both happy and sad, their vulnerability, strength, and consideration (and occasionally lack thereof) for each other.
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Old 2012-12-11, 09:21   Link #533
Kirarakim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
If Shizuku is a demonstrably positive influence on Haru, then what do you think would be achieved by taking her away from him? Shizuku herself is not acting out of charity or any misguided fantasy, so why not trust her to handle herself with her own judgement? To say that Haru should be wrested away from Shizuku, overriding the person in question's own decisions, when Haru's behaviour has been portrayed as understood to be negative and unhealthy even by Haru himself is to suggest that redemption is impossible even when people are willing or even desperate to try for it. And that is an even more troubling perspective for me than treating this series as cheap fantasy.
But no one is saying that. This is a fictional relationship not a real one. I am not making any judgements towards real people. I am not really going to take Shizuku away from Haru. Ultimately we know who is going to end up with who.

I am just saying I am not enjoying the way this relationship is being written.

The fact that Shizuku is basically a restraint for Haru and if she wasn't around he might revert back is not a well written romance for me.

Perhaps Haru will have some amazing character development later on (as mentioned above) and that will change my feelings on this relationship but for now I am just not personally a fan.
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Old 2012-12-11, 10:42   Link #534
Guardian Enzo
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One thing that’s become indisputable in my mind is this: Yamaken and Haru bring out the worst in each other. If that was ever in doubt it was amply proven this week. Yamaken sees Haru and he can’t help but tweak and provoke him, much as he did when they were children. And Haru can’t help but take the bait and be provoked – as smart as he is in school, he’s incredibly dumb in matters of emotion.

During their late-night chance meeting Haru asks Yamaken “Are you scared of me?” and of course, the unspoken answer is yes – and it isn’t without good reason, which cuts to the heart of the problem. Haru is a scary person sometimes – the angry boy who throws cans after petty provocation (this is the third time he’s inadvertently struck Shizuku) and makes shocking comments on the spur of the moment. I feel quite confident that Haru would never intentionally do anything to harm Shizuku, partly because I believe he means it when he says so (and that he loves her) and partly because at heart he’s simply not that kind of person. But there’s a problem in that he’d say such things in the first place, and that he’s clearly capable of harming those for whom he feels enmity rather than affection. We still don’t know all the ways in which those Haru has loved have hurt him – it’s very clear that Yuzan has done a considerable amount of damage himself – but it’s absolutely obvious than he’s just not capable of believing anyone can love him and not hurt him, which is at the heart both of his relationship issues with Mitty and his vulnerability to Yamaken.

I think Mitty sums up this relationship best herself – “Why is it that we’re always out of sync?” Haru always finds her when he’s at his most emotionally desperate as if by fate, and reaches out to her in a completely vulnerable and loving manner than touches her at every level – then says the worst possible thing he can. When he says “I want you” and “I’ve been restraining myself” he doesn’t mean sexually – I think even Mitty realizes this after a moment – bur that he’s simply incapable of placing his trust in someone he loves without “proof” that they won’t burn him. What really needs to happen is for someone to explain to one or both of them just what’s so obvious to the viewer, but life usually doesn’t work that way, and they agonizingly continue to fumble around in the dark, missing each other every time. I don’t know if this is fixable, but I don’t join the chorus who dismiss Haru as a bad person or a bad character – in a universe full of uninteresting romantic leads, he’s utterly fascinating. And Tonari pulls no punches by trying to simplify him or turn him into a teddy bear – he’s more of a grizzly. Haru is a mess, and risky, and damaged – but for me, really fascinating both individually and as part of a relationship with Shizuku.
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Old 2012-12-11, 12:45   Link #535
mangamuscle
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I wonder who came with the translation "My little Monster", there is nothing "little" about him, he *is* a monster, that does not mean he is bad, but bringing him into your house will break a few things and if someone is so dumb as to trap him into a corner, the "it was a prank!" excuse will not save them from a world of hurt. I expect as time goes by that Haru will become a civilized savage (lifting his pinky finger as he drinks his cup of tea and all that), but that does not mean Shizuku will not have to pull his leash now and then as Kagome did with Inuyasha.
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Old 2012-12-11, 13:16   Link #536
HandofFate
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I actually totally forgot about the title with Monster in it.
When I watched the first episode or two, wasn't sure why it was titled that way..

now i see that the monster is Haru >_> and a dangerous one at that.
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Old 2012-12-11, 14:05   Link #537
Lexxus
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Sometimes I really wonder if there's someone who is really this bad with direction.
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Old 2012-12-11, 14:44   Link #538
Dr. Casey
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I had a stroke whenever I was being born (My birth didn't go very smoothly, to say the least, there were a number of other problems too), and I certainly have a worse sense of direction than most people. One time at a restaurant, I got lost after going to the bathroom and it took me about ten minutes to relocate the table where my family was at, and it's not at all uncommon for me to go in the wrong direction down a hallway after leaving a room.
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Old 2012-12-12, 14:53   Link #539
RegalStar
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Shizuku's reaction to the sour onigiri is so cute.
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Old 2012-12-12, 15:30   Link #540
Reckoner
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Honestly, while Haru has done a lot that is immature, it's Shizuku who is being the more annoying individual. She is the one who refuses to make any sacrifices to be in a relationship. She flat out said her studying is more important, and with that sort of attitude, they'll never be together regardless of Haru's attitude or not. Does she really have to be at the very top of her class? She can afford to live a little, it's not like her grades dropped to the point that she couldn't succeed in life.

Like Yamaken said, why does she have to have all or nothing? She's just as childish as Haru in someways, even if she isn't quite as dangerous.

Again I must reiterate that I am starting to grow increasingly frustrated by the pussyfooting in this show to keep the two leads out of a relationship. They've been walking in circles.
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