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Old 2012-11-17, 21:50   Link #121
flack
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I feel like JC is going to take matters in their own hands to the story very soon in an attempt to explain things. They already messed up quite a few things.
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Old 2012-11-17, 22:13   Link #122
Tenoia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
They really pushed too much on Haruka's routes aspect, which made Kanata sort of a device than a character on her own. Suffice to say, I'm not exactly expecting a lot with how linear they went with this mess.
Could you elaborate more on how they pushed too much on her routes' aspect? I can see how Kanata resembles more of a device than a character, but wasn't it like this in the VN too at first? Kanata's introduction and initial successive crackdowns on Haruka's mischievousness made it seem like Kanata was just there acting as a check against Haruka. It wasn't until later that you started to think that these two have a history and then, as the route progresses, that history is revealed.

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Originally Posted by Team Rocket Elite View Post
Shaka-shaka-hey was supposed to take place when Rin attempted to recruit Haruka. I wonder if they'll just make up a different excuse for Haruka to give Rin a tambourine.
As much as I would like to see the Shaka-shaka-hey scene, at this point is there really even a possibility that they will animate it? I feel like the prime moment for it has already passed, and any implementation of it later will just seem out-of-place.

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Originally Posted by Linkark07 View Post
As far as I remember the scene in which Riki and Rin defeat Masato was in those flashbacks. I think. But yeah, even if that isn't the one there is a Refrain part on those flashbacks.
Yeah, it was the scene in which Masato was siting on the ground against the wall looking tired and beaten up.
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Old 2012-11-18, 15:27   Link #123
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
But what makes a bigger problem was how Haruka was introduced: instead of having the trickster lurking around and pulling pranks left and right, it feels she "suddenly" is on rampage, as her presence was barely there prior episode 7. What is worse is how they literally skipped Yuiko and Haruka's interactions: there is no way for people to realize that they knew each other prior enrolling in the LB, and it will be even weirder for Haruka to call her "anego" in the future, if they literally skipped their "first onscreen interaction".

Also, Riki is... nearly stronger than Refrain Riki as far as I'm concerned: the way they made Horie voicing Riki during his confrontation with Kanata was so coarse that you would wonder why Riki needs character development.
We had Haruka scribble not only on/in Masato's books, but on his face as well. Although subtle, it was (poorly) shown that she is the type to pull pranks. But then, like you say, she goes into overdrive and cause like two pranks a day. Does that much even happen in the VN? At best, I think it was once a day.

Aside from Anego getting upset at Haruka calling her something else (Yui?) other than "Anego," I'm not remembering what their relationship is. Can anyone here fill me in about that? Is it in Anego's route or Haruka's?

About Riki, I've mentioned this in the "Anime Speculation & Spoilers" thread, so I"ll just copy/paste my post.

Riki, he is already courageous enough to stand up to that old guy in the retirement home (whatever his name was). With that kind of courage, why would he run away? Why would he not stand up to Kousuke? Why would he just stand by and watch as Rin is being sent away? With the level of confidence he has right now in the anime, I'm having a bit of trouble picturing him not doing what he really wants to do instead of just thinking it.

And let's not forget Rin... It really bothers me, a lot, on how she's oh so fine being near and talking to other people, then all of a sudden, she decides "I'll be shy now." She's already trying to talk to Haruka, she stops, hides behind Riki, and neither Haruka OR Riki have a reaction to her behavior...
--------

Well, being a Haruka fan, I've really enjoyed episode 7, I already watched it three times. I find that her animation, her voice acting, her art style, and her overall energy were nicely done. Especially her hair, I really liked how it flowed, that couldn't have been easy to do.
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Old 2012-11-18, 16:11   Link #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenoia View Post
Could you elaborate more on how they pushed too much on her routes' aspect? I can see how Kanata resembles more of a device than a character, but wasn't it like this in the VN too at first? Kanata's introduction and initial successive crackdowns on Haruka's mischievousness made it seem like Kanata was just there acting as a check against Haruka. It wasn't until later that you started to think that these two have a history and then, as the route progresses, that history is revealed.
They actually push forward the "problem child" aspect of Haruka, which isn't really that obvious at the start of her route in the vn. Sure, she is quite troublesome, but that's that. In this episode however, they weren't exactly subtle that Haruka might actually be more than a prankster and make use of lies etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffle View Post
We had Haruka scribble not only on/in Masato's books, but on his face as well. Although subtle, it was (poorly) shown that she is the type to pull pranks. But then, like you say, she goes into overdrive and cause like two pranks a day. Does that much even happen in the VN? At best, I think it was once a day.
I'm pretty sure Riki meets Haruka almost consistently once per day, which makes her pranks a daily event, almost as natural as Masato picking on Kengo for a fight. That's why the script decision regarding Haruka's presence is baffling: she was barely presented in ep1-6, and then suddenly, she multiplies her prank in a single row.
Quote:
Aside from Anego getting upset at Haruka calling her something else (Yui?) other than "Anego," I'm not remembering what their relationship is. Can anyone here fill me in about that? Is it in Anego's route or Haruka's?
Well, you have Haruka tagging along Yuiko as if she was a model for her, which is... inexistent in the anime for no reason. They removed their antics and dynamics, so I don't think anyone would expect them to be acquaintances before joining the LB.

Quote:
And let's not forget Rin... It really bothers me, a lot, on how she's oh so fine being near and talking to other people, then all of a sudden, she decides "I'll be shy now." She's already trying to talk to Haruka, she stops, hides behind Riki, and neither Haruka OR Riki have a reaction to her behavior...
Indeed, it almost felt the scripter went: woops, we forgot Rin should be shy... oh well, we will leave as it is to remind people she is trying but no go.


It must be though for Mio fans though, since according the spoilers, she will show up only by episode 10, which is retarded no matter how you look at it. And I still think it will be a very weird mood to have all characters going all out on the baseball match AFTER going through their own problems and trauma.
It isn't like everyone could get "stronger" or as cheerful as before after what they went through: I mean, it would be quite difficult for Yuiko, Kudo or even Haruka to be as effective and resourceful after their individual route.
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Old 2012-11-19, 09:16   Link #125
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maybe they would go...
a few routes then Baseball match and do the other routes that leave the characters much more different then they had been... ( or maybe Komari > common > baseball.)
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Old 2012-11-26, 15:37   Link #126
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I think I can pinpoint what makes this show not sit so well with me at times. When I see Kud or Mio for the first time, I wonder who is this girl? What does the protagonist know about her that I don't to explain the situation better? J.C. Staff doesn't take the viewers point of view into consideration in these cases. Knowing that Kud is half Japanese and Russian, and that her grandfather travels a lot which is why she was living in Finland is one of the first things explained about Kud in the VN. Knowing that makes so many of Kud's scenes make more sense. The difference between the VN and the anime is that the questions that come up as I'm watching/reading get answered at a fitting time in the VN, whereas the anime is really random when it comes to divulging information about the characters. The improper shuffling of scenes or lack thereof is just becoming brutally apparent as more character introductions are being done and feel off.

The scene shuffling for the series as a whole has been terrible. They have a character arc at the start and introductory scenes in the middle... the scenes are just all over the place. Rin playing with the pride of cats in a secluded corner of the school is the perfect scene to introduce her character. Her talking to Riki and not knowing the name of the girl behind her is a basis to view all her actions with the other girls, her playing with the cats and acting tsuntsun to Riki show's she has a much more dynamic personality that is playful and on the contrary can be friendly too. Having this scene first would have made her first interactions with Komari seem a lot more off-character. Instead J.C. makes us deduce she's shy after yelling at Masato for an episode and a half then acting all awkward in front of Komari. A comedic scene turns into a perplexing scene because of the scene shuffling. It's like J.C. assumes we've already played the VN already, and they don't care about how coherent the story is to the viewer who watches the anime as it's own work. Just as long as they animate all the scenes eventually it doesn't matter what order they do it in seems to be the perspective J.C. is taking.

Last edited by Ceral; 2012-11-26 at 16:29. Reason: Switched order of my paragraphs for more coherency
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Old 2012-12-01, 11:05   Link #127
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The last episode was a complete mess in term of chronologiical development: good to see they have put the lunch mini game event in there, but Rin's development is being teared left and right:

I mean, they brought her back to her all "cat care" part, where she can't even imagine herself dealing with any LB girls, then her big concerns for the cafeteria, and finally asking everyone help, even Haruka and Yuiko.

The other problem I have is how captain obvious they are going with Lennon and the messages he has. I'm pretty sure the "secret of this world" wasn't that hammered back in the VN, but here it is as if "hey guys, something is UP! but we aren't going to tell you yet, but hey, there is something!".

It isn't any foreshadowing, it is just as subtle as a sledgehammer.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2012-12-01 at 13:46. Reason: typo
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Old 2012-12-01, 22:42   Link #128
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IIRC in the VN Riki does comment about how the person behind Lennon shouldn't have been able to predict the problem with the cafeteria. The anime is definitely a lot more heavy handed, though.
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Old 2012-12-09, 22:23   Link #129
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No comparisons yet?

I wanna know what you guys thought about the changes...

as a Mio lover I'm sad with episode 10
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Old 2012-12-09, 22:52   Link #130
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About episode 10? I do notice some things are different but I'm not remembering Mio scenes from the VN too well to make a proper comparison. I think there are only like 2 or 3 Mio fans here, and IIRC, they hardly post.

It was an average episode, typical to the "girl of the week" theme they're using. The art quality was good, music timing and volume was good, and the script was nice overall. I'll need to check how her scenes in the common route since I have a hazy memory of them, it will be rough check though since I don't plan on focusing on her.
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Old 2012-12-11, 20:44   Link #131
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Episode 10 is great but I somehow don't like the idea to have other girls involved rather than Riki to solve other problems. New seiyuu for Mio was doing great. But I am still familiar and favour with the old one, maybe need sometimes to adapt.

However, at first I hope episode 10 can extend to the point that Mio officially joins Little Busters. Maybe next episode she will. But at this time after 10 episode was broadcasted. I am still confused about the anime pattern, why Mio is so late to be formally introduced. They should switch between episode 9 and 10 so Mio can also join the cooking.
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Old 2012-12-15, 21:19   Link #132
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Okay... just to be sure: since when Haruka calls Yuiko "Yui nee"? I'm pretty sure it didn't happen in this game, but if it did, it is probably on a very rare (unique?) occasion. But heck, Haruka switches between these 2 in ep11 for no reason (in fact, they still didn't explain haruka and yuiko relationship, despite they could do that in 3 min for the vending machine scene instead of prolonging things this way).

But really, episode 11 was such a drag I don't get what the scripters are doing: we have not the full LB team complete despite we are reaching halfway mark of the first season. We have arguably little to no baseball practice, and Rin's progression is basically inexistent, while Komari's conclusion hardly rung as noticeable in the current situation.


I just... am at loss. Qualifying this adaptation would actually make Kanon 2002 quite worthwhile in comparison.
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Old 2012-12-16, 10:26   Link #133
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Haruka only said that she called Anego something else and she got angry, I don't think it was ever specified as to what it was she called her.

A 3 minute scene about Haruka's and Anego's relationship could've fit really well in episode 9 since there was so much time wasted there...

To be fair, Clannad was also as slow paced as LB. For me, Clannad first season was one giant common route with Kotomi's arc within it. LB is doing something kinda similar as to what was done there it seems. However, the execution has been poor in many places due to the scene shuffling.

I don't think it's known yet has to how long the second season is going to be, but judging from the speed things are going now, the second season must be 24-26 eps or else things are going to become severely rushed later on.

Mio is seemingly getting a lot of focus now, I wouldn't be surprised if her arc is next.
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Old 2012-12-16, 10:54   Link #134
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I personally found Clannad much more balanced, because they did a very quirky and timed introduction for everyone, even the likes of Yukine, which lead to some interesting interactions and whatnot.
However, we have been drown with seemly "uneventful" sequences, with a major emphasis on: Rikki narcolpesy (not even Rikki's helplessness), Rin running away from girls, and Masato muscles.

Really, I think they should have condensed few things, made ACTUAL characters interactions instead of several sub quests one after another. As of now, the adaptation is painfully slow and uninteresting.
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Old 2012-12-16, 11:14   Link #135
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Yes I agree, Clannad had much better execution, things felt very natural in which could be believed as those characters every day life. LB is failing to do this... And I think the main culprit for it is the "girl of the week" theme they've been using, it just doesn't help the viewer understand what these characters everyday life is like.

The emphasis on Riki's condition has been getting on my nerves. Even some anime only viewers are annoyed at it, the way it's done is a very sloppy method of narrating the story. There really is no point on using Riki's condition if his friends are not going to be concerned about him. Even Rin, a childhood friend, gets worried when Riki collapses. Early in the game, Komari gets worried when Riki suddenly blanks out on the roof while talking to her. Neither of these scenes were in the anime at all. This causes Riki's relationship with his friends and his condition in general to feel somewhat irrelevant.

The silly lunch room event was a giant stretch I felt, I forgot that scene even existed. Since there is already a lot of scene shuffling, I think this scene would fit in better a few episodes later from now. The main reason being, Rin's character would be developed a little bit more, so it wouldn't feel so out of place to see her asking everyone for help. Or even, let Riki be the one to ask everyone for help, shorten the event, and include something like Haruka's and Anego's relationship.
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Old 2012-12-17, 13:54   Link #136
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Could you explain me please the relationship between Anego and haruka ?

I'm sure JC won't explain... so I don't mind spoilers ..
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Old 2012-12-17, 14:02   Link #137
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Haruka knew Yuiko for quite a while, even before Riki recruited both of them.
Albeit their relationship isn't anything "deep", you have a good idea that Haruka respects Yuiko quite a bunch, and put her on a pedestal (hence why "Anego").
Haruka oftens acts like Yuiko's "henchman" or "sidekick" without being too clingy. Still, she is arguably friendly the most with her than anyone else (save Riki when you reach Haruka's route, obviously).

So the absolute lack of interactions, then the messed up name calling are beyond me.
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Old 2012-12-17, 15:53   Link #138
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I see.. thanks

I thought kurugaya was always alone,but is normal to have an acquaintance/friend.

it was a bit rare because Haruka called her Yui-nee and then anego
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Old 2013-01-29, 16:22   Link #139
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Dragging the conversation here as points are getting quite on the different tangent as this rate.
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
If you compare the other KEY anime to this, they are no different. It goes happy fun days -> oh shit -> back to happy fun days repeatedly until the end of the story where it's pretty much all serious. Little Busters anime on that front has been little different. We went from fun episodes to Komari's route which got serious to fun episodes to Mio's route which got series and then back to fun and now we are on Haruka's route. This same criticism of unbalanced tone in the show can be applied to every KEY anime, save maybe Air.
There is a drastic difference in term of execution and pacing to me: whereas the formula is the same from its very fundation, LB anime currently has very very little tone shift outside of the girls route. In fact, that relates to the comment I've made regarding the foreshadowing, with the exception with Mio.

Quote:
Also I have to disagree with the foreshadowing remark. Mio's arc was foreshadowed just fine, and Haruka's route was foreshadowed long before this in the episode she decided to join the Little Busters. We already got the point much earlier that her antics were not looked upon kindly by the school or other students.
Actually, the problem is more than just that for Haruka.
Some terms are just missing that make the treatment from some persons quite differently. For instance, Kengo's behaviour in the anime basically doesn't have any interaction with Haruka one bit (in fact, Kengo got quite the short end of a stick in general), whereas he made clear back in the VN that Haruka is borderline a pest (he got quite pissed off by that bucket prank).

Likewise, Masato reactions were also quite dry, even if we know the guy is not really any close to be someone who can throw mean stuff for nothing.
Whenever Haruka shows up, he either thinks she is useless, or thinks she is yet again going to mess around their classroom, which is quite different in the anime as Masato only react this way in a exaggerated fashion when he is on the receiving end.

But the real problem with Haruka is her own foreshadowing as in her utter lack of reactions when anything close to her twin problem shows up. In fact, the anime makes it like she is in the receiving end and hated Kanata only starting from the latest episode, whereas she has shown some scorn/hatred way before that initially.
At least, they did adress the problem child part by using the vending machine event earlier.

Quote:
Also I think 3 episodes per route is pretty fair for the girls. This is not a VN where you can spend endless time doing absolute jack sh*t for the story. This is an anime and they have to adjust accordingly.
Actually, the problem is how it was cut dry into 2 episodes each. The "third" episode is more or less events that where blended in the common routes. And frankly, it was the opposite: they dragged the irrelevant parts too much ironically.
Really, was that necessary to drag Yuiko's intro as a full episode? What about the test of courage?

Really, what I meant with my initial rants was how they didn't make a proper pacing with more level headed and balanced common route WITH the damn baseball arc, and then pulling progressively the heroines arc.
They don't have to have all girls arcs done by the first season: they should probably have gone with Komari, Haruka, Mio and Kud, leaving Rin, Yuiko and Refrain for the second season. But as far as it goes, the anime has a very unbalanced way to present events.

It is even more obvious when the episodes are segmented as "heroine of the week" for the casual events, instead of having a natural flow of several events that show characters little everyday.
The prime example of that would be Haruka's pranks multiplying starting in Episode 7. Prior that point, she only appeared 1 or 2 times, leaving little impression that she is doing that all the time, until you finally reach that episode.
Quote:
We have Haruka, Mio, and Komari. That's 9 episodes. Judging from the OP that we will also be getting Kud. So that's going ot be like 12 episodes. AND MAYBE, we'll get some other girl to conclude the show, but even if we don't that's basically 50% common route material and 50% routes for these 2 cours. I think that's pretty balanced myself.
Actually, only 4 episodes, 2 each for Mio and Komari.
Episode 4 was a common route event involving the LB with Komari's volonteer work, with only 1 single point from her route: her grandpa.
Likewise, Episode 10 was part of Mio's intro and how she joined the LB. So her route only spanned for episode 13 and 14.

So far, the problem is how unfinished the intro for the whole group was, and went scattered across due to having Komari inserted this way, to which Mio's route was far less an issue, save her absurdely belated intro.

But whereas the actual heroine routes aren't that butchered, it is how they were inserted in the ongoing plot, along with little details and usual interactions (a ton of which are from the baseball practice sessions).

Quote:
I have no idea what you're saying here really. Masato was just as goofy in the VN. Furthermore he has more than once expressed anger towards Haruka in the anime, so this point wasn't lost.
I disagree. Masato often plays the Boke, but did he often go hyper with food and muscles in the VN? (important note: yes, Masato interjecting muscles is a daily occurence. What is different is the way it is played between the VN and anime. In the VN, Masato boasts about muscles as if it is natural and thus with a normal speech, whereas in the anime, he is portrayed as if he was to promote muscles as the best thing at every occasions possible. The biggest example would be his random muscle song during the volonteer work).

Sure it was his motto, but more often than not, Masato was a poser trying to act cool, instead of acting like a retarded. At his core, he is of course a bit dimwit and definitely not what you can refer as intellectual, but whereas in the VN he is saying nonsense, his act goes altogether in the anime. If you prefer, Masato's actions are even "more retarded" to me in the anime, as his speech is accompanied by weird fidgetting and so on.
Quote:
The cartoonish aspect of Haruka vs the committee is also very similar. Things only ever got really serious when it was Kanata and Haruka in the VN, and it's the same here. In the VN, Kanata even comes off as more of a bitch than in the anime.
I personally didn't have that much "goofy comedy" impression with the way how Riki was describing things from his perspective, especially how things go out of hand/serious (especially that thumbnack part).
I'm not claiming that every parts involving the commitee without Kanata were serious. Far from it. However we are shown only the "fun side" of the pranks without much the afterthought behind them (be it the commitee or the other characters).

As for Kanata, she is actually more sarcastic and less aggressive in the VN, leaving some implication that sparked Riki's attention, to which he could conclude Kanata's true intention at some point. In fact the tone is slightly different, since she lost her taunting edge and went more straightforward with her verbal abuse in the anime.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2013-01-29 at 17:01.
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Old 2013-01-29, 17:23   Link #140
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Wow Klash, you're in high gear lately, it's hard for me to say anything since you're saying what I wanted to say better than I could, and more. Anyway, my input on some of those things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Some terms are just missing that make the treatment from some persons quite differently. For instance, Kengo's behaviour in the anime basically doesn't have any interaction with Haruka one bit (in fact, Kengo got quite the short end of a stick in general), whereas he made clear back in the VN that Haruka is borderline a pest (he got quite pissed off by that bucket prank).
I noticed how Kengo treated Haruka right away, especially with the bucket incident. In general, Kengo does NOT want to to interact with Haruka, this is either very vague or missing in the anime. It not only subtracts from Kengo's character development, it also causes Haruka's character to not look as bothersome. That brings me back to the bucket incident. Leaving the anime not showing the only time Kengo is wearing the school uniform and his displeasure of wearing it aside, Kengo in the anime does not even express a bit of anger towards Haruka's prank. After accusing Masato that he was the one that did it, his anger just vanishes... It was the perfect chance to show how much trouble Haruka is causing for other people, but the anime just decided to display it only as a comedy skit. (All this happens in episode 7 for anyone that wants to check)

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
But the real problem with Haruka is her own foreshadowing as in her utter lack of reactions when anything close to her twin problem shows up. In fact, the anime makes it like she is in the receiving end and hated Kanata only starting from the latest episode, whereas she has shown some scorn/hatred way before that initially.
The problem I have with Haruka's introduction episode where Kanata first shows up is that it's never shown how Haruka dislikes Kanata. In the VN we get a facial expression (and some words IIRC) that shows Haruka just DOES NOT like Kanata. I felt this was some important foreshadowing on Haruka's and Kanata's relationship. But instead, the anime gives Haruka a sullen expression. Not only that, it appeared to me that Haruka actually complemented Kanata... what? Ok... I won't dig into that... (episode 7, 14:40~14:50)

---------------
I felt Mio's arc was fairly well done, but it's too bad we didn't get to see Riki and Mio go to the book store. I felt having that scene would make more sense as to why Mio would want to come back, she would have a friend that was willing to spend time with her. However, Haruka's arc felt thrown in my face so harshly, I didn't feel I was eased into the story. It's more like "this is Haruka's story, let's jump into it." This is where the issue of balanced pacing comes in. There wasn't enough build up for me to feel like ep.16 should have the pacing that it did. AT LEAST, they could've made Kanata say something about Haruka during the sleep over event, that would've helped in easing me into the upcoming character story.

BTW, I may not be remembering correctly... In the game, did Kanata even come off as a sarcastic person before entering Haruka's arc? I know she was extremely sarcastic during Haruka's route, but I'm not remember how she was during the common route.
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