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Old 2012-12-12, 21:23   Link #25081
NoemiChan
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Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/323173/...proves-rh-bill

14-year-old Reproductive Health Bill passed in Congress. Those against the bill are now fuming mad.
A great news indeed! Thank God!
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Old 2012-12-12, 21:27   Link #25082
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Non-whites to make up nearly 60 percent of U.S. by 2060: Census
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8BB1RE20121212
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Old 2012-12-12, 21:37   Link #25083
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
On the topic of North Korea, can we EMP the crap out of them once and for all? I'm sick and tired of their attempts to put everyone on the edge.
South Korea would also be hit by it, probably parts of China and Japan too. An EMP is not something you can focus likes a DDoS attack.
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Old 2012-12-13, 01:13   Link #25084
Tom Bombadil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
On the topic of North Korea, can we EMP the crap out of them once and for all? I'm sick and tired of their attempts to put everyone on the edge.
A nuclear first strike sent toward the direction of China and Russia but aims at nothing other than frying the limited number of computers and light bulbs that NK has? Ingenious.
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Old 2012-12-13, 01:19   Link #25085
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Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
South Korea would also be hit by it, probably parts of China and Japan too. An EMP is not something you can focus likes a DDoS attack.
Pretty much, not to mention you'd need some substantial tonnage to "EMP the crap out of them once and for all".

Add in the fact that you've just launched a preemptive nuclear attack, which opens yourself up to retaliation...

It's beyond cutting off your nose to spite your face, it's just straight up blowing yourself up.
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Old 2012-12-13, 02:16   Link #25086
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
A nuclear first strike sent toward the direction of China and Russia but aims at nothing other than frying the limited number of computers and light bulbs that NK has? Ingenious.
Doesn't have to be nuclear. I read articles on technology about how to do it without a nuke and, yes, it can be done without an ICBM. Sending drones with "EMP bombs" to be activated over specifically targeted areas (military installations) should be enough.

And besides, since the DPRK invested most of their computer technology into their nuclear program and other military departments (with enough willingness to take a shot at other countries or being an attention whore), they deserve to take something big into the teeth. Either way, such country as North Korea doesn't deserve a chance to make their way out without facing some consequences following their threats. Seriously, don't you get fed up by the threats and the missile tests they keep on doing? The same can be said about the bearded SOB in Iran.
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Old 2012-12-13, 02:33   Link #25087
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It's highly hypocritical to start wars because someone's posturing "raises tensions".
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Old 2012-12-13, 02:38   Link #25088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Doesn't have to be nuclear. I read articles on technology about how to do it without a nuke and, yes, it can be done without an ICBM. Sending drones with "EMP bombs" to be activated over specifically targeted areas (military installations) should be enough.
There are ways to generate EMP pulse without nuclear explosions, yes.

Are they in form factors small enough to be carried by drones yet powerful enough to be used as weapons? No, unless you know something the rest of us don't, in which case I'd love to see you link us to working EMP weapons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
And besides, since the DPRK invested most of their computer technology into their nuclear program and other military departments (with enough willingness to take a shot at other countries or being an attention whore), they deserve to take something big into the teeth. Either way, such country as North Korea doesn't deserve a chance to make their way out without facing some consequences following their threats. Seriously, don't you get fed up by the threats and the missile tests they keep on doing? The same can be said about the bearded SOB in Iran.
If everyone in charge has your attitude, WWIII would probably happen next week, and the end of humanity 3 days later.
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Old 2012-12-13, 02:41   Link #25089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
It's highly hypocritical to start wars because someone's posturing "raises tensions".
Then what do you suggest? Let those attention whores or those crazies (depending of your POV about North Korea) bore themselves before they decide to act and kill millions for fun? Too much at risk here by letting it go, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
There are ways to generate EMP pulse without nuclear explosions, yes.

Are they in form factors small enough to be carried by drones yet powerful enough to be used as weapons? No, unless you know something the rest of us don't, in which case I'd love to see you link us to working EMP weapons.

If everyone in charge has your attitude, WWIII would probably happen next week, and the end of humanity 3 days later.
I don't think the military would ever disclose the current status about such weapons, but the US had the project since the late 1990s about using devices incased into Mk.84 JDAM shells and which could be set to "detonate" at a precise altitude to determine the damage radius. My guess is that something more elaborated has been made by some countries since.

The world cut some slack for North Korea for decades after 1953. However, I think the time has come to send them a message that many countries have enough of their antics considering how many chances they had to do something more constructive of their own. I'm sure there are people who think the same. Don't you have enough of the DPRK's antics too?

Last edited by KiraYamatoFan; 2012-12-13 at 02:52.
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Old 2012-12-13, 02:42   Link #25090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Doesn't have to be nuclear. I read articles on technology about how to do it without a nuke and, yes, it can be done without an ICBM. Sending drones with "EMP bombs" to be activated over specifically targeted areas (military installations) should be enough.

And besides, since the DPRK invested most of their computer technology into their nuclear program and other military departments (with enough willingness to take a shot at other countries or being an attention whore), they deserve to take something big into the teeth. Either way, such country as North Korea doesn't deserve a chance to make their way out without facing some consequences following their threats. Seriously, don't you get fed up by the threats and the missile tests they keep on doing? The same can be said about the bearded SOB in Iran.
Yes, because the last time the Yankees started a war on similar premises, it went so well for them.
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Old 2012-12-13, 02:56   Link #25091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Then what do you suggest? Let those attention whores or those crazies (depending of your POV about North Korea) bore themselves before they decide to act and kill millions for fun? Too much at risk here by letting it go, IMO.
You can begin by not dehumanizing the entire country, I'm quite certain the vast majority of North Koreans are neither attention whores nor crazies. And frankly, neither is its government. As much as we may dislike them, one does not rule a nation with an iron fist these days for as long as North Korea by being stupid and/or crazy.

War is the last resort, when all other diplomatic means have failed. Jumping straight to open war because you don't like the other guy is exactly what you're accusing North Korea will do..
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Old 2012-12-13, 03:05   Link #25092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
You can begin by not dehumanizing the entire country, I'm quite certain the vast majority of North Koreans are neither attention whores nor crazies. And frankly, neither is its government. As much as we may dislike them, one does not rule a nation with an iron fist these days for as long as North Korea by being stupid and/or crazy.
The "normal people" are asking for dehumanization from the very moment they completely give up fighting for their rights and hopes of a better future. They had almost 60 years to find failures in the system and exploit them in order to gain more rights and freedom. Countries have been starved in the past (sometimes worse, sometimes less bad than North Korea) before the populations took arms against their own government and succeeded.

Now, even South Korea told the DPRK to go to hell... what more is to be interpreted from such message when it comes from people with the same blood? I have a hard time finding a better solution when the DPRK government keeps threatening everyone instead of making something more constructive after all this time. I think all diplomatic solutions have failed beyond the point of no return since Kim Jong-Il took power.
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Old 2012-12-13, 03:15   Link #25093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Now, even South Korea told the DPRK to go to hell... what more is to be interpreted from such message? I have a hard time finding a better solution when the DPRK government keep threatening everyone instead of making something more constructive after all this time. I think all diplomatic solutions have failed beyond the point of no return since Kim Jong-Il took power.
I don't know much about history, but all I can say is that the "citizens" who are to be blame for this are already old if not all dead. Blame them for allowing the Soviets to build a communist government in their country that divided them until now.

The current citizens well, I'm not sure but they might have grown up being taught what is right and what in wrong in the doctrines of communism. They may have been made to believe that they are bound to die if they ignore or rebel against the government.

In the end, the blame is to their government that continues to ignore the rights of its citizens.

About South Korea? I don't know.. they're too progressive to care for their suffering brothers.
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Old 2012-12-13, 03:26   Link #25094
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
I don't know much about history, but also I can say is the the "citizens" who should've been blamed are already old if not dead right now for allowing the Soviet s to build a communist government in their country that divided their country.

The current citizens well, I'm not sure might have grown up being taught what is right and what in wrong in the doctrines of communism. They may have been made to believe that they are boud to die if the ignore the government.

In the end, the blame is to their government that continue to ignore the rights of its citizens.

About South Korea? I don't know.. they're too progressive to care for their suffering brothers.
I'm not sure there were many Russians from 1917 when the Soviet Union had no choice but to move progressively towards the end of the single-party-censoring-everything era in the late 1980s either. Back then, young Russians also had their share of teachings about the doctrines of communism. But that didn't stop the people from claiming their rights and asking for more transparency. We can also say the same about other countries in the Warsaw Pact.

Of course the DPRK government is to be blamed, but the situation also finds roots in the reaction (or lack of) from the people. Historically, when a population is starved and gets angry as a result, there usually is a reaction. However, the lack of reaction from North Koreans after years of starvation is just staggering and it fuels the current diplomatic situation, whether we like it or not.

Last edited by KiraYamatoFan; 2012-12-13 at 03:41.
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Old 2012-12-13, 03:34   Link #25095
Yu Ominae
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And considering that North Korean intelligence agencies are very good in weeding out folks who are angry at the government and stuff means that they're just good in concealing the fact.
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Old 2012-12-13, 03:41   Link #25096
kyp275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
The "normal people" are asking for dehumanization from the very moment they completely give up fighting for their rights and hopes of a better future. They had almost 60 years to find failures in the system and exploit them in order to gain more rights and freedom. Countries have been starved in the past (sometimes worse, sometimes less bad than North Korea) before the populations took arms against their own government and succeeded.
It's quite easy to tell other people to go die for a cause, though unless you've done the same, I'm not sure if you have the right to condemn others for refusing to do so.

I find your take on the situation... overly simplistic. North Korea did not happen in a vacuum, but rather as a direct result of WW2 and the Cold War. The regime was directly supported by the Soviets and China, are you seriously saying the North Koreans should take up arms against their own govt, China, and the Soviets all together? Hell, they wouldn't even have had the weapons to do it with, what were they gonna do, ask the Chinese and Russians for them?

Quote:
Now, even South Korea told the DPRK to go to hell... what more is to be interpreted from such message when it comes from people with the same blood?
They've been saying the same thing for the last 60+ years, I'm not sure why you think this amounts to anything. Hell, you can hear the same crap thrown at each other by many country's political parties, doesn't mean you should start a civil war over it.

Quote:
I have a hard time finding a better solution when the DPRK government keeps threatening everyone instead of making something more constructive after all this time. I think all diplomatic solutions have failed beyond the point of no return since Kim Jong-Il took power.
Launching a rocket may be provocative, but it's hardly a direct hostile threat. Moreover, the NK regime has little reason to be "constructive" towards the West, it's doing just fine right now.

I'm not sure if you get this, but not every country is going to be on the same side, but that's hardly a reason to START wars over it. North Korea may like to rattle its saber, but your kill-them-all policy is even worse.
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Old 2012-12-13, 03:42   Link #25097
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Well the President of Iran will be out of office reguardless by next Fall. So we won't have to worry about him spouting off after that again.
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Old 2012-12-13, 04:31   Link #25098
KiraYamatoFan
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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
I find your take on the situation... overly simplistic. North Korea did not happen in a vacuum, but rather as a direct result of WW2 and the Cold War. The regime was directly supported by the Soviets and China, are you seriously saying the North Koreans should take up arms against their own govt, China, and the Soviets all together? Hell, they wouldn't even have had the weapons to do it with, what were they gonna do, ask the Chinese and Russians for them?
Let's put it the other way: Cuba, Islamist Iran and other countries were born from fighting their own governments despite the huge direct support from the United States (and probably United Kingdom in Iran's case) towards those particular regimes. Have they ever considered the US might bring in the hammer in retaliation back then? I don't know, but Cubans and Iranians were not afraid of doing what it took to destroy their respective regimes. And if we take Soviet-supported countries as an example, the Poles, the Czechs, the East Germans and then many more found other ways to get rid of their regimes and win their cause.

How to get weapons? Ask how the Mujahideen got them in the 1980's Afghanistan War. Bar CIA operations, good old-fashioned ambushes worked out well for any rebellion. The Afghans sure didn't have that many before the Soviet invasion.

Quote:
They've been saying the same thing for the last 60+ years, I'm not sure why you think this amounts to anything. Hell, you can hear the same crap thrown at each other by many country's political parties, doesn't mean you should start a civil war over it.
It's not only the ROK government, but also many people in South Korea who say the DPRK can rot as much as they care. If that's not a clear "kiss my butt" message, I don't know what it is.

Quote:
I'm not sure if you get this, but not every country is going to be on the same side, but that's hardly a reason to START wars over it. North Korea may like to rattle its saber, but your kill-them-all policy is even worse.
It's one thing to not be on the same side, but it's another to keep on provoking countries and take the piss about it without suffering something in return. Someday, the DPRK will have to answer for what they do unless they back off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Well the President of Iran will be out of office reguardless by next Fall. So we won't have to worry about him spouting off after that again.
That's good news if they find someone more moderate for other countries to speak with.

'Night.
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Old 2012-12-13, 05:33   Link #25099
kyp275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Let's put it the other way: Cuba, Islamist Iran and other countries were born from fighting their own governments despite the huge direct support from the United States (and probably United Kingdom in Iran's case) towards those particular regimes. Have they ever considered the US might bring in the hammer in retaliation back then? I don't know, but Cubans and Iranians were not afraid of doing what it took to destroy their respective regimes. And if we take Soviet-supported countries as an example, the Poles, the Czechs, the East Germans and then many more found other ways to get rid of their regimes and win their cause.
The examples you provided are hardly the same IMO. Cuba had the support of the Soviets, the Iran revolution was fueled by religious zealotry and anti-americanism and frankly is a whole other can of worm all by itself. Most importantly, the US & Allies, despite providing monetary and in some cases material support, never actually supplied actual armies to the regimes they supported. This is not the case for North Korea, where China have provided heavy troop support, without which the regime would not exist today.

In many ways, North Korea is to China as the Warsaw Pact countries were to the Soviets - both are important satellite states that served as buffers for them. And much like the Warsaw Pact, the current N. Korean regime is unlikely to fall unless China itself buckles, or decides it no longer want the buffer N. Korea provides.


Quote:
How to get weapons? Ask how the Mujahideen got them in the 1980's Afghanistan War. Bar CIA operations, good old-fashioned ambushes worked out well for any rebellion. The Afghans sure didn't have that many before the Soviet invasion.
The geography of the two is completely different. Afghanistan is basically one giant border that's so porous it might as well not exist. North Korea on the other hand is the opposite. You're not gonna get stuff through China, and you're sure as hell not getting crap through the demilitarized zone from the south, this means you can only go by the sea, which means the best you can do is some small arms. Good luck trying to take on one of the largest army on the planet, back by THE largest army on the planet, while they're supported by one of the two superpower in the world, and most importantly - those guys don't really care about looking like the good guys like the US & Allies often do.


Quote:
It's not only the ROK government, but also many people in South Korea who say the DPRK can rot as much as they care. If that's not a clear "kiss my butt" message, I don't know what it is.
Naturally there is no love lost between the South Koreans and the North Korean government. On the other hand it's quite a jump to stretch that to means that South Koreans don't care about North Koreans, especially when many still have families on both sides.

Quote:
It's one thing to not be on the same side, but it's another to keep on provoking countries and take the piss about it without suffering something in return. Someday, the DPRK will have to answer for what they do unless they back off.
That line of thinking is flawed in this case. The rocket launch is only provocative BECAUSE they're on the other side. Do people go nuts when the Indians, Japanese, or the Russians launches rockets? It's N.Korea's political situation that made the launch controversial, nothing about the actual act itself is inherently provocative.

I mean, what are you gonna say to them? "How DARE you do....the same thing we do all the time...?"

And FYI, N.Korea suffers plenty from the sanctions, it's just that the regime passes on the suffering to the people instead.
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Old 2012-12-13, 06:35   Link #25100
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