[MANGA] Bleach Weekly Chapter 500+ Discussion

[Tong]

Strength is actually co-related with their current state, namely Ukitake being sick and Yamamoto old.

[MAX_COLA_POWER!]

Based on recent events, how would you guys re-make the chart? I'd probably make it a bit more casual since charts tend to bore people sometimes. Take Yachiru-Classic for example. Her stats, based on recent developments should be: Strength: Broken, Offensive Power: Underestimate her and she'll find YOU offensive, and dead, Defense: She's the Wailing wall, as in the wall that makes her opponents wail. Mobility: Don't blink, otherwise you'll miss the small dose of possible cleavage you'll get to see before you die, Kidou: Boss, Intellect: Is Sexy teacher a rank? Cause she's above that.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

what's the deal with this chart? it seems pretty off, the most glaring example is komamura being way over powered here. highest ranks on strength, offense and defense? no way

The chart is taken from the bootleg data book and is officel from Kubo and is the stats shortly after the SS arc. Koma realy is that over powered he takes massive amounts of damage, high health/fitness, can do massive amounts of damage if he hits, high offensive power, and is good at defence. All the stacks that took him out bypassed defence or took advantage of his low speed.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Kanon

This chart is only an indicator of their potential, and obviously they do not all have equal potentials. The numbers do not hold the same values for everybody. Kenpachi's 80 in defense is probably superior to Komamura's 100. Hitting the max number, 100, means they have mastered that field and can't possibly get stronger (remember, each shinigami has a limit they can only overcome with hollowfication). A lower number means they can still improve through training, or in Yamamoto's case that age or another factor has degraded their abilities. That's it.

This sounds right, since no one would think Komamura's offensive power was equal to the Captain Commander's. Not when both are at full power, anyway. Sure, he's strong, but clearly there's a difference. Unless 100 actually means "100 or more".

[sayde]

Originally Posted by GDB

This sounds right, since no one would think Komamura's offensive power was equal to the Captain Commander's. Not when both are at full power, anyway. Sure, he's strong, but clearly there's a difference. Unless 100 actually means "100 or more".

^^This x100. Its nice to see someone else realize how this data shouldn't be used to compare captains against each other. For instance, we know Aizen's 100 strength stat is superior to Komamura's 100 strength stat because we've actually seen multiple instances of Aizen physically overpowering Komamura directly. In short, the numbers mean different things for different captains.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by sayde

Its nice to see someone else realize how this data shouldn't be used to compare captains against each other.

well pardon me for thinking 100 = 100 in a comparison chart... seriously though, thanks for the explanations. I prefer the max individual level explanation (although it makes no sense for the intellect column since you're saying some people can get smarter and others can't...), but I still don't really like the chart since i think 100 should be given out very sparingly. there's almost always room for a little improvement through training. yama-jii having power 100s and mayuri having intellect 100 are fine. things like that. but too many 100s for my taste. also, like Max Cola Power said, things have clearly changed after the SS arc. I dont think TK even likes his own chart

For instance, we know Aizen's 100 strength stat is superior to Komamura's 100 strength stat because we've actually seen multiple instances of Aizen physically overpowering Komamura directly. In short, the numbers mean different things for different captains.

exactly why it makes no sense but whatever, it's cool

[Chiaki_chan]

Originally Posted by Tong

As much as Unohana is strong, war potentials are probably Special beings. I'm guessing they could be either an arrancar or someone in Zero division, or maybe someone we've never seen before.

But just made ​​that Unohana is "the first Kenpachi" and therefore has a fighting power Fenomenale should be sufficient for one of five potential war ... Because Juha Bach I am sure know Unohana was the first Kenpachi you do not agree??

[sayde]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

well pardon me for thinking 100 = 100 in a comparison chart... seriously though, thanks for the explanations.

I do apologize if that came off sounding offensive in any way. I blame it on the pent up frustration I've got from seeing that data get misinterpreted across various message boards for years. I personally only interpret the data to represent a captains proficiency in regards to using the various traits listed. So a captain with a 100 stat in a given trait will have no trouble utilizing that trait in battle and developing it further with full efficiency.

[Tong]

Originally Posted by Chiaki_chan

But just made ​​that Unohana is "the first Kenpachi" and therefore has a fighting power Fenomenale should be sufficient for one of five potential war ... Because Juha Bach I am sure know Unohana was the first Kenpachi you do not agree??

Sure, Juha may know that. Though, I get the feeling that with proper training Zaraki may become even stronger that Unohana.
Pretty sure Juha would take that in consideration.

[Tempest35]

Well, if Juha would have recognized Unohana Retsu as Yachiru Kenpachi, he would have made sure to kill her too. But if it was let out that Yachiru Kenpachi had ceased to exist a few centuries before...then all the more reason for Yama-jii to keep her out of sight if he wanted to have a trump card waiting for the Quincy. .. but he didn't want her fighting at ALL...which is puzzling.
Why hide the world's biggest sucker puncher in Unohana from participating in the battle...?

[Chiaki_chan]

Originally Posted by Tempest35

Well, if Juha would have recognized Unohana Retsu as Yachiru Kenpachi, he would have made sure to kill her too. But if it was let out that Yachiru Kenpachi had ceased to exist a few centuries before...then all the more reason for Yama-jii to keep her out of sight if he wanted to have a trump card waiting for the Quincy. .. but he didn't want her fighting at ALL...which is puzzling.
Why hide the world's biggest sucker puncher in Unohana from participating in the battle...?

Yamamoto wanted to keep in reserve for the next battle then I would say that Unohana one war potential but ... imagine not, so the Juha Bach did not consider the potential for war and do not attack you may be sending Ritters Stern in his division probably because ... Juha Bach know now she do not want to fight and maybe it is his he does not consider it a potential war because it does not see you as a "threat" to them ...

But ... if this is the reason then Juha Bach will be very surprised seeing Unohana in the battlefield you agree with me??

"In the field of war :

- Juha Bach: HAHAHA we'll kill Shini-!??
- Unohana : ...
- Juha Bach : Ho SHIT Unohana!!!?? O.O!!!
- Unohana: I kill you ... "

[xky]

Originally Posted by Tempest35

Well, if Juha would have recognized Unohana Retsu as Yachiru Kenpachi, he would have made sure to kill her too. But if it was let out that Yachiru Kenpachi had ceased to exist a few centuries before...then all the more reason for Yama-jii to keep her out of sight if he wanted to have a trump card waiting for the Quincy. .. but he didn't want her fighting at ALL...which is puzzling.
Why hide the world's biggest sucker puncher in Unohana from participating in the battle...?

Yama-jii took a chance that if he defeated Juha Bach, Unohana wouldn't have to fight anymore. But since he failed, here comes plan B...

[The Small One]

Originally Posted by Chiaki_chan

But just made ​​that Unohana is "the first Kenpachi" and therefore has a fighting power Fenomenale should be sufficient for one of five potential war ... Because Juha Bach I am sure know Unohana was the first Kenpachi you do not agree??

Her fighting power doesn't need to be especially great.
She was the first Kenpachi. It's a name given to the most powerful fighter, but since she was the first, it logically means, that all the others, who came after her were more powerful (if not, she would have kept the title).
So basically we know nothing about her power, except that she once was powerful… but since she is insanely old, this could have been at a time, when someone like Hanatarou was considered strong.

[Tempest35]

^ She could have just walked away from 11th Div and left the title of 'Kenpachi' for the next captain. Hell, she could have started the 'rule' that the 11th Div head will be called 'Kenpachi'. Since she didn't want to be the head any longer, she dropped it. If she was defeated, then she could have kept her name 'Yachiru' instead of opting to use 'Retsu' instead. People usually forego mentioning their names if it will land them in unwanted trouble and in her case, she'd be recieving challenges from the subsequent 'Kenpachis' if they knew she was there. A chance to measure up to the original - there's no fighter that would pass up that chance.

It's like the chance for ttoday's MMA fighters to go a few rounds against Bruce Lee himself if he was discovered to be alive. Honestly, what fighter going for glory wouldn't do anything to get a chance to be the one to defeat the Bruce Lee?

Yachiru Kenpachi isn't suppose to be around any more. If judging by her reaction, she never wanted to revert back to her 'Kenpachi' days, but necessity is calling it back out.

And as for being older, standards were lower then, I don't think as much. I mean, 10-15 years ago, the Army Physical Fitness tests were HARDER than they are today. A '100' for pushups today is around 77 max. Back then, it was around 88 or something. Situps today is 82, back then, 92. 2-mile run max is 12:50 or something. Back then - 11:45. Just because more time has passed doesn't mean that we've gotten stronger by any measure. Our tech increases, which lowers the amount of physical work that we actually have to do. Back then, Unohana and the other older captians probably didn't have as much Bakudo and Kido techniques - they had to rely more on their actual physical fighting techniques. How did Yama beat Wonderwies - he layeth an old'skool beatdown on him - pure fighing - no fancy Kido. The older you go back, the more physical things were - that goes very much so for real-life and it can probably apply to back then as well.

[MAX_COLA_POWER!]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Her fighting power doesn't need to be especially great.
She was the first Kenpachi. It's a name given to the most powerful fighter, but since she was the first, it logically means, that all the others, who came after her were more powerful (if not, she would have kept the title).
So basically we know nothing about her power, except that she once was powerful… but since she is insanely old, this could have been at a time, when someone like Hanatarou was considered strong.

So if we go by that logic, that would make Soifon the weakest captain of the gotei and Jushiro the strongest since 13's higher than 2. If that's true, then what you say makes total sense to me since clearly Yachiru-Classic didn't have an event in her life that was so traumatize that it made her change her ways and become more of a healer than a fighter and after having her leader die and having her own healing teacher telling her to go back to the way she used to be, which Kubo himself said during the 3 week hiatus that when Yachiru-Classic goes into battle mode her hair braid gets loose, because clearly she didn't just give up her Kenpachi title willingly to let each generation have their own out of her own free will, because clearly each Kenpachi is stronger than the next which explains why Kenny, though I love him to death, got owned by Tien Shinhan's hippy twin. No, what you said makes perfect sense to me.

[Libros]

Originally Posted by Tempest35

^ She could have just walked away from 11th Div and left the title of 'Kenpachi' for the next captain. Hell, she could have started the 'rule' that the 11th Div head will be called 'Kenpachi'. Since she didn't want to be the head any longer, she dropped it. If she was defeated, then she could have kept her name 'Yachiru' instead of opting to use 'Retsu' instead. People usually forego mentioning their names if it will land them in unwanted trouble and in her case, she'd be recieving challenges from the subsequent 'Kenpachis' if they knew she was there. A chance to measure up to the original - there's no fighter that would pass up that chance.

It's like the chance for ttoday's MMA fighters to go a few rounds against Bruce Lee himself if he was discovered to be alive. Honestly, what fighter going for glory wouldn't do anything to get a chance to be the one to defeat the Bruce Lee?

Yachiru Kenpachi isn't suppose to be around any more. If judging by her reaction, she never wanted to revert back to her 'Kenpachi' days, but necessity is calling it back out.

And as for being older, standards were lower then, I don't think as much. I mean, 10-15 years ago, the Army Physical Fitness tests were HARDER than they are today. A '100' for pushups today is around 77 max. Back then, it was around 88 or something. Situps today is 82, back then, 92. 2-mile run max is 12:50 or something. Back then - 11:45. Just because more time has passed doesn't mean that we've gotten stronger by any measure. Our tech increases, which lowers the amount of physical work that we actually have to do. Back then, Unohana and the other older captians probably didn't have as much Bakudo and Kido techniques - they had to rely more on their actual physical fighting techniques. How did Yama beat Wonderwies - he layeth an old'skool beatdown on him - pure fighing - no fancy Kido. The older you go back, the more physical things were - that goes very much so for real-life and it can probably apply to back then as well.

X Mma fighter versus Bruce Lee in his prime or as he would be if he were discovered alive today?

[Tong]

Maybe she didn't drop the title because she got bested, and yes, due to certain circumstances probably related to not wanting to fight anymore.

[WONDERMIKE]

Captain Commander please get your eyeball healed at once. Peeking at girls is much more fun in 3D Vision!

Originally Posted by The Small One

Her fighting power doesn't need to be especially great.
She was the first Kenpachi. It's a name given to the most powerful fighter, but since she was the first, it logically means, that all the others, who came after her were more powerful (if not, she would have kept the title).

she could have stepped down from the "Kenpachi title" for various reasons, it doesn't have to do with her actual power at all

[Eragon]

Holy Shit!! Re-Yachiru looked so eerie. Nobody and I mean nobody has looked so frigging cold and emotionless till now, IMO.
And in all honesty arguing about powerlevels at this point, in this manga, is moot. Since all it takes to get anyone, except Ichigo, is an utterly ridiculous asspull. The word 'Strongest' has lost its meaning and weight in Bleach. The ridiculous amount powerups Ichigo has gotten just renders everyone else's powerlevel pointless.

[amaterasu4]

Maybe Unohana is actually the most overpowered character in the series (even more overpowered than Kenpachi) and they made her a medic so that she would not kill eveybody in the battlefield... sounds like a Chuck Norris joke.

The ridiculous amount powerups Ichigo has gotten just renders everyone else's powerlevel pointless.

And yet he is still weaker than in the Arrancar arc.