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Old 2012-12-14, 20:22   Link #21861
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Chaos, there is one hole in your theory.
If what you have stated is true, then why Accelerator, even not in his angel state, felt pressured by the prescene of magic and vice versa?
In his normal state, he certainly could not maintain the other worldly laws alone.
Well considering it didn't have the similar symptoms of magic mixed with Personal Reality (exploding blood vessels) it's safe to say it's not the same but rather something else.

Then there's also this part that people seem to overlook.

Quote:
The hand that had held the handgun was hurting for a reason other than fatigue.
He didn’t know why, but this had been happening ever since he had first met the guy a few days ago. Whenever Unabara Mitsuki was nearby, his fingertips would tremble unconsciously. And he would feel a pressure on his chest like there was a basketball there.

One thing always came to his mind when it happened.

(Kihara Amata.)

The pouring rain, a dull pain, and the iron-like taste and smell of blood.

(Last Order.)

That small life that had been tormented by unreasonable violence and seemed like it could slip away even now.

And…

(…Those black wings that appeared on my back.)

It was nothing more than a vague, abstract image in his head. He had only started to become aware of that existence when he had joined GROUP…no, it had actually been from the point when he had crushed the researcher known as Kihara Amata.
I'm not entirely sure what to think of it, but my hypothesis is that being connected to the network and Kazakiri...

Quote:
The numerical settings for the AIM diffusion fields were just finished being inputted into the vector control device

...Has somehow made him more aware of these other unknown values (magic).
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Old 2012-12-14, 20:56   Link #21862
shmaster
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But there has to be a reason why mana makes him feel uncomfortable. Mana in its prescence only does not make you feel that way.
Or else Tsuchimikato would be feeling bad every moment of his life.
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Old 2012-12-14, 21:06   Link #21863
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Well considering it didn't have the similar symptoms of magic mixed with Personal Reality (exploding blood vessels) it's safe to say it's not the same but rather something else.

Then there's also this part that people seem to overlook.



I'm not entirely sure what to think of it, but my hypothesis is that being connected to the network and Kazakiri...




...Has somehow made him more aware of these other unknown values (magic).
You sure that refers to Magic? It seems more like it's referring to his Angel nature
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Old 2012-12-14, 21:25   Link #21864
Mr.Kyon
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Couldn't that be related to the fact that scientific angels (Kazakiri, Kakine and Accelerator, Aiwass) and magical angels (Michael, Gabriel, etc) might overlap? What I mean is that they share similar properties and characteristics even when using two vastly different methods, and they speak the same divine language. I don't think what made Accelerator aware has anything to do with the network and Kazakiri tbh. I think his first awakening made him subconsciously aware of these unknown values.

Think of Magic and Science as two circles overlapping. At the center, there would be things that apply to both of them. Angels are entities that reach a greater understanding of the world and inevitably become aware of those other laws in that enlightened state. Accelerator saw the center, and vaguely felt that there's another set of laws on the boundaries, around the edges...

Honestly, Kamachi should have Aiwass, Aleister, Accelerator and Kamijou sitting around the kotatsu as an epilogue to the series explaining all this system once and for all.
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Old 2012-12-14, 21:58   Link #21865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
But there has to be a reason why mana makes him feel uncomfortable. Mana in its prescence only does not make you feel that way.
Or else Tsuchimikato would be feeling bad every moment of his life.
Not necessarily, after all Tsuchimikado doesn't have his magic activated all the time.

And another thing, correct me if I'm wrong but the Lamb-Skin document itself wasn't magical right? It just contain magic knowledge, yet Accelerator had also felt that strange pressure off from it.

All in all it seems to be a phenomenon that Accelerator experienced solely- Hence why I tribute it to his subconscious data gathering ability.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
You sure that refers to Magic? It seems more like it's referring to his Angel nature
*shrugged*

At this point I'm open to anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Kyon View Post
Honestly, Kamachi should have Aiwass, Aleister, Accelerator and Kamijou sitting around the kotatsu as an epilogue to the series explaining all this system once and for all.
Doesn't mean we would still understand it
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Old 2012-12-15, 03:56   Link #21866
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Not necessarily, after all Tsuchimikado doesn't have his magic activated all the time.

And another thing, correct me if I'm wrong but the Lamb-Skin document itself wasn't magical right? It just contain magic knowledge, yet Accelerator had also felt that strange pressure off from it.
Even just writing down magical knowledge gives something power in Index-verse it seems. Idol theory and the signs that Gremlin's mercenaries made Accelerator involuntarily do to induce magic feedback shock in him in Hawaii...etc. Just the image of it seems to be enough
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Old 2012-12-15, 03:59   Link #21867
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Even just writing down magical knowledge gives something power in Index-verse it seems. Idol theory and the signs that Gremlin's mercenaries made Accelerator involuntarily do to induce magic feedback shock in him in Hawaii...etc. Just the image of it seems to be enough

But the incident in Hawaii has Accelerator actually initialing the spell while in Russia he was just reading it so there's a difference.
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Old 2012-12-15, 04:00   Link #21868
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
But the incident in Hawaii has Accelerator actually initialing the spell while in Russia he was just reading it so there's a difference.
He initiate it by going through the motions. See...who knows that his reading and using of the information of the Lamb Skin did not cause him to actually utilize Magic
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Old 2012-12-15, 04:31   Link #21869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
He initiate it by going through the motions. See...who knows that his reading and using of the information of the Lamb Skin did not cause him to actually utilize Magic
Blood not everywhere for one thing.

Even in NT2 where he briefly invoke something just short of being called a magic spell, he was still using his full concentration to not explode.

Again, this strange pressure is a different reaction than when Esper uses magic and violently explodes from within. Plus this is something that only Accelerator experienced, other Espers like Mikoto and Kuroko who had came into contact with Magicians didn't experience anything.
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Old 2012-12-15, 05:52   Link #21870
tsunade666
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Its probably his nature as a aim angel hybrid.
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Old 2012-12-15, 05:55   Link #21871
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
Its probably his nature as a aim angel hybrid.
Possibly, that's what I brought up in the beginning and the narrative does sort of hints at it.

I haven't done any checking on NT2/3, but does anyone remember if they mentioned Accelerator having those strange feelings when near magicians like Bardway etc. ?
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Old 2012-12-15, 08:01   Link #21872
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Nope, but he can sense they are using different laws and powers than him. Like the magicians in Russia.

And Accel also produce the same result towards Unabara and Tsuchimikad right? though I can't check in vol 19 but aren't those 2 can also feel Accelerator like how Accelerator can feel something off on those 2.
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Old 2012-12-15, 08:19   Link #21873
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
Nope, but he can sense they are using different laws and powers than him. Like the magicians in Russia.
I recall that the magicians in Russia still gave off that weird feeling-

Quote:
There were around 20 men and women who were all wearing identical clothing.

Accelerator frowned at the fact that they seemed to be wearing some kind of old religious habits as opposed to military uniforms that were collections of cutting edge technology. He felt the same pressure as from Unabara or the parchments.

One of them spoke in Russian.
This continued whenever Accelerator encountered magic in Russia, especially the Angels... It's strange if this phenomenon stopped after that, or just lost focus now that he knows about magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
And Accel also produce the same result towards Unabara and Tsuchimikad right? though I can't check in vol 19 but aren't those 2 can also feel Accelerator like how Accelerator can feel something off on those 2.
I don't recall whether they felt anything from them actually.

A quick word search on Volume 19 showed an absent of Accelerator talking about that pressure when around Etzali.
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Old 2012-12-15, 09:53   Link #21874
tsunade666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
I recall that the magicians in Russia still gave off that weird feeling-
---------------------------------------------------------
I don't recall whether they felt anything from them actually.

A quick word search on Volume 19 showed an absent of Accelerator talking about that pressure when around Etzali.
okay so the thing he felt is the pressure about them which is the same thing he felt on Unabara and Tshuchimikado and he knows those two are different somehow from the esper. So instead of direct power its pressure.

I'm not sure on it but I will try to reread it. Well its christmas vacation and I'm planning to reread the whole thing from vol 1 to get better grasp of things but I just remember that a talk before was done here when tsuchimikado and unabara felt someone on Accelerator and it start the whole aim pressure. Its probably around the time when vol 19 is being translated. hmm..... rereading it is the best course of action.
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Old 2012-12-15, 10:35   Link #21875
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Wow, what a nice talk, but I missed it .
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Old 2012-12-15, 19:45   Link #21876
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Blood not everywhere for one thing.

Even in NT2 where he briefly invoke something just short of being called a magic spell, he was still using his full concentration to not explode.

Again, this strange pressure is a different reaction than when Esper uses magic and violently explodes from within. Plus this is something that only Accelerator experienced, other Espers like Mikoto and Kuroko who had came into contact with Magicians didn't experience anything.
Yet Mikoto and Kuroko did not actually use magic. And hoiw often did they run into magic?

And he was straining against the effort on his body in vol 22...


Anyway, the thing inside him that he does not yet understand is most likely his latent Angel nature
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Old 2012-12-15, 19:55   Link #21877
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Yet Mikoto and Kuroko did not actually use magic. And hoiw often did they run into magic?

And he was straining against the effort on his body in vol 22...


Anyway, the thing inside him that he does not yet understand is most likely his latent Angel nature
I think there's some kind of confusion here because I'm not sure what you're trying to say

To bring anything back on to point, what I'm saying is that the unknown pressure Accelerator felt is not the same as when an Esper uses magic and his/her body rejects it.

This is because shmaster brought up this phenomenon when I present the theory earlier about AIM itself not being the reason for the reject of magic, but rather the change in laws within the Espers that is the cause- The Imaginary Number District is a large scale projection of those laws.

In conclusion, I don't think the strange pressure is connected to the rejection of magic though I can see why they would be viewed as similar.
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Old 2012-12-15, 23:29   Link #21878
Javiersansano
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I Just finished reading NT vol. 2, and I have only read volumes 1-22, including ss 1 and 2, nt 1-2, and SP

In order to not miss any important events, should I read any of the sidestories available in this page http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...jutsu_no_Index , or is it safe to go on with NT vol. 3?

thanks

Bt the way, I havent read railgund manga nor watched the anime
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Old 2012-12-15, 23:34   Link #21879
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javiersansano View Post
I Just finished reading NT vol. 2, and I have only read volumes 1-22, including ss 1 and 2, nt 1-2, and SP

In order to not miss any important events, should I read any of the sidestories available in this page http://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/in...jutsu_no_Index , or is it safe to go on with NT vol. 3?

Hmmm... The events of the sidestories aren't absolutely important, but they do introduce some characters that would appear later in New Testament... Like Bardway and her manservant Mark Spacer which you would have seen in NT2- Both of them have a past run in with Kamijou and Index.... As well as the 'Beautiful Sempai' Kumokawa Seria though her role for now seem to just be a cameo...

Unless you're bothered by those things, I would say it's safe to just proceed.

For the record, I myself didn't read any of the side stories aside from SS1 and a few selected chapters of SS2
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Old 2012-12-16, 09:57   Link #21880
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
I think there's some kind of confusion here because I'm not sure what you're trying to say

To bring anything back on to point, what I'm saying is that the unknown pressure Accelerator felt is not the same as when an Esper uses magic and his/her body rejects it.

This is because shmaster brought up this phenomenon when I present the theory earlier about AIM itself not being the reason for the reject of magic, but rather the change in laws within the Espers that is the cause- The Imaginary Number District is a large scale projection of those laws.

In conclusion, I don't think the strange pressure is connected to the rejection of magic though I can see why they would be viewed as similar.
When I say reading and utlizing the Lamb Skin I meant to cure LO. I know what you are trying to say, but the thing is, the Lamb Skin did hurt him.




Any references in the text to something hidden in him is very likely to be his Angel nature
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