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Old 2012-12-14, 23:19   Link #25221
sneaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
East Germany was poorer than West Germany, but it was still the most prosperous Warsaw Pact country. The gap between the Koreas is orders of magnitude greater than between the two Germanies before unification.
Yeah, East Germany wasn't actually that poor, it's just that West Germany was so extremely rich. The East German economy was somewhere between the Netherlands and Switzerland. And much larger than that of South Korea of that time, btw.
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Old 2012-12-14, 23:28   Link #25222
SeijiSensei
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Apropos of flying's posting, I came across this study by the New York Times in 2000 after the Columbine shootings. They compiled a database of 100 "rampage attacks" dating back to 1949 and examined all the available evidence on the perpetrators involved.

TL;DR…
 
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Old 2012-12-15, 01:04   Link #25223
PzIVf3
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What is wrong with their country?

Internet Identifies, Threatens Wrong Man as Newtown Shooter

In the media’s rush to find out information on the suspected Newtown, Connecticut, school shooter, numerous news outlets misidentified a Facebook page belonging to someone with a similar name. Denunciations and even death threats quickly accumulated.

CNN, the Huffington Post, Slate and other news organizations pointed to the Facebook page of one Ryan Lanza, who hails from Newtown and currently lives in New Jersey. “Ryan Lanza Facebook Page Shows Suggestive Details Of Apparent Newtown, Connecticut Shooting Suspect,” was Huffington Post’s original headline before it realized the error. As of 5 p.m. EST, the Connecticut state police are declining to identify the shooter.

Full Article
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012...oter-facebook/
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Old 2012-12-15, 01:13   Link #25224
NoemiChan
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What the hell are these shootings? These make me believe that there is a cult that encourages these gruesome behaviors!!!!
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Old 2012-12-15, 05:11   Link #25225
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
What happened between when I graduated from high school and these sorts of incidents?
The mass defunding of public mental health organizations, for one. Just on my bus ride to school during the week, I'll see at least two or three people on the streets who clearly are not right in the head and should not be left to fend for themselves. Some of these people don't even realize where they are, what's going on around them, and they're just left to their own devices.
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Old 2012-12-15, 06:23   Link #25226
ChainLegacy
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It's hard to deny that the root causes of such behavior need to be studied. Considering that many people go through frustrating, tragic, and terrible circumstances, but never resort to such heinous acts, it is likely a case of unbalanced mental health with some degree of genetics, being triggered by culture and environment. It can be hard for me to think constructively in the face of killing children (and indeed I did not have any constructive thoughts until sleeping on it and avoiding news of it for a while), since I cannot wrap my head around the act and feel irrationally angry even trying to contemplate it. I assume most people are the same way and the inherent desire for 'justice' and 'punishment' leaves the solution-finding process on the backburner. I just wonder how much we can actually solve by our current medical/psychological system. Based on both research and personal experience, I don't really have faith in it, and just throwing money at mental institutions/psychiatrists/mental health providers may not do much. There has to be an attempt to actually study and understand. Unfortunately, I can't help but feel some of these types may simply be inevitable. The human brain being as complex as it is, there are so many simple mutations or inherited differences that can be exacerbated and stretched by experience into what an average person would consider bizarre or unthinkable behavior.
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Old 2012-12-15, 11:25   Link #25227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
I just wonder how much we can actually solve by our current medical/psychological system. Based on both research and personal experience, I don't really have faith in it, and just throwing money at mental institutions/psychiatrists/mental health providers may not do much. There has to be an attempt to actually study and understand. Unfortunately, I can't help but feel some of these types may simply be inevitable. The human brain being as complex as it is, there are so many simple mutations or inherited differences that can be exacerbated and stretched by experience into what an average person would consider bizarre or unthinkable behavior.
For some people the issue is likely true insanity due to chemical imbalances in the brain, but who says it always has to be something physiological? Many of these people are subjected to environmental stresses, with feelings of isolation being a big one that I notice frequently being linked to these types of stories. You can hype them up on as many drugs as you want but if the underlying issues aren't addressed then a problem can still arise.

The solution in those cases is more likely to be therapy, but that takes time, money, and effort from the individual. We as a society have set ourselves up for trouble here. Since we live in a "pill culture" many are unprepared for the work that they need to do on their end, and they grow frustrated when it is revealed that therapy is completed over the span of months and years, rather than days and weeks, and that even at the conclusion of therapy they may never be "100% cured."

Insurance also makes this a bit more difficult; I don't know exactly how mental health has been impacted, but I've heard from physical therapists that therapy that once was completed over the span of months (sometimes going over a year) is now done in the short course of a few weeks, all due to insurance demands.

Lastly, it doesn't help that we're all becoming withdrawn into ourselves. There are many reasons for it, but people don't reach out to each other or express interest in those around them so much these days. There's something that each of us can do, then: don't be afraid to connect with the people we pass by each day. Who knows? Perhaps saying a few words and sharing a short conversation with a stranger could be the act that they need to be pulled out of a dark place.
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Old 2012-12-15, 11:52   Link #25228
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
For some people the issue is likely true insanity due to chemical imbalances in the brain, but who says it always has to be something physiological? Many of these people are subjected to environmental stresses, with feelings of isolation being a big one that I notice frequently being linked to these types of stories. You can hype them up on as many drugs as you want but if the underlying issues aren't addressed then a problem can still arise.

The solution in those cases is more likely to be therapy, but that takes time, money, and effort from the individual. We as a society have set ourselves up for trouble here. Since we live in a "pill culture" many are unprepared for the work that they need to do on their end, and they grow frustrated when it is revealed that therapy is completed over the span of months and years, rather than days and weeks, and that even at the conclusion of therapy they may never be "100% cured."

Insurance also makes this a bit more difficult; I don't know exactly how mental health has been impacted, but I've heard from physical therapists that therapy that once was completed over the span of months (sometimes going over a year) is now done in the short course of a few weeks, all due to insurance demands.

Lastly, it doesn't help that we're all becoming withdrawn into ourselves. There are many reasons for it, but people don't reach out to each other or express interest in those around them so much these days. There's something that each of us can do, then: don't be afraid to connect with the people we pass by each day. Who knows? Perhaps saying a few words and sharing a short conversation with a stranger could be the act that they need to be pulled out of a dark place.
I don't buy into the whole "chemical imbalances" that can be balanced out with certain medication -- like I said above, based on personal experience, but also due to testimonials of their lack of efficacy, as well as the fact that we don't know how these chemicals truly affect the brain (and in some cases they are even analogues of chemicals found in poisonous plant species). Not to mention the side effects even in people for whom they "work." Needless to say I'm very, very skeptical of the pharmaceutical industry and think the 'pill culture' you referenced is especially detrimental to the health of this country in the long term. I'm more familiar with nutrition (which, tangentially but not really related to this subject, I think should be given greater focus in treating psychological conditions) and see how this "pill popping" mindset can easily lead people towards developing diabetes and then helplessly wallowing in the condition, taking medication rather than taking control of their lives through proper diet and lifestyle. This is an epidemic and I fear the "fix it with a pill" mindset will lead many of these people to decreased quality of life and, in some cases, an earlier grave.

That being said, there are inherent differences in how our minds work and even if they are relatively minor, they can be bent into many different ways by our environment. Under certain stressors some may have the genetic heritage to develop "fine" with no residual problems, whereas some do snap and commit acts we can't fathom. I'm not suggesting these people have a "disorder" (which I think is part of the overly label-happy problem of psychiatry), but they do have inherent traits, or combinations of traits, that make them react a certain way under certain conditions, while another person may turn out completely differently. And I suspect that there are likely common traits of which we are not yet aware that are seen in all of these cases. Traits that, had these people never been exposed to the feelings of isolation, or abuse, or whatever other trauma - would go unnoticed and not necessarily present a hindrance.

Nonetheless, the traits exist, so under these conditions the problems arise. There are reasons why some people can crawl their way out of the worst upbringing and succeed, sometimes even better than the average person, whereas another individual could become an abuser themselves, or remain depressed/unfulfilled/etc for years to come. I do not ascribe to the simplistic notion of just writing it off as "character differences..." They are character differences on a macro scale, but I am certain there are micro genetic differences that lead to these different reactions from people in very similar situations. If we could isolate and understand what these "trigger genetics" were then perhaps we'd be better prepared to stave off such occurrences. It's not a foolproof solution, but it may be the best bet in terms of future research.
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Old 2012-12-15, 11:53   Link #25229
Cream
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The Massacre in newtown is scary and all but i don't think precautions will be taken to prevent these types of things and with all the news coverage it provides hell, it might even provoke others to take this route. This is possibly the most amount of media CT has ever gotten.

I guess we'll just wait a couple weeks for this to blow over and maybe, maybe once a year we'll look back on this day to pray for 2 minutes. Aside from the family's that were effected and the kids that were possibly traumatized, it'll barely be memoriable. My condolences go out to those parents who have to burry their children instead of the other way around.
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Old 2012-12-15, 11:56   Link #25230
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
The mass defunding of public mental health organizations, for one. Just on my bus ride to school during the week, I'll see at least two or three people on the streets who clearly are not right in the head and should not be left to fend for themselves. Some of these people don't even realize where they are, what's going on around them, and they're just left to their own devices.
I know the old mental institutions had serious abuses, and I know out ability to treat the mentally ill is often problematic but...when you hear about all these mass shootings, you almost wonder if being able to institutionalize some people was for the best.


What the mental institutes needed was reform to combat the abuses that happened in them. Shutting the institutes down completely was too radical and naive of a move. I don't think what we currently do is working remotely. When certain people have these kind of problems, having themselves (or even their family) try to deal with it just doesn't seem like it works.
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Old 2012-12-15, 12:01   Link #25231
Urzu 7
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Gotta love the news media. Notice the guy had a comment for her.


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Old 2012-12-15, 12:24   Link #25232
SeijiSensei
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Deinstitutionalization certainly seems more humane, but it only works if we're willing to invest the resources required to treat people outside the institutions. That requires a level of collective effort and empathy which many Americans seem incapable of these days. You only have to recall the infamous Republican candidate debate in 2011 where audience members shouted their approval of letting someone die rather than using public funds to treat him. This came on the heels of applause for the 234 executions conducted under Texas governor Rick Perry a few weeks before.

We have become a callous, selfish, and narcissistic culture with a penchant for violence. I wonder how Americans who lived through the collective privations of World War II would feel if they saw the country today. I know my parents would have been disgusted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
Gotta love the news media. Notice the guy had a comment for her.
Watching those interviews with eight-year-olds yesterday made me sick. I have even less respect for the adults who let that happen, seduced no doubt by the desire to see themselves or their children on national television.
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Old 2012-12-15, 12:27   Link #25233
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
Gotta love the news media. Notice the guy had a comment for her.
They are like sharks, eating only the wounded and the frail.

Last edited by mangamuscle; 2012-12-15 at 12:37.
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Old 2012-12-15, 12:33   Link #25234
Anh_Minh
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Eh. At least that one got the answer she deserved.
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Old 2012-12-15, 14:17   Link #25235
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Eh. At least that one got the answer she deserved.
Seriously though, I wonder if the answer would be different if she used "please" and "thank you" in that request.
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Old 2012-12-15, 14:39   Link #25236
flying ^
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... logged in on facebook and then I saw this pic.

Spoiler for There's some cold, hard truth into this.
:
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Old 2012-12-15, 14:46   Link #25237
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
... logged in on facebook and then I saw this pic.

Spoiler for There's some cold, hard truth into this.
:
The problem isn't god but human and morality.
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Old 2012-12-15, 14:49   Link #25238
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
... logged in on facebook and then I saw this pic.

Spoiler for There's some cold, hard truth into this.
:
the huckbee brigade
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Old 2012-12-15, 15:05   Link #25239
RRW
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College Students Who Study Abroad Found to Be at Greater Risk of Sexual Assault

Quote:
A study led by Matthew Kimble, a psychologist at Middlebury College in Vermont, finds that studying abroad greatly increases a woman’s chances of being sexually assaulted during their college years. Kimble surveyed a large group of women students on their experiences with nonconsensual touching, attempted assault, and rape.
http://www.wiareport.com/2012/12/col...exual-assault/
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Old 2012-12-15, 15:47   Link #25240
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
... logged in on facebook and then I saw this pic.

Spoiler for There's some cold, hard truth into this.
:
More like delusional fantasy, but carry on. We'll get the popcorn. The assertion is unrelated to the facts.
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