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Old 2012-12-12, 19:34   Link #1
relentlessflame
 
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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The AnimeSuki Forum Reputation System has been retired

The AnimeSuki Forum Staff would like to announce that the Reputation System on AnimeSuki Forums has been retired.

On 15 December 2012: Reputation was frozen at then-current levels, and Forum Members could no longer issue any new rep.

On 24 December 2012: The reputation system was disabled. Any accumulated rep points no longer appear next to your posts, and the "Latest Reputation Received" section is no longer be visible in your User CP.


Why this change?
The Reputation System was introduced in November 2003. Since that time, a rather large discrepancy has formed between the rep power of certain long-time members and those of newer members, which affects the overall balance of the point system. In addition, it has been noted by the staff (and many forum members) that the reputation system as currently implemented has resulted in some behaviour that could be seen as negative, such as "anonymous coward" negative rep (including nasty or inappropriate rep comments), and a general preoccupation with the "power" some people feel reputation points represent (including the formation of "cliques" who encourage each other via rep). The intention of the reputation system was to provide a simple and fun way to give feedback to other posters (and to reward posters who made positive contributions to the Forum), but the staff are not convinced that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks at this time. This decision was reached after many months of consideration among the staff, and the current timing was chosen so that we can enter the Holiday season and the New Year with a fresh start.

How should I give feedback about posts instead?
Since the system was introduced, we have introduced other new ways to give feedback, including the Visitor Message system. We would encourage posters to provide feedback via VM, or via Private Message if you'd prefer to keep things private. Of course, you may also reply directly in the threads, but please do not post in the thread only to offer thanks or to make trivial comments like "I agree" (please see our Forum Rule about useful posts).

Will there be a new system like reputation in the future?
At this time, the existing reputation system will be retired, and the Forum will run without any reputation system. After the Forum has run this way for a while, the staff will consider whether there is a need to introduce a new system. If a new post feedback system is introduced, all existing reputation points will be eliminated and all reputation power reset such that everyone will be given a "fresh start" under whatever rules a new system may involve. However, at this time, there are no established plans to introduce a new reputation or post feedback system.

How can I give my feedback about this change?
While the decision to retire the current system is final, the staff are open to a discussion that may impact the future direction for possible new feedback systems that could be developed. You may leave your comments in this thread (yes, this one).


The staff would like to thank all Forum Members who make positive contributions to the Forum, and those Forum Members who used their reputation power over the years to encourage positive, constructive forum behaviour. While the reputation system is being retired, we hope that we can continue to work together to make this the most fun, engaging, and insightful community for Anime and related discussion online. We covet your feedback as we strive to reach that goal.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-12-30 at 20:01. Reason: Now in past tense
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Old 2012-12-15, 15:24   Link #2
Haak
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Well that kinda sucks. So my Reputation board is going to keep on looking like this?:



Feels like they've had the last laugh now...

Could you at least do us favour and make it so that the neg rep comments disappear from our boards? It just doesn't help when you're seeing that every time you look at your board...
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Old 2012-12-15, 15:25   Link #3
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Well that kinda sucks. So my Reputation board is going to keep on looking like this?:
We're going to turn the system off entirely, so that section is going to disappear (effective the 24th).

(That being said, that "fag detected" comment is inappropriate, and we consider that rep abuse. You could have reported that.)
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Old 2012-12-15, 15:29   Link #4
Haak
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Oh yeah I could have couldn't I?

Somehow that just never crossed my mind...
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Old 2012-12-15, 15:34   Link #5
RWBladewing
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I must admit, when I discussed this with you a few months back I assumed you were simply being diplomatic and stating that the staff were taking it into consideration while in actuality dismissing it as being an issue. Tons of respect for proving me wrong.
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Old 2012-12-15, 15:36   Link #6
Dr. Casey
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O_O Well, this was unexpected. Might be a silly request, but maybe in these final days, you could make it so that more than just the most recent five reps show up in the User Control Panel (as you mentioned as being possible here)? It was always flattering when someone said something positive about my posts, so it would be nice to be able to Ctrl + S those years of memories.
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Old 2012-12-15, 15:39   Link #7
Triple_R
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This is an interesting decision.

I can definitely see why the moderating staff has made it.

But I won't lie - Part of me will be sad to see it go. I've largely been a beneficiary of the rep system, and I have to admit that receiving pos rep with nice little messages next to them felt rewarding at times.

On a more serious note, my main worry here is that you may, at least in the short term, see a bit more open flaming (since the anonymous neg rep outlet is now removed). I know some message boards where rudeness and flamewars are tolerated much more than they are here, and I'd hate to see Anime Suki descend to such levels. So I hope that's something that will continue to not be tolerated here on Anime Suki.


I do have one forum suggestion I'd like to make, and it's tied to the decision to get rid of rep. Would it be best if I made that suggestion on this thread, or started a new thread with it?
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Old 2012-12-15, 15:43   Link #8
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
O_O Well, this was unexpected. Might be a silly request, but maybe in these final days, you could make it so that more than just the most recent five reps show up in the User Control Panel (as you mentioned as being possible here)? It was always flattering when someone said something positive about my posts, so it would be nice to be able to Ctrl + S those years of memories.
Yeah, as I mentioned there, the problem is that there is no pagination, so if I make it too big the page will just be huge. And also, I worry a bit about reviving old grudges/sore spots if negative rep is also resurfaced. Let me think about it a bit to see if there's some other way.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I know some message boards where rudeness and flamewars are tolerated much more than they are here, and I'd hate to see Anime Suki descend to such levels. So I hope that's something that will continue to not be tolerated here on Anime Suki.
Trust me, this is not going to change. In fact, one of the contributing factors was that rep was seen as a place where this sort of rudeness and flaming was tolerated, even though it was actually still against the rules. If people use the threads as "outlets", we won't be more merciful just because rep is taken away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I do have one forum suggestion I'd like to make, and it's tied to the decision to get rid of rep. Would it be best if I made that suggestion on this thread, or started a new thread with it?
If it's directly related to future possible rep systems (etc.), then here is okay, but if it's just another suggestion precipitated by this decision, then perhaps a new thread is better. One thread one topic and all...
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Old 2012-12-15, 15:43   Link #9
synaesthetic
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So how are we supposed to detect trolls without the rep system? I won't name names, but people I see with rep disabled or red squares often end up being rather trollish.

Additionally, I'll miss the little green squares next to my name.
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Old 2012-12-15, 15:54   Link #10
ellifeedn
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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There were parts of the system I didn't understand and questions like: "How many pluses gets a green bar?" "What is the uppermost limit?" "What are the alt-texts for all the ranks?" Glad I don't have to worry about those things anymore.
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Old 2012-12-15, 15:56   Link #11
Mentar
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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I also disagree that this is a good idea. I see your point about long-time visitors having too much impact, so why don't you just divide all reputation points by 10 or more and restart? It DOES contain useful information, like synaesthetic already mentioned.
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Old 2012-12-15, 16:06   Link #12
Hiroi Sekai
Minna no ojou-sama~♥
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Well this is news to me. The decision's final and all, but aside from the few bad folks lurking about, the rep system was what separated me from being a long time lurker to an actual poster. Not in the sense that one would post for rep, but by receiving it, one would feel like they were contributing more to the community who appreciated it.

I have an inkling you may hear from a few general and Fan Creation veterans too, since they built up that rep for a long time. As for me, it's a little sad to see it go, but I'll adapt.

There is a sense that I, amongst other people will be watching something we built up for a while get wiped in one instant. That might not be as pretty, but at least it'll be on Christmas Eve where I'll probably be preoccupied.

Looking forward to seeing how it all works out.
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Old 2012-12-15, 16:08   Link #13
Keroko
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Truthfully, I believe that capping the rep power at a lower point and removing the anonymity would remove almost all the problems with the systems as it is.
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Old 2012-12-15, 16:11   Link #14
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
I also disagree that this is a good idea. I see your point about long-time visitors having too much impact, so why don't you just divide all reputation points by 10 or more and restart? It DOES contain useful information, like synaesthetic already mentioned.
As it says in the announcement, this isn't a definitive statement that we will never use such a system again. We're just saying that we're retiring the current system and will at least go for a time without a replacement. After some time passes, we can always take a fresh look at what benefits the rep system brought and consider afresh how we can keep these benefits and mitigate some of the drawbacks. The feedback here about the elements people liked about the current system can help inform that future direction.

So in other words, gone for now in this form doesn't necessarily mean gone for good in any form.
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Old 2012-12-15, 16:19   Link #15
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
I see your point about long-time visitors having too much impact
To be honest, I don't. Since the decision is final I'm not arguing against it, but as far as discussion goes... Mentar, you're a member from 2003; do you remember when we first joined the site? It took forever to get an extra box because everyone's "rep-giving power" was limited to one or two points. Having two boxes was a big deal; three was huge. Since then there's been major point inflation, with newly-joined members easily accumulating enough "rep points" to catch up to and exceed the amount of "rep points" held by older members. Consider that new members pretty much only need around 10 positive reps to gain an extra box, where we needed closer to 100 when we were new. There were also fewer members on the site to hand out rep. But now we seem to be reaching the system's maximum, with my account and many others seemingly having hit the maximum number of green squares that can be achieved. I don't know the exact numbers, but the amount of "rep points" added or subtracted through my account don't seem to be so great compared with accounts that are a bit younger. So an account that's one year old doesn't have as much point-giving potential as one that is ten years old - is that a big deal? Doesn't it encourage user longevity? And if it really is a big deal, can't the point-giving power be adjusted, instead of trashing the whole system?

synaesthetic raises a good point about the usefulness of the system. I'll miss that aspect.

My only request is that we not replace this with those systems of up-voting and down-voting individual posts.
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Old 2012-12-15, 16:26   Link #16
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
My only request is that we not replace this with those systems of up-voting and down-voting individual posts.
I do not think such a system has been proposed or seriously considered by anyone. I don't think a Forum is like a blog commenting system.
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Old 2012-12-15, 16:27   Link #17
Ledgem
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That's a relief.
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Old 2012-12-15, 16:34   Link #18
Rayrah
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Well, this sure is a bit of a surprise. It was when I got my first reputation award that I decided to continue posting. And I'll do so regardless, but I can't help but feel a little sad to see it go. But, at the very least, I suppose that means there'll be no more anonymous negs. Or complaints about them.

But at the same time, I do like that posters are being encouraged to use VMs more. There's more room for proper conversation that way.
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Old 2012-12-15, 16:35   Link #19
NoemiChan
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I think removing the "comment" is way more better than removing the entire system. Many had give their best to received them deservingly. I think you must reconsider this for this will have a big impact to the whole forum. I admit the system sucks in the beginning but honestly it made me realized that the system is a mirror of the people's perception of you.

Lastly, I suggest you make a poll first before doing this.. Have every opinion counts.. Thank you.
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Old 2012-12-15, 16:39   Link #20
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
I think removing the "comment" is way more better than removing the entire system. Many had give their best to received them deservingly. I think you must reconsider this for this will have a big impact to the whole forum. I admit the system sucks in the beginning but honestly it made me realized that the system is a mirror of the people's perception of you.

Lastly, I suggest you make a poll first before doing this.. Have every opinion counts.. Thank you.
It would be interesting to see what a poll on scrapping the rep system would result in. Given how long the rep system has been part of Anime Suki, I think it might be a good idea to put a change of this magnitude to a poll.
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