AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > Forum & Site Feedback

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-12-15, 16:45   Link #21
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
We will not make a poll, as the decision to retire the current system is final. But the potential for any future system to replace it is still very much in the open. I do think going through at least a time without a system so we can all experience first-hand the difference it makes (either positive or negative) can be a valuable learning experience.
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline  
Old 2012-12-15, 16:55   Link #22
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 26
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
I really hope this works positively...
NoemiChan is offline  
Old 2012-12-15, 16:59   Link #23
Hiroi Sekai
Minna no ojou-sama~♥
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kelowna, British Columbia
Age: 23
Send a message via Skype™ to Hiroi Sekai
Back when I ran a forum of my own, we ran a "like" system that worked pretty darn well. I'll suggest it with some details, just so you may have something to work with.

Basically, each post comes with an icon that one can click like on (like with Facebook, but proper, as I'll explain). The user who liked the post would appear by username for the poster, and for others it shows the total number of likes from their side. From there, the posters could directly link to the user's visitor pages for further conversation, leaving the clutter in the threads at a minimum. Any disagreements are just carried out in replies on threads and VMs as always, which could always be reported if irresponsible.

We didn't have this, but the number of likes someone has could be shown where the rep bar currently is, so people know who to turn to for a better understanding of the forum. People get rep for anything, but likes come from personal agreements in posts, so the people with more would more accurately be portrayed as the users who make the most populous-friendly posts (I don't exactly see people giving many for derailing and heavily derogatory posts).

That's just a suggestion, since it worked well for us back then. Then again, the forum was only a fraction of the size of AS, so I can't speak for how it'd work. Just thought I'd plant the idea since the rep system will undeniably be removed and we'll be needing some kind of crowd control.
__________________
Hiroi Sekai is offline  
Old 2012-12-15, 17:46   Link #24
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Well personally I welcome this change, I've never been a fan of reputation systems, in any forum I've been.

In the end they do a lot less good than you think they would. This isn't even the first time for me that I see a forum admin removing the reputation system.

Generally a reputation system is implemented with the idea to reward good behaviors and "punish" bad mannerism. In other words it's usually supposed to improve the quality of posting. However what it actually becomes in the end is a popularity contest.

The problem lies on the assumption that the userbase will make an appropiate use of the reputation system, but that's hardly the case in my experience. So what a high score actually reflects is how much one is popular, which isn't the same thing as how much respectful of the rules and good mannered one is.

One can easily get bad scores for saying things that are unpopular, but not necessarily wrong. And if one lets himself be affected by it, he might end up giving up speaking his own mind honestly when he knows that what he thinks is unpopular.

That being said I always had the impression that in this forum negative reputation detracted a lot less points than whan positive reputation give. So I don't think negative reputation had that much impact, but I have noticed in a few occasions people taking it way worse than they should have, and that's not something positive.

If you plan to reintroduce another system, I hope you'll keep this in consideration, but I am honestly very skeptical that you can make something completely devoid of problems. In the end the issue is not the system, but the people that use it, and they won't change.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline  
Old 2012-12-15, 17:51   Link #25
chancs
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: where magic is reality
Send a message via Skype™ to chancs
Hmmm..and there I was thinking how to raise my bar level

Quote:
Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post

the number of likes someone has could be shown where the rep bar currently is, so people know who to turn to for a better understanding of the forum. People get rep for anything, but likes come from personal agreements in posts, so the people with more would more accurately be portrayed as the users who make the most populous-friendly posts
I agree with the view shared by papermario13689. The green bar becomes a thing of attraction. The greater the reps, it will be more reasonable to say that users are more active/contributing/knowledgeable about the forum. The newcomers can then easily get in touch and interact with the forum-sempais. This might have also helped the moderators from getting shelled with the general queries apart from FAQs.

But after all being said, I never realized that this will have a negative effect with many users being reckless. The staff's decision is well received for such case.

Popularity does has its demerits
chancs is offline  
Old 2012-12-15, 18:11   Link #26
Arturia Polaris
Good OP Hunter
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Argentina
Well this came out of the left field for me...

And I only recently hit a huge boost in my rep due to my writing T.T

Oh well.

If I had to propose a new system it'd be a per post rep. Every post can be voted down or up, and it'll have a color code to indicate (blue being neutral, red being bad, green being good. The more intense the color the more it was voted)

Oh well, goodbye rep.

Arty
__________________
Arturia's Writing Den

My fanfiction works include:

Tari Tari: Past and Present, As the Gentle Breeze Blows
Little Busters: Bird's Song
Sword Art Online: Vanquishing of the Laughing Coffin

My own works include: Social Fact
Arturia Polaris is offline  
Old 2012-12-15, 18:12   Link #27
Dengar
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 30
I'm not really sad to see the system go. I both like and disliked it. I liked the fact that you could give and receive feedback on your posts. What I didn't like was the anonymity. You are completely unable to reply or ask for clarification. I felt it would've been better if either
1) It's not anonymous
2) No comments at all, just + or -.
Dengar is offline  
Old 2012-12-15, 18:18   Link #28
Reckoner
Bittersweet Distractor
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
The problem lies on the assumption that the userbase will make an appropiate use of the reputation system, but that's hardly the case in my experience. So what a high score actually reflects is how much one is popular, which isn't the same thing as how much respectful of the rules and good mannered one is.

One can easily get bad scores for saying things that are unpopular, but not necessarily wrong. And if one lets himself be affected by it, he might end up giving up speaking his own mind honestly when he knows that what he thinks is unpopular.
Eh, I can't really agree with this because I generally tend to have unpopular opinions on this forum and look at my bars. The only reason I have this many bars is because a select few posters, with more influence than the myriad of little red dots I tend to get, appreciate my alternate viewpoints and voice on the forum. Certainly people can "farm" rep in many ways, whether it be making sigs and avies, or posting in a manner that is just trying to appeal to others.... But I think there are enough examples of people with lots of green rep, when they weren't even generally the most liked on the forum, to debunk that.

I mean look at what my user cp was like recently:

Spoiler for for space:


-----


That said, I don't care much for the reputation system and in reality I think doing away with it will do the forum some much needed good. Unfortunately not everyone can be as amazing as me is that willing to express their opinion if its not aligned with the vast majority of people because the threat of negative rep actively discourages them. We can tell them all we want how meaningless such a system is in the grander scheme of a forum, but people do seem to take those little colored dots to heart.

Now I understand that people want to feel like they're being "rewarded" for their efforts in building a community around here and that their status as veterans will be revoked by this change, but frankly, I am just getting a pretty elitist vibe from some of the complaints in this thread. People want to be rewarded for posting on a forum like it is some sort of videogame? This is not the point of a forum, a forum is a place to host discussions. Discussions can happen whether you've been here since the inception of AS, or if you are a user who just registered today. You are freely able to express yourself no matter how old or new you are.

The reward of building a community is that your contribution encourages others to contribute as well. If you encourage more people come out to talk and create interesting discussions, is that not a reward itself?
Reckoner is online now  
Old 2012-12-15, 18:29   Link #29
Archon_Wing
Hater
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Being totally ebillll
Age: 30
Send a message via MSN to Archon_Wing
Aww, but I was this close to being in the high score board!

You will be missed rep system, even if you contributed nothing.

It was a fun game though a bit imbalanced in favor of the givers. The problem is that you could neg someone, watch them complain in a hilarious fashion and then report said complain post which would no doubt waste the mods' time. But in a sense people could troll another twice with the press of a button. Although this is kinda funny, it's not exactly healthy.

Personally I only used it for amusement, and never targeted anyone intentionally. But even so I found myself more likely to toss - or + towards some people, so I really would say it's hard to not have these intentions in mind. Also, it's extremely easy to farm rep and negs if you want really want to provoke such reactions. Still, certain posters do seem to have earned their rep through good posting and taking the challenge of not just writing pandering posts, and others umm, I'm just gonna stay silent.

I wouldn't really mind a "thanks" system for individual posts instead but it would also cause cliques too where people arbitrarily increase each other's epeens and any appreciation can be reserved for direct contact.

P.S. I pressed the button on most of the people on this thread before. Is that ok for me to say?
PPS: In the end this is sorta like hostile in Diablo 2. A bit amusing, but too much use for griefers.
__________________
What appears to be a moment for the helper feels like an eternity to the helpee.
Avatar and Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)
MyAnimeList || Reviews
Archon_Wing is online now  
Old 2012-12-15, 18:29   Link #30
Vicious108
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Good. I was getting tired of having arguments of mine being addressed through cowardly and anonymous negative reputation that essentially consisted in "LALALA I can't hear you!" instead of face-to-face with proper debating.
Vicious108 is offline  
Old 2012-12-15, 18:50   Link #31
KholdStare
ISML Technical Staff
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Age: 25
Send a message via AIM to KholdStare Send a message via MSN to KholdStare
Excellent change. I won't say I'll never miss it, but it's needed to let it go, because of things like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Obviously, this won't hinder everyone from expressing their opinions. But it's stuff like this that discourages new members from posting more after they get their first neg rep, or something.

I support a "thanks"/"like" system. And do away with the "you can't give rep to the same person unless you rep 10 other posts" thing. Also, this implies everyone has equal rep power, regardless of posts/join date.

@Reckoner: I remember disagreeing with you on some point in a Railgun thread or something. I actually thought we had a nice discussion going without any need for neg rep, even if we mostly disagreed. You do have different viewpoints from the rest, but it's still an opinion and you give reasons why, instead of just saying "lol this anime sux" or some crap. But of course, neg rep = disagree in AS, so in my opinion it the system was a huge flaw.
KholdStare is offline  
Old 2012-12-15, 18:54   Link #32
Archon_Wing
Hater
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Being totally ebillll
Age: 30
Send a message via MSN to Archon_Wing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
On a more serious note, my main worry here is that you may, at least in the short term, see a bit more open flaming (since the anonymous neg rep outlet is now removed). I know some message boards where rudeness and flamewars are tolerated much more than they are here, and I'd hate to see Anime Suki descend to such levels. So I hope that's something that will continue to not be tolerated here on Anime Suki.
?
I think it's still better than anonymous harassment though.

If it's in the open, there will be more restraint since they might actually care what other people think.

Besides, I haven't been flamed by anyone worthy lately so it could be a nice change of pace. (Don't worry. It won't be a flame war. It will just be me holding up the paragons of honor and truth against those scum who would dare say mean things towards me.)
__________________
What appears to be a moment for the helper feels like an eternity to the helpee.
Avatar and Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)
MyAnimeList || Reviews
Archon_Wing is online now  
Old 2012-12-15, 18:56   Link #33
Ledgem
Love Yourself
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Now I understand that people want to feel like they're being "rewarded" for their efforts in building a community around here and that their status as veterans will be revoked by this change, but frankly, I am just getting a pretty elitist vibe from some of the complaints in this thread. People want to be rewarded for posting on a forum like it is some sort of videogame? This is not the point of a forum, a forum is a place to host discussions. Discussions can happen whether you've been here since the inception of AS, or if you are a user who just registered today. You are freely able to express yourself no matter how old or new you are.
Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I think you're misinterpreting the vibe. It isn't about higher-repped or older members having a greater say than newer members, it's about being recognized and respected. This isn't something that's unique here, either. People instinctively dislike new recruits who don't respect more senior members in the workforce, and you can find a "pecking order" based on length of membership and contributions in a number of clubs, as well.

It may sound silly that people want to have such a structure for recognition on a discussion forum, but doesn't it make sense? The forum has proven itself to be a community, rather than a bus terminal where people are only passing through. We have people who have been coming here for years, which is pretty dedicated. (If I may toot my own horn, I'm coming upon year 10, myself. Do I get cake when the day comes? (brightman already spoiled it for me, actually - no cake, no fanfare when your account hits its 10th year. Oh well.))

In the grand scheme of things it probably won't make much of a difference. People will lose a way to judge members by and may feel a bit disoriented for a bit, but they'll come up with other ways or just adapt to not having that information. I just wanted to convey what I perceive the upset is over. Specifically, I wanted to say that it isn't elitism.
__________________
Ledgem is offline  
Old 2012-12-15, 18:56   Link #34
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
The problem that I have with a "thanks" system (that a few have mentioned) is that it seems to me to just encourage cliques and taking sides. Like let's say you're having a debate about a controversial anime (would totally never happen, I know...). I can just see someone making a "pro" post and having the usual crowd of "pro" supporters like/"thank" their post, and then someone else make an "anti" post and having the usual crowd of "anti" supporters like/"thank" their post. It's like an odd way of giving weight to someone else's argument, and it doesn't really have any correlation whatsoever to whether someone actually did something praiseworthy. It just means, "I agree with you and I want to take a stand".

In the end, I think you'd just be trading one problem for another.
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline  
Old 2012-12-15, 19:00   Link #35
Archon_Wing
Hater
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Being totally ebillll
Age: 30
Send a message via MSN to Archon_Wing
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
The problem that I have with a "thanks" system (that a few have mentioned) is that it seems to me to just encourage cliques and taking sides. Like let's say you're having a debate about a controversial anime (would totally never happen, I know...). I can just see someone making a "pro" post and having the usual crowd of "pro" supporters link/"thank" their post, and then someone else make an "anti" post and having the usual crowd of "anti" supporters like/"thank" their post. It's like an odd way of giving weight to someone else's argument, and it doesn't really have any correlation whatsoever to whether someone actually did something praiseworthy. It just means, "I agree with you and I want to take a stand".

In the end, I think you'd just be trading one problem for another.
Hmm, I suppose that could work to some degree. It'll be like those paid arguments for and against in voter booklets. But however, politics is a bad analogy due to how polarized it is. :/
__________________
What appears to be a moment for the helper feels like an eternity to the helpee.
Avatar and Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)
MyAnimeList || Reviews
Archon_Wing is online now  
Old 2012-12-15, 19:00   Link #36
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
I was informed I should snap a pic of the members list ... I had no idea of my position.

I won't miss it. It had gotten to the point where people weren't bothering to give rep anyway and, of course, I "used my powers for evil" once but frankly, I mostly gave pos rep, saving the neg bomb for individuals that needed a lot more than just a trout slap.

It WOULD be nice to have some way to paintball trolls though. As Syn says, there was *some* value. It'll be interesting to see what alternative systems come up for discussion.
Vexx is offline  
Old 2012-12-15, 19:02   Link #37
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
But however, politics is a bad analogy due to how polarized it is. :/
Highly-polarized situations are exactly when this sort of system would work the least. It might work in a technical support or other part of the forum where people are trying to help each other out. But I think it won't work in anime discussion.
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline  
Old 2012-12-15, 19:04   Link #38
Reckoner
Bittersweet Distractor
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I think you're misinterpreting the vibe. It isn't about higher-repped or older members having a greater say than newer members, it's about being recognized and respected. This isn't something that's unique here, either. People instinctively dislike new recruits who don't respect more senior members in the workforce, and you can find a "pecking order" based on length of membership and contributions in a number of clubs, as well.

It may sound silly that people want to have such a structure for recognition on a discussion forum, but doesn't it make sense? The forum has proven itself to be a community, rather than a bus terminal where people are only passing through. We have people who have been coming here for years, which is pretty dedicated. (If I may toot my own horn, I'm coming upon year 10, myself. Do I get cake when the day comes? (brightman already spoiled it for me, actually - no cake, no fanfare when your account hits its 10th year. Oh well.))
I do understand where the sentiment is coming from, but this is exactly what I think is coming off as slightly elitist. This is not a work place. Naturally in a work place you should respect the more experienced because they're obviously going to know more than you generally and can play active roles in guiding your development/experience.

But this is just a forum conversation. Having lots of experience in forum conversations isn't really that useful. A new poster can be just as insightful and contribute just as much as an old timer. If we were trying to offer some sort of service or knowledge to these people like in a business/academic setting, then looking towards our seniors would make more sense, but I do not think this applicable here. Why should we elevate people's status for simply having been around longer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
It WOULD be nice to have some way to paintball trolls though. As Syn says, there was *some* value. It'll be interesting to see what alternative systems come up for discussion.
In the end this is the only real notable contribution of the rep system IMO.
Reckoner is online now  
Old 2012-12-15, 19:11   Link #39
Archon_Wing
Hater
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Being totally ebillll
Age: 30
Send a message via MSN to Archon_Wing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post

It WOULD be nice to have some way to paintball trolls though. As Syn says, there was *some* value. It'll be interesting to see what alternative systems come up for discussion.
Actually, I thought the system was a bad way of doing it, since trolls just want attention.

If you're talking about labeling them, I guess it works a bit, but a troll post is sorta like porn-- you know it when you see it (and it's often bad) and you really don't need a label. Sometimes a bad poster will make good points too.
__________________
What appears to be a moment for the helper feels like an eternity to the helpee.
Avatar and Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)
MyAnimeList || Reviews
Archon_Wing is online now  
Old 2012-12-15, 19:18   Link #40
Ledgem
Love Yourself
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I was informed I should snap a pic of the members list ... I had no idea of my position.
The winner speaks!
Images
Screenshot of ranked reputation list
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
(That's as much as I could fit on my screen for a snapshot; sorry to those who weren't included.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I do understand where the sentiment is coming from, but this is exactly what I think is coming off as slightly elitist. This is not a work place. Naturally in a work place you should respect the more experienced because they're obviously going to know more than you generally and can play active roles in guiding your development/experience.
It's not always the case that a more senior member knows more than a new recruit. But look at it in the context of human culture: why do we universally respect our elders? It's not necessarily because they know more or are more skilled; if nothing else, they've certainly experienced more. It's a similar thing here - it's a discussion forum, but it's a community. Some people have grown close here, some have met offline; it's not so impersonal and purely discussion-driven as other forums I've participated in. The system was a way for people to feel appreciated back by the community, and to have something to show for themselves and to others. It sounds a bit silly, in a way. And I suppose you could claim it's elitism that pleasure was derived from these members having something that others did not (number of green blocks), but was it a bad thing? Have you ever witnessed anyone putting down a newer member based on their join date or lack of reputation? I wouldn't be surprised to hear if it's happened two or three times, but I'd be surprised to hear that it was widespread or occurring any more frequently than that.
__________________
Ledgem is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
forum, reputation

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:08.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.