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Old 2012-12-15, 19:22   Link #41
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
So how are we supposed to detect trolls without the rep system? I won't name names, but people I see with rep disabled or red squares often end up being rather trollish.
Simple: have your own opinion of the said individual after few interactions.

Honestly, I think judging someone on mere bogus value that is now broken due to absolutely offscale system is rather poor, especially if one has the bad luck of rubbing some high rep people the wrong way. OTOH, a "troll" can also rep grind.

Really, it is pretty much the same than any other social network: there isn't a clear indication if the said individual would be to your liking in term of speech and whatnot. What's best is actually the idea you make of them by yourself, and I really think the rep system being terminated will facilitate communication.

On a mod perspective, more apparent flamewar isn't exactly certain: unlike neg rep, foul behaviours are more prone to be reported if out of the open, which means easier way for us to handle.
Like rf said, the reputation system was often used as a "loophole" to bypass our rules against comments and retorts that we never allowed in the first place. So removing the system would actually be a deterrent as it cut some people option to go with personal attacks and whatever inconsiderate comments in "complete" impunity (assuming it wasn't reported to us).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
It's not always the case that a more senior member knows more than a new recruit. But look at it in the context of human culture: why do we universally respect our elders? It's not necessarily because they know more or are more skilled; if nothing else, they've certainly experienced more. It's a similar thing here - it's a discussion forum, but it's a community. Some people have grown close here, some have met offline; it's not so impersonal and purely discussion-driven as other forums I've participated in. The system was a way for people to feel appreciated back by the community, and to have something to show for themselves and to others. It sounds a bit silly, in a way. And I suppose you could claim it's elitism that pleasure was derived from these members having something that others did not (number of green blocks), but was it a bad thing? Have you ever witnessed anyone putting down a newer member based on their join date or lack of reputation? I wouldn't be surprised to hear if it's happened two or three times, but I'd be surprised to hear that it was widespread or occurring any more frequently than that.
Your point would actually make sense years ago, but not anymore.
It has come to our attention that "rep grind" is actually more often than we might have expected, be it unconsciously (due to some people being buddies and prone to agree together) and some doing on purpose to actually have their standing (or, inversely, some people abusing the system to belittle some others).
Furthermore, the way how it is earned now surely don't make some high rep ranked people to be "elder", especially when discussions alone aren't the only way to receive reputation.
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Old 2012-12-15, 19:29   Link #42
ellifeedn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
The winner speaks!
Images
Screenshot of ranked reputation list
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
(That's as much as I could fit on my screen for a snapshot; sorry to those who weren't included.)
But Ledgem, you're the oldest one with 11 bar rank. Surely that must count for something .
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Old 2012-12-15, 19:32   Link #43
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
It's not always the case that a more senior member knows more than a new recruit. But look at it in the context of human culture: why do we universally respect our elders? It's not necessarily because they know more or are more skilled; if nothing else, they've certainly experienced more. It's a similar thing here - it's a discussion forum, but it's a community. Some people have grown close here, some have met offline; it's not so impersonal and purely discussion-driven as other forums I've participated in. The system was a way for people to feel appreciated back by the community, and to have something to show for themselves and to others. It sounds a bit silly, in a way. And I suppose you could claim it's elitism that pleasure was derived from these members having something that others did not (number of green blocks), but was it a bad thing? Have you ever witnessed anyone putting down a newer member based on their join date or lack of reputation? I wouldn't be surprised to hear if it's happened two or three times, but I'd be surprised to hear that it was widespread or occurring any more frequently than that.
It wouldn't be something so blatant. It could be as seemingly harmless as being convinced by a bunch of people with large rep bars into certain opinions over the people without any notable "status" to their name simply because they been around longer. But that's also getting away from my point.

I just do not think there's any inherent value in giving distinction to people in a forum conversation like this. I think the worth of a person's character will be displayed in the posts they construct, not in the amount of points on their name. I just do not particularly think that quality of posts has a significant correlation with the amount of contribution you have to a forum (These are just discussions and as humans we discuss things everyday whether it be in RL or online). And really, you said it yourself, it's something for you to show off to other people. What are we showing off? What does something like the rep system even evaluate? How many people agree with you to enough to give you bars? That you're sig/avvie maker?

Being appreciated is better facilitated by simply getting involved in forum conversations. I am never that gratified when someone gives me a green rep, but I do like it when people come out in the forum or even just in PM/VM to express agreement or support of what I am saying.
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Old 2012-12-15, 19:34   Link #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
The problem that I have with a "thanks" system (that a few have mentioned) is that it seems to me to just encourage cliques and taking sides. Like let's say you're having a debate about a controversial anime (would totally never happen, I know...). I can just see someone making a "pro" post and having the usual crowd of "pro" supporters like/"thank" their post, and then someone else make an "anti" post and having the usual crowd of "anti" supporters like/"thank" their post. It's like an odd way of giving weight to someone else's argument, and it doesn't really have any correlation whatsoever to whether someone actually did something praiseworthy. It just means, "I agree with you and I want to take a stand".

In the end, I think you'd just be trading one problem for another.
Good point. I think I meant something else, such as the likes/thanks would go directly to their account and not displayed on the post. In the sense, it's an unweighted positive rep system that doesn't reflect on the post liked. Or maybe you can make the text show up when you hover oven an area, who knows. That way it wouldn't distract someone browsing through the thread saying "ding ding ding this post has 23904812342 likes!!!".
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Old 2012-12-15, 19:43   Link #45
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Eh, I can't really agree with this because I generally tend to have unpopular opinions on this forum and look at my bars. The only reason I have this many bars is because a select few posters, with more influence than the myriad of little red dots I tend to get, appreciate my alternate viewpoints and voice on the forum. Certainly people can "farm" rep in many ways, whether it be making sigs and avies, or posting in a manner that is just trying to appeal to others....
Well that's exactly what is wrong. Why do you need to "farm" good rep anyway? So that you won't have a red icon for posting your unpopular ideas? I don't think this is what you're supposed to do in a forum.

I don't know precisely how you get that many bars, but clearly if you have them you are popular among other groups of people or more influential people. But that doesn't mean that just because you happen to have your supporters, anyone else definitely have them.

That being said if someone is absolutely unlikable and has a huge reputation, that's yet another sympton that something isn't right, probably some circlejerking is involved. Sure there are people that can defeat the system, but again that doesn't mean it's the norm.
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Old 2012-12-15, 19:43   Link #46
relentlessflame
 
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Just wanted to make one small comment:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
why do we universally respect our elders?
Somehow this made me laugh a lot. I always get the impression that a lot of people would rather tell their elders that they're full of crap and doing it wrong.

I find the "recognizing veteran posters" argument interesting... but I don't really have a firm opinion about it yet beyond that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
Good point. I think I meant something else, such as the likes/thanks would go directly to their account and not displayed on the post. In the sense, it's an unweighted positive rep system that doesn't reflect on the post liked. Or maybe you can make the text show up when you hover oven an area, who knows. That way it wouldn't distract someone browsing through the thread saying "ding ding ding this post has 23904812342 likes!!!".
Hmm... interesting. Have it be something that only appears to the user for their own posts, perhaps? It's interesting, but I still wonder if it becomes a bit of a hidden "know who your allies are" ploy.

Maybe I've just become a bit jaded by some of the "factionism" I've seen over the years. Honestly, the way some people used rep (to basically circle jerk their friends who stood for repetitive cyclic talking points) left me pretty disheartened. But I guess that's not the fault of the system, it's just part of human nature.
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Old 2012-12-15, 19:47   Link #47
Vexx
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Frankly, what I do these days when someone posts something that raises my eyebrows is I check their post history (easy enough to do). Looking at their last 20 posts or so will often give a very good indication of what kind of person is posting.

I'm also leery of whom I confirm as "friend" though I count a few people in the friend list with whom I fervently disagree with. Maybe "someone I respect what they say" is a better label for that but that's what I use it for.
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Old 2012-12-15, 20:10   Link #48
Coldlight
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Hmm, seems I'll no longer be able to reach my long-term goal of "glorious beacon of light"

Since the decision is final, I'm not going to say anything about reconsidering/agreeing etc. As a part of the overall forum experience, it shall be missed - though it's not really that big of a deal for me.

I'll just suggest that if ever this kind of system is revived someday, it might be good to also know which user gave you the rep to help negate the stated problem of "anonymous coward reps" and also so that the person giving the rep no longer needs to sign it with his/her username. While it reveals who the pos/neg repper is, back and forth rep wars will also be prevented/hindered if some sort of consecutive rep restriction remains like the one with the current system.

Though I've never experienced it before, I've also come to realize that the current anonymous rep system could also be abused if the neg repper signed it with somebody else's username. Inciting other forum members against each other, now that could be a problem.
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Old 2012-12-15, 20:13   Link #49
TheFluff
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finally the revolution has come, death to the capitalist system
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read

Last edited by Daniel E.; 2012-12-15 at 23:02.
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Old 2012-12-15, 20:18   Link #50
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I always get the impression that a lot of people would rather tell their elders that they're full of crap and doing it wrong.

I find the "recognizing veteran posters" argument interesting... but I don't really have a firm opinion about it yet beyond that.
Get off my lawn.

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Old 2012-12-15, 20:20   Link #51
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldlight View Post
Though I've never experienced it before, I've also come to realize that the current anonymous rep system could also be abused if the neg repper signed it with somebody else's username. Inciting other forum members against each other, now that could be a problem.
I won't get into details, but yes, we actually had this happen (and, upon seeing someone do it, it made me surprised that more people hadn't thought of it -- pure "griefing" at its finest). Suffice it to say, it wasn't okay.
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Old 2012-12-15, 20:20   Link #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Get off my lawn.

Not until you get off my shed!
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Old 2012-12-15, 20:20   Link #53
TheFluff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I won't get into details, but yes, we actually had this happen (and, upon seeing someone do it, it made me realize that more people hadn't thought of it -- pure "griefing" at its finest). Suffice it to say, it wasn't okay.
aaaaaaa why did I never think of this
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2012-12-15, 20:22   Link #54
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
aaaaaaa why did I never think of this
You have trolling standards?
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Old 2012-12-15, 20:23   Link #55
Dr. Casey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
aaaaaaa why did I never think of this
"ur a freaking noob. go 2 hell. ~ Signed, relentlessflame"

It would've indeed been pretty fun.
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Old 2012-12-15, 20:26   Link #56
Keroko
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And now that it's out for all to read with only a week left, this last week is going to be complete anarchy with the rep system.
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Old 2012-12-15, 20:27   Link #57
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Frankly, what I do these days when someone posts something that raises my eyebrows is I check their post history (easy enough to do). Looking at their last 20 posts or so will often give a very good indication of what kind of person is posting.
I don't go as far as checking someone post history but, I always based my opinion of someone's posts, never of his reputations. After all reputation isn't always given for what we say. I am pretty sure than more than half the reputation I received since I am here where from less than 10 posts, all signatures-making related, thoses don't relate to what I say but are counted like there's no difference.
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Old 2012-12-15, 20:27   Link #58
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
"ur a freaking noob. go 2 hell. ~ Signed, relentlessflame"

It would've indeed been pretty fun.
See that's too obvious. (Though I did have people accuse me of sending them anonymous neg rep. I always signed my rep, though barely ever sent any neg rep.) If you invoke a mod, you're sure to get caught. You have to do it in such a way that it spreads discontent without raising too much suspicion. If it's people who know each other too well, they'll just ask each other about it, and the ruse will be up. So it's got to be someone who the person will know, but not be friends with. I've got to say the person who did this was pretty good on this front -- which of course makes it more evil. As Solace said, even most trolls have standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
And now that it's out for all to read with only a week left, this last week is going to be complete anarchy with the rep system.
This is exactly why we deactivated it first before announcing...
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Old 2012-12-15, 20:58   Link #59
Kyero Fox
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Why not just make it that it shows the person who repped you AND de-repped. That way cowards will think twice before trolling or flaming.

If you guys can do that, why not?
If not? Good riddance troll rep.
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Old 2012-12-15, 20:58   Link #60
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
finally the revolution has come, death to the capitalist system

this thread sure is full of people hurfing a durf about their hard earned circlejerk points though
god forbid you'd actually need to READ someone's post instead of judging it by the epenis meter
Looks like someone's upset with the number of green blocks under his avatar
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