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View Poll Results: Sword Art Online - Episode 24 Rating
10 out of 10 : Near Perfect... 52 33.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 31 19.87%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 21 13.46%
7 out of 10 : Good... 16 10.26%
6 out of 10 : Average... 9 5.77%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 4 2.56%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 4 2.56%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 2 1.28%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 1 0.64%
1 out of 10 : Torturous... 16 10.26%
Voters: 156. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-12-15, 22:57   Link #121
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
I'm normally a forgiving person, but... no, Kirito, you shouldn't act buddy-buddy or speak with reverence about someone who indirectly murdered two thousand innocent people. Kayaba's an interesting person, no doubt, but Sword Art Online's death trap nature cemented his status as a piece of crap, and he shouldn't be treated as anything but.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
....on the other hand, had it not been for Kayaba, Kazuto would not have played SAO, met Asuna, (and the others) or grown as a person. Maybe that's why he said 'Thank you' to him.
Honestly, both of these views are sort of why I like the "Kayaba as a metaphor for God" analogy (at least if you think of it in the Judeo-Christian sense, and perhaps also like the gods in some ancient Greek comedies/tragedies). If there really were a God that created the universe and you were able to meet him, would you blame him for all the negative things that he "allowed to happen" (and caused either directly or at least by proxy) in the world, or would you thank him for indirectly giving you the life you had? Of course, Kayaba is a person in this story who only played the role of god in his game (and indirectly through the technology he created), but it's still an interesting angle to me. It's also interesting given the way The Seed was placed into Kazuto's hands -- will he want to destroy every remnant of that reality steeped in tragedy, or try to create something new and better (based on the gift he was given of meeting Asuna)? (Well I think we know the answer already.) From the perspective of Kazuto and Asuna, I think the relationship they have with him is "complicated". I'm sure no one condones what he did in light of all those who died based on that decision. But they nevertheless did live in his world and it changed their lives indefinitely. They may do a lot if it could save those who were lost, but would they really want the time back for themselves?

Of course, ALO is a different story, and a very vivid contrast.
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Old 2012-12-15, 23:03   Link #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esebian View Post
Well, for most people the whole Kayaba scene is the greatest DME in anime history, at least it seems like that to me, which automatically lowers their opinion quite drastically.
Ano.....

I used this page but couldn't find a DME definition that makes sense...

http://www.acronymfinder.com/DME.html

DME is?

If they mean Deus-ex-Machina, I don't really agree. Kirito won SAO so why wouldn't Kayaba be watching him carry on in what's basically a stolen copy of SAO?
I thought Kirito using "Heathcliff"'s admin powers made sense and was brilliant because I didn't expect it but it was so simple at the same time.

@relentlessflame:

Oh, that is very insightful. Quite an interesting take on him.
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Old 2012-12-15, 23:15   Link #123
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I did feel odd about any positive feeling being directed towards Kayaba. The guy did kill about 4,000 people. That's a pretty serious mass-murderer right there. I'd be tempted to throw that seed right into his damn virtual echo face. I probably wouldn't since it wasn't the game world itself that was evil. As we've seen with Kayaba and Sugou it's the people in charge of such a world that are the bad guys.

I mean sure, thanks for helping Kirito out of that mess, but that's it. If he asked for repayment for what he did I'd say "considering the hell you put people through this was the least you could do." Certainly can look at Kayaba in a few ways. The God metaphor is interesting. But in the end Kayaba isn't a god. He's a kidnapper, hostage taker, and murderer. Killed thousands so he could create and live through his fantasy. Wasn't like he put himself at risk until the very end. Until that point he was safely going through boss battles never in any real jeopardy of losing his life.

I consider the Seed like any piece of technology. By itself it isn't something that is evil. It's how it was used in SAO and ALO that was the problem. I'd be tempted to screw Kayaba over and destroy it so others couldn't abuse it, but in the end it's too late. These worlds have been made and will continue to be made even if the loss of Kayaba delays them. All one can do is take some solace in the fact that Kayaba died for his crimes.
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Old 2012-12-15, 23:32   Link #124
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I wouldn't call the episode a masterpiece for sure.
I felt sort of awkward watching while I was glad for the nice conclusion.

All in all it wasn't that good nor bad.

I personally didn't like the ALO arc even as novel reader.

Though I have to disagree with ending the season back in the SAO arc since if they were to do a season 2, we still have to deal with the ALO arc in a new season. They wouldn't just skip ALO since the anime's purpose was to follow and please novel readers.
May as well follow the story line and finish it here so that next season we can get into much more interesting arcs
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Old 2012-12-15, 23:45   Link #125
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Originally Posted by Rovert10 View Post
Though I have to disagree with ending the season back in the SAO arc since if they were to do a season 2, we still have to deal with the ALO arc in a new season. They wouldn't just skip ALO since the anime's purpose was to follow and please novel readers.
Well, I think there are two points of view here:

First would be that the entire story should have itself just ended with SAO, but this is a bit of a premature judgement perhaps just based on this particular arc that some people dislike. But people who liked the first arc because of the sense of tension the death game scenario caused haven't necessarily been able to follow into this second arc without that sense of tension. So these viewers can't really imagine if any future non-death-game scenario could recapture that same sense of tension (and at least this particular arc did not for them).

(Not all like the premise that an anime adaptation should serve primarily the novel readers, I should point out. Some may argue that an anime should strive to create a good story first, and should aim to be better than the source material if possible. There is obviously lots of debate on this philosophy. Personally, as a non-novel reader, I have not felt like I was really missing out when watching this anime; I do think it stands alone reasonably well, though obviously no adaptation is ever without its drawbacks.)

Second would be that the contrast between the first arc and the second arc is made more pronounced because they follow each other directly. If more time had passed, people could approach the second arc with a more fresh viewpoint. In the end it probably would have been decried by those same people as a "horrible sequel"... but that's one perspective, anyway.

In the end, I think the reason these two arcs are linked makes a lot of sense to me, as they're both really dealing with SAO at a fundamental level. A key element of the ALO is righting the leftover wrongs affected by SAO, including both the relationship with Suguha, and also the situation with Asuna. The two arcs are pretty intricately tied to each other, and closure of this arc is really final closure to the SAO arc as well.

Anyway, it's a bit hard to make a final conclusion until the last episode airs, but that's basically how I see it so far.
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Old 2012-12-15, 23:50   Link #126
ranchan13
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There was good
There was bad
There was ugly.

The Good, Kirito won, Asuna was freed.
The Bad, Kayaba showing up out of nowhere. GM hax mode.
The Ugly... Serious Sugou???


Anyways, I get the feeling that seed is the base code for Accel World.
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Old 2012-12-15, 23:52   Link #127
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...certainly enjoyed seeing Sugou getting sliced to pieces then implaed in the head...
...the slow...painful and merciless death is the best vengence...laughing demonically would be icing on the cake...

...although this "boss fight" wasnt really a fight at all...and how Kirito got GM powers felt too easy...to be honest there is really no other way to go about this since Sugou was basically a god and the only way to fight a god was to become The God...

...if not the best approach would probably be like somehow make ALO arc actually the first arc instead which leads to Kayaba being the mastermind behind everything then kidnapping everyone into the SAO arc as the second arc...

...but my guess would be it wouldnt be as interesting to capture the readers...hence it wouldnt be as popular? ...but im sure i would have enjoyed it more that way...just my opinion though...
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Old 2012-12-15, 23:57   Link #128
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I am curious on Japanese SAO fans opinions on SAO. Is it as radical as here? Or is it more calmer?
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Old 2012-12-16, 00:11   Link #129
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Originally Posted by creaothceann View Post
9/10 for Sugu's ass.
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Old 2012-12-16, 00:37   Link #130
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I`m a bit disappointed at the design of Excalibur, the legendary sword...
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Old 2012-12-16, 00:57   Link #131
Sinon
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I`m a bit disappointed at the design of Excalibur, the legendary sword...
ohh i thought i was the only one
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Old 2012-12-16, 01:03   Link #132
blitz1/2
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I guess the fan response to the near NTR was expected.
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Old 2012-12-16, 01:05   Link #133
Hiroi Sekai
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That moment when Kirito turned to the dark side, I was having a legit manly moment of yelling and cheering at the screen. That piece of shit seriously needed to have his ass kicked by that point, though I'll give him credit for thinking ahead.
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Old 2012-12-16, 01:17   Link #134
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Meh, I'm not even mad it was a pretty enjoyable episode for me...I just can't figure out where all the rage hate is coming from.
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Old 2012-12-16, 01:18   Link #135
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Now that the second story arc has ended, it's a good time to reflect on the evolution of this anime. The first ep when we discovered that people were stuck in a game was a great 'oh shit' moment. The anime looked great back then, full of potential. Then for me the story went downhill with the introduction of all the mushy romantic crap between Asuna and Kirito (cabin near the lake), which last far too many episodes. Then further downhill with the introduction of Yui, with the whole mommy and daddy stuff. And then the anime degenerated in the land of generic knight saves the princess held hostage by grotesque villains with shitty character development. Boy, seems like shinsekai yori is the only airing anime worth watching now.
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Old 2012-12-16, 01:18   Link #136
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ohh i thought i was the only one
I was expecting Saber's Excalibur. Oh well, can't have everything the way we want
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Old 2012-12-16, 01:20   Link #137
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As expected, the battle of GM is a disappointment as there is no way a player can beat GM unless DEM kicks in.

Is Accel World have better fighting scene than SAO afterall?
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Old 2012-12-16, 01:20   Link #138
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I'm going to avoid commenting on the episode itself for now, and by extension take part in the various debates currently going on, for I find the strong arguments (on both sides) are being buried quickly or avoided in favour of mass rage and/or tunnel vision.


However, I did want to comment on one post in particular:

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Honestly, both of these views are sort of why I like the "Kayaba as a metaphor for God" analogy (at least if you think of it in the Judeo-Christian sense, and perhaps also like the gods in some ancient Greek comedies/tragedies). If there really were a God that created the universe and you were able to meet him, would you blame him for all the negative things that he "allowed to happen" (and caused either directly or at least by proxy) in the world, or would you thank him for indirectly giving you the life you had? Of course, Kayaba is a person in this story who only played the role of god in his game (and indirectly through the technology he created), but it's still an interesting angle to me. It's also interesting given the way The Seed was placed into Kazuto's hands -- will he want to destroy every remnant of that reality steeped in tragedy, or try to create something new and better (based on the gift he was given of meeting Asuna)? (Well I think we know the answer already.) From the perspective of Kazuto and Asuna, I think the relationship they have with him is "complicated". I'm sure no one condones what he did in light of all those who died based on that decision. But they nevertheless did live in his world and it changed their lives indefinitely. They may do a lot if it could save those who were lost, but would they really want the time back for themselves?

Of course, ALO is a different story, and a very vivid contrast.
SAO aside, I found this to be one of the greatest insights I've ever read on a forum (not to mention one brought up by another). Kudos, relentless.

Of course, my stance on Kayaba with that viewpoint in mind is this. If I've been tossed into a VR world, then I'm not aware of it. Whereas everyone from SAO was aware that they were being forced to live in his world, and it's that simple knowledge that would prevent me from ever being able to thank him sincerely, regardless of the fortunes I'd gained. I won't lie, and say that if given the choice I'd be able to make the decision without severe emotional strain; but if an omnipotent being told me that I HAD to choose between the only chance to meet the love of my life (and to make it more dramatic, let's say I'd never be able to love/be loved ever again) at the cost of 2000 peoples' lives, there's no way I'd be able to justify that much death. Though I'd be interested to see the results of a poll like that.

The seed of course, is a different matter entirely. It's a tool, nothing more, nothing less. Given Kayaba's brilliance, it's most likely an extremely powerful tool. Why destroy it without even trying to understand its potential? Destroying it out of resentment isn't going to bring back the lives of those that were lost, and looking at things with a bit of optimism it may benefit mankind one day.
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Old 2012-12-16, 01:48   Link #139
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It was a good episode in terms of adapting this part of the LN....... But yeah, I didn't really like this bit at all. Well at least we got that out of the way. Now onto the ending.
@noobita
In terms of the LN? IMO, no
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Old 2012-12-16, 01:56   Link #140
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somnus View Post
Of course, my stance on Kayaba with that viewpoint in mind is this. If I've been tossed into a VR world, then I'm not aware of it. Whereas everyone from SAO was aware that they were being forced to live in his world, and it's that simple knowledge that would prevent me from ever being able to thank him sincerely, regardless of the fortunes I'd gained.
Yes, indeed -- this is the one unfair thing: the knowledge of what you've lost and had taken away from you. You only truly feel imprisoned when you know what it's like to be free. Kayaba having deprived them of their freedom to force them (and everyone) into that game was an inescapable wrong from pretty much any moral standpoint. So indeed, to genuinely thank him for it all is probably not reasonable. But perhaps to find something to thank him for in spite of all that can no longer be changed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somnus View Post
I won't lie, and say that if given the choice I'd be able to make the decision without severe emotional strain; but if an omnipotent being told me that I HAD to choose between the only chance to meet the love of my life (and to make it more dramatic, let's say I'd never be able to love/be loved ever again) at the cost of 2000 peoples' lives, there's no way I'd be able to justify that much death. Though I'd be interested to see the results of a poll like that.
Yeah, being given that sort of choice is really not fair. But, if you look back in retrospect not having had that choice, despite all the negative things that happened, you may still be able to -- somehow -- appreciate the one good that resulted from the whole thing despite all the bad. You could even say that the good things that resulted stand out so much more in contrast (or as Asuna put it, they became her reason for living in the midst of that darkness). I suppose that's the very essence of hope, and that's probably what's going to fuel his decision about The Seed (I'm guessing). In the midst of great tragedy and loss, something beautiful can still result in the lives of those who survive. Life (in all its forms) is still a beautiful thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somnus View Post
The seed of course, is a different matter entirely. It's a tool, nothing more, nothing less. Given Kayaba's brilliance, it's most likely an extremely powerful tool. Why destroy it without even trying to understand its potential? Destroying it out of resentment isn't going to bring back the lives of those that were lost, and looking at things with a bit of optimism it may benefit mankind one day.
In a sense, you could say that Kazuto now has a small opportunity to play "God" himself. He has seen two rather horrifying examples: first the sociopath, and second the psychopath. So it's only his belief that there can still be good in this world -- exemplified by his love for Asuna and Yui (and to a certain extent for Suguha and the rest of those who stood along side him) -- that would cause him to believe that something beautiful can grow from that seed. It may be that "absolute power corrupts absolutely", but there may be another way. It'll be interesting to see what flowers bloom as a result.
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