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Old 2012-12-16, 02:16   Link #21
NorthernFallout
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Join Date: May 2008
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The Fluff and those following summarized my thoughts on it. Let it remain on the profile, no need to let it publicly show. I've seen first-hand what it can lead to and posters should be judged based on their posts, not post counts.
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Old 2012-12-16, 02:16   Link #22
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Why not make neg rep unavailable? I mean, you could only give + rep and not - rep as an option....
If you want to discuss the rep decision, the other thread is probably the better place for it. This thread is more about the proposal of displaying post count.
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Old 2012-12-16, 05:14   Link #23
synaesthetic
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I like the fact that post count isn't displayed. I wish it wasn't displayed in my profile, either. Every time I look and see how high it's gotten I feel bad about wasting so much time bumming around a message board.

TheFluff has a good point. The only thing I'm missing is the rep system's "instant troll detection" functionality. People with red squares or disabled rep always raised a red flag with me--not that everyone with disabled rep is a troll, but a lot of folks disabled rep because all they received was negative rep for their trolling or highly inflammatory posts.
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Old 2012-12-16, 09:31   Link #24
Westlo
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Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
TheFluff has a good point. The only thing I'm missing is the rep system's "instant troll detection" functionality. People with red squares or disabled rep always raised a red flag with me--not that everyone with disabled rep is a troll, but a lot of folks disabled rep because all they received was negative rep for their trolling or highly inflammatory posts.
I like how you say TheFluff has a good point (which is judge the post(er) by its actual content) and than go onto whine about the lack of "instant troll detector". There's plenty of good posters with rep disabled, likewise there's a lot of trolls with high rep due to their cliques. The only good thing about the rep system was morons who thought they can insult people anonymously through it, as some people found out, that's not the case.
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Old 2012-12-16, 10:15   Link #25
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Can I present an opposite view? I think a really large post count is...embarrassing. I'd automatically calculate the average of how much I posted per day since the join date and then I got really disappointed at myself and stopped posting because anything above a 2-to-1 rate seemed so, so wasteful and anything above 10-to-1 felt absolutely awful. So, yeah...
Average posts per day, as at Dec 16, 2012 (Sun): 1.62

Member since April 3, 2006. Total posts, including this one, 3,970.

I take some pride in getting where I got in terms "reputation" with that average post count.

On a more serious note, no, please don't make post counts any more "public" than they need to be. As TheFluff said, we really don't need another number to judge the "quality" of membership. Let's return the focus to where it always should have been, the content of one's post in any given discussion.
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Old 2012-12-16, 16:36   Link #26
CJ_Walker
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
I like how you say TheFluff has a good point (which is judge the post(er) by its actual content) and than go onto whine about the lack of "instant troll detector".
there is an instant troll detector. ..a few of them actually. . .first is the report button, second is the ignore function, and third is brain and eyeballs most humans on these forums have and make use of



Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
I've always appreciated the fact that this was not displayed.
and

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
why are people so fixated on judging other posters based on how popular they are or how much they participate in ~the community~

How about you treat other posters as human beings with lives beyond this forum and realize that they have many different opinions, some of which you may agree with and others that you may not agree with? If I was actually interested in debating the merits of Japanese popular culture I'm pretty damn sure I'd want other people to value my opinions because they thought they had merit or because they were well formulated, not because I was a popular member of this particular internet circlejerk.

Seriously, guys. What the heck are you thinking?

yeah it solves a lot of issues associated with that. . .personally I also think that the join date should be removed too, just put in the persons profile like the post count, It'll pretty much FORCE people to be more observant, and use their brains to determine who the good posters are. It'll help people think more critically in the long run, and cull the posters that just post for their ego's sake instead of posting to add contribute to a discussion. I think that people/communities who feel they "need" any kind of measuring system do so to mask the fact that they a)feel not so adequate in their own life, so they have to use these petty systems on a discussion forum to make them feel better (and forums are not psychiatry offices) and b)promotes behavior to mask that feeling of inadequacy. . .kinda like how anime tends to rely on fan service once the directors/writers realize that they cant make a decent show without a ton of flaws.

It's actually insulting to the intelligence of people that post on the site. There is no way that someone CAN'T tell if a poster is a good poster or not, a good poster is able to present their points in a way that can shine light on why they have a certain opinion, and do that WITHOUT passively aggressively attacking the opinions of others. . .that's pretty much what taking away all these unnecessary measurements would promote. It would be like taking the training wheels of the bike, or taking the alcohol away from a drunkard etc etc. . .in the long run people will be able to just make better posts, and recognize those who make those posts. Those that can't do either, wont be a part of the community, leaving the rest of those still here to make the community here way better than it is. . .which in turn would draw more new people who can have or can learn the aforementioned skills (being a good poster/recognizing good posters)

Measuring systems arent needed at all.
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Old 2012-12-16, 16:45   Link #27
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ_Walker View Post
yeah it solves a lot of issues associated with that. . .personally I also think that the join date should be removed too, just put in the persons profile like the post count, It'll pretty much FORCE people to be more observant, and use their brains to determine who the good posters are.
It's strange to me that you're talking about how these measures are insulting to users and make it so that nobody has to think about who the good posters are. Isn't it insulting to imply that people are relying on these measures (which don't really indicate anything other than what they're specifically measuring) instead of the content of posts?

But looking at your suggestions, why not take it a step farther? How about we get rid of user accounts all together and have a system like 2ch or 4chan, where it's all completely anonymous? Sure, it would create a very warped sense of community (and if you want to talk about psychiatry offices... well, hmm) but then you'd really be judging the post based on the post, itself.

I hate the idea, because I like to get to know who else is participating in the community. It adds flair and flavor to the forum. But I'm interested to know, what do you think about that idea?
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Old 2012-12-16, 17:41   Link #28
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
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I don't really care either way (about the post count), but as for figuring out who's worth reading or not... Won't those who invest time in the forum figure it out soon enough? As for the others, won't they just not care?

I don't like the idea of an anonymous forum either. For much the same reasons.
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Old 2012-12-16, 18:09   Link #29
james0246
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I'm actually somewhat embarrassed by my 3.18 posts/day figure! But then retirement is not far off. (Checks his retirement savings.) Well, maybe it is...
I'll see your 3.18 and raise you 5.78 . I'm about to break 12,000 posts, and I'm not embarrassed, and I do not understand why others should be. Posting a lot does not indicate anything other than a desire to discuss various opinions and ideas with others during the course of a day (it also doesn't mean spending more than an hour or so a day on this forum). I don't take any real pride in my amount of posts, but I am also not embarrassed by them either (I figure at least 7,000 of them are centered in the Bleach, Naruto and One Piece sub-forums, and if I can admit that, then what do I have to feel embarrassed about ).

---

As for the OP...well, it's a little silly to focus on amount of posts (or rep, join date, amount of friends, amount of threads started, amount of pms/vms received, or any other statistic you can mention) as indicators of anything beyond possible experience in using the various forum tools or knowing your way around the different sub-forums. My amount of posts does not make me a better or worse discussion partner on these forums nor should it add or detract the weight of my post (being a moderator should do that automatically ). Quantifying membership seems downright prejudicial and very unnecessary.
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Old 2012-12-16, 22:25   Link #30
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I myself can't think of any other internet message board that has neither a rep system or public post counts.
There are quite a few. Most serious discussion forums have very few bells and whistles, and for some having an avatar at all is about as fancy as they get. Go visit Neogaf, for example. Absolutely huge forum, very little fluff.

Veterans know who veterans are by participation in the community. As a very old member (gets out cane and mumbles something about kids these days), I've seen a lot of people come and go. And honestly, join date and posts aren't even a good measure. Veterans remember the forum crash that wiped out everything - even my join date is a "lie". I've been around here since 2004 as a lurker, but in 2005 my account was part of the crash and I had to re-register in 2006. I didn't post much back then until after I registered the second time.

Frankly I'd much rather see discussion be less "Facebook" and more quality, meaning people going back to making posts with good content and not vain appeals for attention. And yes, I say that as someone who is basically max on rep, and have been for a while. I built the rep by being a constant presence in the community, but I didn't do it for the rep, and I won't stop because the rep is gone. I did it to build a name, which is what I hope people notice when they see my posts and hopefully they associated it with good things (although I'm sure that's not anywhere near as true as I hope ).

I don't want my eventual fading from the forums to be "oh yeah, that guy with all those decorations", I want it to be "oh yeah, that guy made a lot of good posts".

One of my favorite quotes:

"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." - Jackie Robinson
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Old 2012-12-16, 22:32   Link #31
Marcus H.
Hunk o' Burning Love
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
We already have our Join Dates posted. That's already good enough for me.

PS: I have 5005 posts. inb4 KOOOOOOOOOOOOG
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Old 2012-12-17, 00:11   Link #32
Westlo
Lets be reality
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
There are quite a few. Most serious discussion forums have very few bells and whistles, and for some having an avatar at all is about as fancy as they get. Go visit Neogaf, for example. Absolutely huge forum, very little fluff.
Can we take a page out of Neogaf and also banish Join Dates to profiles?
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Old 2012-12-17, 00:38   Link #33
Midonin
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I myself can't think of any other internet message board that has neither a rep system or public post counts.
My primary message board has neither. The post counts are displayed, but only because of a board upgrade - the original admin didn't want them. By removing those things, the content of the posts themselves becomes important, above all else.
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Old 2012-12-17, 05:40   Link #34
NoemiChan
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In counting post counts.. does it include the "unreported troll post and jokes"?

and another thing for example

Member A joined in 2004 posted only 1000 post but are very helpful and intelligent in content....

then

Member B joined in 2010 but posted 5000 post 3/4 are video links, jokes, questions etc...

Based on the example wouldn't it make Member B appear more active and "superior" to Member A?

Don't get me wrong, just asking...
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Old 2012-12-17, 09:47   Link #35
Marcus H.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
^ Not really, especially if he posts too much trash that you'd still recognize him as a trashposter despite posting all the time.
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LIGHT NOVEL CHALLENGE: Absolute Duo, Seiken Tsukai no World Break and Sister of Testament New Devil.


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Old 2012-12-17, 12:10   Link #36
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Age: 57
Eyah, I see enough posts from people who joined many years ago but who apparently never read the forum rules (e.g. "wears the warez!!!?") or people who consistently toss out pointless one-liners no matter what their join date to worry about post counts.

My post counts only reflect that I read fast and type fast ... whee ;P
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Old 2012-12-17, 12:51   Link #37
Solace
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Can we take a page out of Neogaf and also banish Join Dates to profiles?
It's funny you mention this. My first reaction is "yeah, why not?".....but then I think about one of the big problems with very old forums, which is the nostalgia that comes from that history. To me, it's frustrating and funny at the same time, as there are some older members who have painted a somewhat rosy picture of the earlier years, even though it's not really as accurate as they remember.

Just look at the responses from the decision to put the rep system on hiatus temporarily, and it's not hard to see why we tend to keep things as status quo for (probably) longer than we should. Truth is, we're very much a site and forum that was built for a somewhat different community than exists today. This makes every notable change all the more difficult to do, as every change (or suggestion of change), no matter how seemingly simple or innocent in intent, becomes controversial.
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Old 2012-12-17, 13:14   Link #38
Ledgem
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
It's funny you mention this. My first reaction is "yeah, why not?".....but then I think about one of the big problems with very old forums, which is the nostalgia that comes from that history. To me, it's frustrating and funny at the same time, as there are some older members who have painted a somewhat rosy picture of the earlier years, even though it's not really as accurate as they remember.
Does it really matter what the older members think? Since I've been accused of wanting to return the forums to the way that they were in 2003 a few times, I understand that question may sound rhetorical or spiked with malice, but I assure you there's none of that. Look, the decision to remove the reputation system was made without consulting popular opinion (no judgment in that statement - it is what it is). Whether it was removed today, three years ago, or three years from now, the reaction among the forum members would be the same as it is now. The same could be said for any other forum changes that will be made, whether with or without public support: some people will be upset, and some may even leave the forum.

But what does it matter? The hard reality is that you can't please everyone, and having seen the staff advising some upset members that they might want to seek out a different forum, I believe they've accepted that fact. Once you've accepted that the forum can't be everything to everyone, and once you've decided to make changes that aren't determined by public opinion, knowing full well that some forum members (including the "old ones") will be unhappy, what's really holding you back from making even more changes?

On the topic of scrubbing even more information from underneath a user's avatar, I really don't understand the request. The argument for removing that information seems to be that somehow people will focus more on the content of the post, instead of on who's writing it. As I've mentioned before, this makes me think of forums like 2ch and 4chan, where there's no such thing as a user account: people can use a handle with their posts, but most are anonymous, and nothing prevents multiple people from using the same handle. Is that really what people want?

I like western-style forums, with their user accounts, because the sense of community is greater. You can take interest in the people you're talking with, and not just the basic information in their post. Age, join date, gender, choice of user avatar, location - all of these are intriguing facts about the person whose thoughts and opinions you're reading and interacting with. They add "flavor" to posts and can aid in understanding what a person is trying to say, and why they're saying it. I don't think I'm unique in saying that I am not blinded by user information or that it heavily biases me when I read someone's posts. This concern that the personal information somehow gets in the way of discussion really seems like a non-issue. My worry is what effect this drive for "depersonalization" would have on the sense of community in the forum.
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Old 2012-12-17, 13:24   Link #39
Klashikari
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Age: 28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
I like western-style forums, with their user accounts, because the sense of community is greater. You can take interest in the people you're talking with, and not just the basic information in their post. Age, join date, gender, choice of user avatar, location - all of these are intriguing facts about the person whose thoughts and opinions you're reading and interacting with. They add "flavor" to posts and can aid in understanding what a person is trying to say, and why they're saying it. I don't think I'm unique in saying that I am not blinded by user information or that it heavily biases me when I read someone's posts. This concern that the personal information somehow gets in the way of discussion really seems like a non-issue. My worry is what effect this drive for "depersonalization" would have on the sense of community in the forum.
I will ask you this: in what way number of posts and join date have any effect of the personality of a member?
Frankly, I don't really care if the join date stay or is removed (and the idea never crossed our mind in the mod team), but talking about it, I surely see no reason to keep it either.

It is really not the same as username, avatars etc: username define the user (obviously) so not only you can track their posts later on and identify them, whereas Signature and Avatar give a quick idea of what they currently like/promote and so on.

However, what is the importance of the join date here? I sincerely see nothing much aside of how long the member has been around, and that doesn't say much if they went on hiatus for a long time, to which happened to various members, "unknown" or "popular" alike.
It doesn't define the "identity" of the user, unlike age and gender. It is probably because I hardly have any notion of "elder - junior" regarding any community in the internet, but frankly I put personality on a specific member with their tastes (anime list, avatar, signature, title), arguments and writing style, and other interactions if there is any.

Pretty much like Solace, that pulled me a "yeah why not?" but hardly anything to debate, considering it doesn't really harm anything (unlike post count that surely have potential negative effects, and the rep system).
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Old 2012-12-17, 13:40   Link #40
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I will ask you this: in what way number of posts and join date have any effect of the personality of a member?
It doesn't affect their personality, it's a "flavor" aspect. How people use it will obviously vary from person to person (which applies to many things - case in point, your interpretation of a user's avatar and signature are apparently different from mine), but it's helpful information all the same. Since you asked, I'll tell you how I use this information.

When I join a new forum I take an interest in join dates. It's a quick way to see who's invested in the community. While it's true that someone could make an account, disappear for a few years, and then return, that's pretty uncommon (and our own forum statistics back that up - or at least, they did when NightWish collected them about a year or two ago). It's also an easy way to spot "griefers" - someone exhibiting a bad attitude with a recent join date likely isn't invested in the community, and if the poor behavior is fairly consistent in a short span, it becomes very apparent what their purpose on the forum is. (This was particularly useful on forums lacking a reputation system.)

Within AnimeSuki, I find it useful as a way to orient myself. I disappear for months at a time, during which new members join and take up positions within the community. Their join date allows me to know whether these are members who joined while I was absent, or if they've always been on the forum but just spent most of their time in areas that I didn't frequent. If they're brand new, I'll occasionally go out of my way to welcome them to the forum. Community feel and all, you know? It can also be a nice excuse to strike up conversation via the fancy visitor message system.

That's my brief take on it (I can probably write up an essay on other uses and interpretations), but I doubt it will persuade anyone who believes that a forum should be 99% focused on the content of posts. I'll say again, scrubbing this information and/or hiding it away in the user profile would be depersonalizing the forum for a concern that doesn't seem to exist in reality. What's the point of it, and is it worth the potential drawback?
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