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Old 2012-12-17, 15:07   Link #241
Haladflire65
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I haven't been posting at AS for a while but wanted to put in my two cents in this thread. I never had a really strong opinion about the rep system, probably because I haven't had any major issues with it. That said, I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy watching my green bars increase and getting nice positive rep with messages from users that I often didn't even know. I definitely see all the problems the system had however, and that the decision to retire it is a very valid one. (very sudden too though, I didn't see this coming!)

To those of you discussing a different replacement system for reps, I'm just curious - do you think it's at all possible to have something that doesn't cause the formation of cliques, friends supporting each other, taking sides, e.g. some of the reasons this system was abolished? With any kind of feedback system, this is going to be inevitable, at least when I think about it; I don't know a whole lot about alternatives though, since AS has been the sole large forum I've frequented for a few years. I mean, of course users will go support their friends who have similar likes and opinions with them in conversations, of course people will want to "like" a post they agree with, of course cliques will appear if the system isn't anonymous. Is it really feasible to ask people to judge posts solely on their quality as long as AS stays a traditional Western forum with user profiles and avatars as opposed to ones like 2chan or 4chan?

Unless as a user mentioned earlier (sorry, I've been scrolling through far too many pages XD), the lack of a rep system sees an increase in flaming and bad behaviour, do you guys think that another feedback system like is absolutely necessary?

Sorry if I've missed any points that might be relevant to my post, I don't have the time to read through all 13 pages of this thread carefully
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Old 2012-12-17, 15:38   Link #242
karice67
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I'm also glad to see the system as a whole go, to be honest, because I really didn't like anonymous neg rep that you couldn't respond to. (I used it twice - I think - and always signed it.)

Just my two cents, building on something said about reputation in another thread back in April:

Quote:
Hmm, if you hide your reputation why would you care anyways? Unless you turn it back on just to see it, in which case you sorta do care.

But I guess it'd make sense to make it all, rep related things, invisible to people that "opt out" and want to have it hidden.
I hid my reputation almost immediately after joining the forum, and really didn't care about it until I realised that people were commenting on my posts with the system. After that, I did start rep'ping people, and would check my reputation once in a while for such comments. As such, I think I would like a neutral feedback option, though only if it's not anonymous...
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Old 2012-12-17, 15:42   Link #243
Animizzle
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I have to say, the rep power really exploded after a while. When I first joined this forum and after I wrote the FAQ (which has been unstickied for obvious reasons), NoSanninWa had the most rep with a back then almost unbelievable 4 green dots. At the time, that seemed almost unattainable. I remember while writing it that I thought few would ever get to reputation beyond repute.

I guess with the rep-power system the rep-spreading grew exponentially and the current situation ensued. Not unlike other forums though. I guess I always remembered AS forum as that forum where each green dot was extremely coveted. It was only recently that I noticed tons of people having a massive rep.

Shame for the still active users, hope you can find a suitable replacement. Forum hiearchy, albeit via a slightly flawed system, does play an important part on forums, in my opinion.
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Old 2012-12-17, 15:44   Link #244
Anh_Minh
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I like knowing some of my posts were funny to somebody other than me. I like being able to agree with people without making it a thing.

Though come to think of it, I guess I don't care all that much about the display of reputation. Or even the point count.

(Oh, and to be fair, I am annoyed when people use the system to argue with me without giving me an opportunity to argue back.)
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Old 2012-12-17, 16:11   Link #245
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well so far seem the forum become less enthusiast... well that how i fell.

we will see after 24 Dec if there is any change in enthusiasm
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Old 2012-12-17, 17:25   Link #246
justsomeguy
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Good riddance. For a while now I've gotten the feeling that certain members with high reps had a sense of pride and entitlement, nevermind the cowardly drive-by negreppers who would rather leave some snarky strawman comment than defend their positions in the actual forum. Though personally, having a positive-only, capped, non-anonymous rep system might have been more productive than total removal.
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Old 2012-12-17, 18:34   Link #247
Kakashi
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I will remember the rep system for the mysterious strangers who left me unexpected positive reps and left it anonymous. There's a nice feeling in knowing someone out there gave your post special recognition in their minds. Also, I always found the rep system a good way to foster the community especially in forums where members became familiar with each other and sort of boosted each others rep.

That said, I don't particularly mind it being demolished anymore. My obsession with rep has long passed.
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Old 2012-12-17, 19:44   Link #248
ForwardUntoDawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
I congratulate the moderators for finally doing away with this system. Ever since its introduction I have found the rep system to be a hindrance against expression. Under this system most people only want to post things that others want hear. This leads to an atmosphere where people are afraid of expressing their core beliefs for fear of reprisal.

Isn't this supposed to be an anonymous forum where people are shielded by the ever judging eyes of society? A temple of freedom where any individual can let his ideas fly without fear of odd and silent stares? A virtual land where complete strangers migrate to the safety and warmth of the interwebs to shamelessly blossom into the real inner beings that always were but never could be?

Reputation points are some kind of ego stroking currency. It is considered such a precious commodity that in its obsessional pursue critical thinking and constructive criticism are drowned and devoured in a sea of epeen infested shark waters.

And with this short rant I conclude my first and only say on this matter.

The end.
I've more or less felt the same way. Despite most people saying they've been more or less neutral on the matter, I've noted many of them to be the people with the numerous dots under their names The removal of the rep system will be, as the moderators say, a fresh, brand-new start that should encourage free discussion.

Any post that is problematic can be rectified by the 'report' button, which should only be used to report posts that are trouble, anyways. By stripping the means from which to belittle others, I think that discussions and conversations about anime and other material here will become, in fact, more substantial and meaningful. Thus, my reaction to the removal has been upped to the following:

Spoiler:


The worth of an individual is not determined by these green dots and the corresponding ability to grant/remove them from others, but rather, their willingness to discuss things and listen to alternate viewpoints. I've heard one or two horror stories about newcomers disagreeing with the veterans and losing a years' worth of reputation points over the course of a day: truthfully, that doesn't reflect on AnimeSuki's image as an anime forum with open-minded individuals.
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Old 2012-12-18, 03:51   Link #249
kenjiharima
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I feel this change is good. I agree with this statement, it happens alot.

Quote:
the reputation system as currently implemented has resulted in some behaviour that could be seen as negative, such as "anonymous coward" negative rep (including nasty or inappropriate rep comments), and a general preoccupation with the "power" some people feel reputation points represent (including the formation of "cliques" who encourage each other via rep).
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Old 2012-12-18, 04:18   Link #250
Larthak
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A good change; the rep system was abused a little too much and people's opinions were somewhat fake or even childish at times. The positive rep spam can finally stop and I'm fairly sure the "neg reppers" will disappear completely as well, people like that are too scared to engage in an open argument with others.
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Old 2012-12-18, 05:18   Link #251
garbage
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just my 2 cents, never really cared much about the rep system.( In fact I always wondered how some people get those to go high ^^I only learned these so called techniques reading this thread ahaha). Anyway reading all the previous posts in these thread. I do believe the MODS did the right thing doing away with this system.

neg rep, with senseless or no comments are annoying, but its just that. wouldn't really affect you if you don't let it. I admit though it's nice to receive good comments on a post you did, take note i appreciate the good reps mostly because of the good comments with it. those without comments i tend to dismiss too, sometimes in wonder on why it was pos-repped in the first place. actually I hardly visit my usercp anyways probably once /2-3 mo. I mean i have little time as it is to read and participate in the discussion on my fave shows which is more important to me anyhow.

So in summary
- removing the rep system is good IMO
- any substitute/replacement that has similar PUBLIC "points" , "rating" "likes" system, call it what you will, will just invite the same problem down the road.
- nevertheless it is nice to be able to thank, comment, rate, critique (positively) or whatever any post. I believe this could be constructive, just make it PRIVATE visible only to the poster him/herself. and never should it be public as to make some sort of stratification, or used as a means to do such.

anyway hope this can be helpful.
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Old 2012-12-18, 09:02   Link #252
Kyero Fox
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Instead we should just say what we'd normally do but post it as a visitor message. More bonds may forge that way. Am i right?
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Old 2012-12-18, 11:17   Link #253
Gooral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Eh, I can't really agree with this because I generally tend to have unpopular opinions on this forum and look at my bars. (...)
I checked your last 100 posts or so and don't see these "unpopular opinions". In fact you tend to post in the threads of most popular anime and write positive things about them and with almost 4000 posts (with over 2 posts per day average) it's not surprising that any negative effect turns out to be insignificant. But for people who do not have as much time to write posts (or who aren't interested in shitty anime which are the most popular) it suddenly becomes significant and such a person can get a red bar easily. In general people who criticize a certain anime, even after presenting tons of valid arguments aren't welcome in the threads and many users try to drive them away by giving neg reps. As a result in most threads you can see people agreeing with each other (all in all, people's opinion differs a little but in general when you check One Piece threads for example, you will see "great chapter" posts all over). This makes the forums less interesting than they could be since the most interesting discussions come from people with totally different opinions.

Also, it may be that you've started posting these unpopular opinions only now that you've reached over 1000 points. If you would start with 1 point and wrote them, I think you would have an entirely different view and either switch the reputation off, delete the account and start a new one or start writing what other people want to read. Correct me me if I'm wrong.
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Old 2012-12-18, 12:10   Link #254
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garbage View Post
just my 2 cents, never really cared much about the rep system.( In fact I always wondered how some people get those to go high ^^I only learned these so called techniques reading this thread ahaha). Anyway reading all the previous posts in these thread. I do believe the MODS did the right thing doing away with this system.

neg rep, with senseless or no comments are annoying, but its just that. wouldn't really affect you if you don't let it. I admit though it's nice to receive good comments on a post you did, take note i appreciate the good reps mostly because of the good comments with it. those without comments i tend to dismiss too, sometimes in wonder on why it was pos-repped in the first place. actually I hardly visit my usercp anyways probably once /2-3 mo. I mean i have little time as it is to read and participate in the discussion on my fave shows which is more important to me anyhow.

So in summary
- removing the rep system is good IMO
- any substitute/replacement that has similar PUBLIC "points" , "rating" "likes" system, call it what you will, will just invite the same problem down the road.
- nevertheless it is nice to be able to thank, comment, rate, critique (positively) or whatever any post. I believe this could be constructive, just make it PRIVATE visible only to the poster him/herself. and never should it be public as to make some sort of stratification, or used as a means to do such.

anyway hope this can be helpful.
Not everyone used "techniques" to get their green dots. Many of the posters simply attracted a lot of posrep over time.

That said, I'm not really going to miss the rep system. It is going to make more work for the mods (since the reporting will go up as the only tool for community behavior management).

Right now, to PM or VM someone requires knowing there's a drop down r-click menu. Perhaps a button or two where the rep button used to be that would open VM/PM boxes or link to the appropriate page would be useful?
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Old 2012-12-18, 14:08   Link #255
TheFluff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
I checked your last 100 posts or so and don't see these "unpopular opinions". In fact you tend to post in the threads of most popular anime and write positive things about them and with almost 4000 posts (with over 2 posts per day average) it's not surprising that any negative effect turns out to be insignificant. But for people who do not have as much time to write posts (or who aren't interested in shitty anime which are the most popular) it suddenly becomes significant and such a person can get a red bar easily. In general people who criticize a certain anime, even after presenting tons of valid arguments aren't welcome in the threads and many users try to drive them away by giving neg reps. As a result in most threads you can see people agreeing with each other (all in all, people's opinion differs a little but in general when you check One Piece threads for example, you will see "great chapter" posts all over). This makes the forums less interesting than they could be since the most interesting discussions come from people with totally different opinions.

Also, it may be that you've started posting these unpopular opinions only now that you've reached over 1000 points. If you would start with 1 point and wrote them, I think you would have an entirely different view and either switch the reputation off, delete the account and start a new one or start writing what other people want to read. Correct me me if I'm wrong.
do the same with my post history, please (it's probably the best entertainment on this entire forum)
(and while doing so, please note that some of my best posts have been deleted or edited because the moderators hate freedom me telling people that their favorite anime sucks)

if you can't be bothered, here are some highlights:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...44#post4137944 (I got infracted for this and the post has been edited by relentlessflame, fuck the police)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...91#post4177591 (a "helpful" post)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...10#post4217010 (I really, really hate people necroing old shitty threads)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...33#post4021633 (people really didn't seem to like this opinion of mine for some reason)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...63#post3763363 (this post speaks for itself, really (got a warning for it))
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...53#post3902153 (meta)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...83#post3549683 (I'm sort of amazed I got away with this; all the mods must've been on vacation or something)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...29#post3371929 (actually I think the entire "fansub groups" subforum was just completely unmoderated for a while in 2010-2011)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...84#post3427884 (yep, 2011 was a good year)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...28#post3111228 (~fuck anime~)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...10#post3078310 (yep.)


seriously, my post history is about a 60/40 mix of technical advice and telling people they're retarded, and I still have a very positive reputation. useful for detecting trolls? I don't think so, brah.
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read

Last edited by TheFluff; 2012-12-18 at 15:05.
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Old 2012-12-18, 15:06   Link #256
KholdStare
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Ah yes, the one thing I will miss is neg-repping Fluff. As you can obviously see from the fact that he keeps a list of posts he made to piss people off, this isn't about "freedom" to express opinions or whatever. Some people are contrarians on purpose or perhaps enjoy mixing in personal attacks with valid points as an excuse to have flaming posts. Of course, why he thinks his posts are most entertaining is beyond me. I just automatically scroll past them because I don't want to get trolled. This is a great example of not using some green bar to judge posts and do it from experience.

But I digress. It's exactly what Vexx said, the people who artificially pump up their rep are in the very small minority that most users wouldn't notice, and even the mods agree to this.

@ForwardUntoDawn and Animizzle: Yes, rep power was amazingly horrid and is in fact the main reason for me to agree to this change. But this can be easily remedied by making all reps unweighted and is definitely worth a try.
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Old 2012-12-18, 15:11   Link #257
TheFluff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
As you can obviously see from the fact that he keeps a list of posts he made to piss people off
while I sort of wish that I could say that I did this, in reality I'm way too lazy and just checked the last few pages of my post history; there's no shortage of this kind of posts in it, really
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2012-12-18, 15:15   Link #258
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
do the same with my post history, please (it's probably the best entertainment on this entire forum)
(and while doing so, please note that some of my best posts have been deleted or edited because the moderators hate freedom me telling people that their favorite anime sucks)

if you can't be bothered, here are some highlights:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...44#post4137944 (I got infracted for this and the post has been edited by relentlessflame, fuck the police)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...91#post4177591 (a "helpful" post)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...10#post4217010 (I really, really hate people necroing old shitty threads)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...33#post4021633 (people really didn't seem to like this opinion of mine for some reason)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...63#post3763363 (this post speaks for itself, really (got a warning for it))
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...53#post3902153 (meta)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...83#post3549683 (I'm sort of amazed I got away with this; all the mods must've been on vacation or something)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...29#post3371929 (actually I think the entire "fansub groups" subforum was just completely unmoderated for a while in 2010-2011)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...84#post3427884 (yep, 2011 was a good year)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...28#post3111228 (~fuck anime~)
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...10#post3078310 (yep.)


seriously, my post history is about a 60/40 mix of technical advice and telling people they're retarded, and I still have a very positive reputation. useful for detecting trolls? I don't think so, brah.
Not bad at all. Problem is that you burn yourself out too fast, and while your posts are sharp, they don't really get that many replies because you get modded too fast and repeat the same pattern a bit too much. Honestly, your time: people's wasted time ratio could be better.
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Old 2012-12-18, 15:17   Link #259
TheFluff
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I'm not really in it for wasting people's time, though. Most of the time I'm actually genuinely irritated by something someone wrote, which really is a pretty bad situation for a "troll" to be in.
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17:43:13 <~deculture> Also, TheFluff, you are so fucking slowpoke.jpg that people think we dropped the DVD's.
17:43:16 <~deculture> nice job, fag!

01:04:41 < Plorkyeran> it was annoying to typeset so it should be annoying to read
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Old 2012-12-18, 15:18   Link #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
I'm not really in it for wasting people's time, though. Most of the time I'm actually genuinely irritated by something someone wrote, which really is a pretty bad situation for a "troll" to be in.
Ah, and you're actually trying to be helpful too in some of them. Touche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
Ah yes, the one thing I will miss is neg-repping Fluff. As you can obviously see from the fact that he keeps a list of posts he made to piss people off, this isn't about "freedom" to express opinions or whatever. Some people are contrarians on purpose or perhaps enjoy mixing in personal attacks with valid points as an excuse to have flaming posts. Of course, why he thinks his posts are most entertaining is beyond me. I just automatically scroll past them because I don't want to get trolled. This is a great example of not using some green bar to judge posts and do it from experience.
You seem awfully afraid of being "trolled" on a message board. Post is a bit ironic considering how specific it is, don't you think?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
I checked your last 100 posts or so and don't see these "unpopular opinions". In fact you tend to post in the threads of most popular anime and write positive things about them and with almost 4000 posts (with over 2 posts per day average) it's not surprising that any negative effect turns out to be insignificant. But for people who do not have as much time to write posts (or who aren't interested in shitty anime which are the most popular) it suddenly becomes significant and such a person can get a red bar easily. In general people who criticize a certain anime, even after presenting tons of valid arguments aren't welcome in the threads and many users try to drive them away by giving neg reps. As a result in most threads you can see people agreeing with each other (all in all, people's opinion differs a little but in general when you check One Piece threads for example, you will see "great chapter" posts all over). This makes the forums less interesting than they could be since the most interesting discussions come from people with totally different opinions.

Also, it may be that you've started posting these unpopular opinions only now that you've reached over 1000 points. If you would start with 1 point and wrote them, I think you would have an entirely different view and either switch the reputation off, delete the account and start a new one or start writing what other people want to read. Correct me me if I'm wrong.
You are probably alone in this interpretation, lol. (No offense to Mr. Reckoner) But that's okay. You can't possibly know or care about every poster on this board. And nor should you.

100 posts is a pretty small sample size that covers a month or two if someone posts frequently enough. No matter how many crappy series you watch, it can only amount to so many. If you checked my last 100 post most of them are bullshit one liners about recent episodes. That doesn't mean that I always post bullshit. Oh wait...

Anyhow, I believe he posted those 5 red dot image which is an even smaller sample size, but unless you can provide anything that matches it, it is what it is. And because I r bored and like to use the search function which took about 5 seconds.

Warning: Spoilers for their intended series
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...12#post4472712
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...39#post4448839
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...48#post4443748
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...97#post4440697

Note: These aren't bad posts. Just that people might be inclined to disagree strongly with them.

Though sadly, I myself have only gotten an angry PM or two from people that were mad I insulted their crap. I have much to learn I guess.
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