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Old 2012-12-18, 15:42   Link #261
Gooral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
(...)
100 posts is a pretty small sample size that covers a month or two. If you checked my last 100 post most of them are bullshit one liners about recent episodes. That doesn't mean that I always post bullshit. Oh wait...
Except he said that in general he tends to have unpopular opinions on this forum. So you're saying that his last 100 posts showing something exactly opposite is just a freaking coincidence?
Quote:
(...) Anyhow, I believe he posted those 5 red dot image which is an even smaller sample size, but unless you can provide anything that matches it, it is what it is. And because I r bored and like to use the search function which took about 5 seconds. (...)
From the looks of it it was an unusual period (no stupid jokes please) for him, hence he made a screenshot. With his rate of posting I doubt that the last reputation he got was 2 months ago (and this screenshot shows reps from 2-3 months ago).
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Old 2012-12-18, 15:48   Link #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
Except he said that in general he tends to have unpopular opinions on this forum. So you're saying that his last 100 posts showing something exactly opposite is just a freaking coincidence?
Because I just said 100 posts doesn't reflect "in general" and represents a small time frame?

No it isn't showing something the exact opposite. I skimmed some posts that would cause some disagreement already in a few seconds And it's not like people wake up some day and go "herp derp time to randomly disagree with people" Statically significant doesn't mean it's guaranteed at regular intervals.

Quote:
From the looks of it it was an unusual period (no stupid jokes please) for him, hence he made a screenshot. With his rate of posting I doubt that the last reputation he got was 2 months ago (and this screenshot shows reps from 2-3 months ago).
Well, that might be the case, but you can't assume that much. I've seen him around a lot more than you, and I'll just say you are wrong.
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Old 2012-12-18, 15:48   Link #263
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
But I digress. It's exactly what Vexx said, the people who artificially pump up their rep are in the very small minority that most users wouldn't notice, and even the mods agree to this.
No, this is definitely not the case. I disagree entirely.



As for this, and the like:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
because the moderators hate freedom me telling people that their favorite anime sucks [...] (I got infracted for this and the post has been edited by relentlessflame, fuck the police)
Normally I don't like to deal with these sorts of things in public, but might as well at this point once and for all.

Nobody has the freedom to post a personal attack on this forum.

And, further, it is the responsibility of the staff to determine what constitutes a personal attack.

By continuing to post on this site, you accept and acknowledge that it is entirely at the staff's discretion to edit or remove your posts if you engage in behaviour that is considered inappropriate. As it states in the Rules:

Quote:
Insults, harassment, flaming, trolling, baiting or other similar abusive behaviour towards other members of The Forum will not be tolerated. This includes the use of "retort images". Images used to convey a "come back" message (i.e. to "retort") are forbidden in all areas of The Forum, they are often offensive and only serve to ignite flame wars.
So, no, you can't tell people they suck for their taste in anime (or for any other subjective reason or opinion). And if being able to do this is so very important to you, then you can go away. There are plenty of other places on the Internet where you can be an asshole with impunity. This is not such a place.


Anyway, let me "hate freedom" some more and ask that people not make this into a "going into my post history and pointing out all my posts that got neg rep" (or should have gotten infractions) thread. It's off-topic and distracting from the issue at hand. I'm not sure what benefit it was to point out things infraction-worthy that were "missed" in the past. Do you really want me to issue the infractions you were due now?
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Old 2012-12-18, 15:55   Link #264
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@relentlessflame: Perhaps it's very noticeable if you're a mod who has to deal with these things on a daily basis. I have 7,088 posts on AS (not very high relative to some but significant nonetheless) and I swear I have not "noticed" someone who artificially boosts up their reputation, period. That's why I was very surprised when Klash said some do so. You have to be paying really close attention (as a casual poster) to who has what rep to notice a sudden jump. The only person I notice to be gaining rep very fast is james0246, and there's a good reason for that since he's a quality poster.

In short, mods and posters have different perspectives because of what they can and cannot see or what they have to deal with, etc...

@Archon_Wing: My post acknowledged that Fluff has valid points, but he mixes them in with personal attacks so it makes it not worth reading those points. You might not see them because most of it has been edited out by relentlessflame and others.
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Old 2012-12-18, 16:03   Link #265
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Relentless: I think there's a difference between telling someone their favorite anime sucks and they suck. Yes, not to defend Fluff or anything; he probably implies both, but the later is a lot worse.

Anyhow, this thread is indicative of why the rep system was removed, really. >.> It's too much work to mod. Anyhow, I will have to apologize to the mod team too, since honestly I shouldn't be wasting their time like this and accept partial responsibility for what happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
@Archon_Wing: My post acknowledged that Fluff has valid points, but he mixes them in with personal attacks so it makes it not worth reading those points. You might not see them because most of it has been edited out by relentlessflame and others.
And this is another reason to remove rep!

You had to specifically mention negging someone which is a personal attack of your own out of the blue, nonetheless. That's even worse, in a way. Note that two wrongs don't make a right, but you couldn't have just said "Negging people that..." And chances are you wouldn't do it publicly either til this happened.

Nothing against you, but at least you got your thoughts out.
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Old 2012-12-18, 16:10   Link #266
KholdStare
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Why are we assuming things here?

1) Assuming I neg rep Fluff on a daily basis on posts that are not directed towards me? In fact I recall saying I scroll past his posts and not read them at all.

2) Now, some people actually do this, go on a neg rep rampage targeted at some people they don't like. This is a good reason for me to support removing the current system and supporting an unweighted pos rep system.

EDIT: Apparently I misunderstood what you were saying. I don't see how mentioning an instance of "neg rep" is a personal attack. That would be saying all neg reps are personal attacks, regardless of reason. Or they're not personal attacks unless you explain why (like I did), which would make it a personal attack? I'm confused, but we're getting way too off-topic here. We are not here to discuss any single member and in fact I should probably delete the posts I made so we don't go down this route.

EDIT2: To not posting more about Fluff, I would like to clarify that my post was more or less my disgust in the response to the "list" he made. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother.
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Old 2012-12-18, 16:13   Link #267
Gooral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
(...) No it isn't showing something the exact opposite. I skimmed some posts that would cause some disagreement already in a few seconds (...)
Yeah. And now compare these posts with the rest of the posts in a sample I've chosen (i.e. about 100 most recent posts). You will see that in general he tends to have opinions that sit well with others. You're right that it can't be used as proof for that being the case for his posts in general but compare it now with the contrary statement. So far I haven't seen even a sign of proof that would suggest the opposite (i.e. what Reckoner said) is true.

Quote:
Well, that might be the case, but you can't assume that much.
Hence I've used words such as "from the looks of it" and "I doubt" which implies that it's only my assumption and I might be totally wrong. But it's easy to fix, I'm still waiting on Reckoner to correct me and clear this up (if he feels like it).

Anyway, it seems we won't agree on this. To you it's just a coincidence, to me not so much. And I don't have time nor desire to check more than 2.5% of his posts (which is already a significant number).
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Old 2012-12-18, 16:15   Link #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
Why are we assuming things here?

1) Assuming I neg rep Fluff on a daily basis on posts that are not directed towards me? In fact I recall saying I scroll past his posts and not read them at all.

2) Now, some people actually do this, go on a neg rep rampage targeted at some people they don't like. This is a good reason for me to support removing the current system and supporting an unweighted pos rep system.
I never said you neg him regularly and I didn't assume that. But the thing is you mentioned him specifically publicly. Most people wouldn't go "I neg Kholdstare because I have a grudge against ISML all the time"out of the blue unless you were replying to them.

Even if you said something about negging people like Fluff, it wouldn't sound like you are so targeting them. And in general, that just boosts people's online ego anyways.

Personally, no matter how much I dislike a poster, I'm not going to mention them specifically unless they reply to me. That's just me though.

@Gooral: I actually know Reckoner somewhat, so I understand the situation better. I was just messing with you. And of course you shouldn't check so many posts; you could do many more interesting things in the meantime
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Old 2012-12-18, 16:19   Link #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
Yeah. And now compare these posts with the rest of the posts in a sample I've chosen (i.e. about 100 most recent posts). You will see that in general he tends to have opinions that sit well with others. You're right that it can't be used as proof for that being the case for his posts in general but compare it now with the contrary statement. So far I haven't seen even a sign of proof that would suggest the opposite (i.e. what Reckoner said) is true. .
Considering those posts contain him saying he thought the latest SAO episode was awful,that he doesn't like kyoani shows such as k-on and that key is an overrated VN company I have to wonder if we're reading the same thing.

just look at the first message in this image he posted
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Old 2012-12-18, 16:23   Link #270
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
relentless, perhaps it's very noticeable if you're a mod who has to deal with these things on a daily basis. I have 7,088 posts on AS (not very high relative to some but significant nonetheless) and I swear I have not "noticed" someone who artificially boosts up their reputation, period. That's why I was very surprised when Klash said some do so. You have to be paying really close attention to who has what rep to notice a sudden jump. The only person I notice to be gaining rep very fast is james0246, and there's a good reason for that since he's a quality poster.
I don't think you will notice a "sudden jump". What you notice instead is the pattern of who is giving rep to whom and for what reasons, which -- I know -- you cannot see. That's not your fault. But we on the staff can see it.

For example, what sorts of posts are being encouraged using positive rep as an incentive? You would think it would be "good quality posts", right? (Perhaps based on personal experience from the sorts of posts you yourself received rep for.) Actually, some of the posts that got encouraged with rep are borderline trolling and vaguely insulting posts that "stick it to" other posters for their personal opinions (because the person giving the rep just happens to agree with that opinion), and this often by the same core group of posters who encourage each other in this sort of "circle jerking" clique. When this sort of post is encouraged, the person who left the rep makes another post to "support" the first person, expecting to receive rep in return, and so on. And, in watching the rep given, this is actually what happened. Although we have rules about "spreading rep around", it's not hard to "throw away" rep to meet this requirement, while still concentrating your efforts at boosting your "allies".

Now, will these sorts of cliques stop engaging in this sort of behaviour with rep gone? No, probably not. But we don't want to make it easier, or to see this sort of thing rewarded with ever-increasing green dots appearing next to their posts.

(Edit: To be clear, this isn't so different from what happens in reverse with negative rep. Sometimes you have a clique who are fans of something that ally together to "hammer down" any opinion that doesn't match their own (even if the opinion presented was reasonable-stated and otherwise a "good post"). This, I think, is probably more well-known to everyone because when it happens it causes more complaining. So what I'm describing is basically the same thing as that, just using positive rep instead of negative rep as a reinforcement tool. The goal is still the same: boost your "allies", hammer down your "enemies".)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Relentless: I think there's a difference between telling someone their favorite anime sucks and they suck.
There could be a difference, but it depends entirely on tone. You can dislike someone else's favourite show utterly, but still not be disrespectful towards those who enjoy it. It requires a certain amount of tact and consideration that, frankly, some people just don't care to show.

For example, some people believe that if I only direct my insults at the production staff (for example, call the director or writer an incompetent hack in the most insulting, direct way possible) that this is all "fair game" because they're not insulting someone in the room. That is such narrow, narrow thinking. Do you really not think that someone else should not feel offended just because they're not the one being personally attacked? Frankly, this behaviour is offensive even if you don't care at all about the show in question. I've seen people post that they hope a director gets hit by a bus (because of how much they dislike his or her work), and then try to defend this as if it isn't insulting. Unreal.

That's just one example of many I could give. If you can't be at least be respectful towards the work you're criticising (no matter how much you can't stand it), then you're not respectful in general. How am I really supposed to believe that this arrogance doesn't extend to the fans who may legitimately enjoy the work? Like "oh, I just lambasted this show for being utter sh*t, but that doesn't mean I don't respect your opinion!" Really? Really? Give me a break... (Most of the time, it's actually "I'll respect if your opinion if you can prove that my opinion is wrong". As if that's possible for subjective taste...)

Anyway, that's another tangent.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-12-18 at 16:48.
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Old 2012-12-18, 16:24   Link #271
KholdStare
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I think...I apologize, I shouldn't have made a discussion about one member. The same applies to Reckoner, we're not here to put people on trial. We really should try to get back on topic...

@Archon_Wing: Nah, when people have a problem with ISML, they have no problem actually posting on the thread about it, saying how it's just bots voting.

@relentlessflame: I see. It would certainly imply some wrongdoing is happening if that were to happen.

Last edited by KholdStare; 2012-12-18 at 16:40.
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Old 2012-12-18, 16:33   Link #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
we're not here to put people on trial.
Wha?....hrm. *puts down the torch and pitchfork*
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Old 2012-12-18, 16:41   Link #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Wha?....hrm. *puts down the torch and pitchfork*
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Old 2012-12-18, 16:59   Link #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
So, no, you can't tell people they suck for their taste in anime (or for any other subjective reason or opinion). And if being able to do this is so very important to you, then you can go away. There are plenty of other places on the Internet where you can be an asshole with impunity. This is not such a place.
I thought that with the strikeout, all-lowercase writing and use of phrases like "hate freedom", "fuck the police" and "your favorite anime sucks" it would be readily apparent that I was not being very serious, but apparently such was not the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I'm not sure what benefit it was to point out things infraction-worthy that were "missed" in the past. Do you really want me to issue the infractions you were due now?
It's your forum, you're free to do whatever you want. Just to make it absolutely clear, in case the note above was not enough: I'm absolutely not complaining about being "censored" or anything. The forum rules are clear, I've read them and understood them, I'm usually quite aware that I'm either toeing the line or outright breaking them, and I fully understand and expect that when I do so, there might be consequences.

I'll have to say though that the moderation practices have been amazingly inconsistent over the years. Right now you're forcefully reminding me about the rules regarding personal attacks, for example. That's well and good, the forum rules are clear on what is unacceptable behavior and I'm certainly not going to try to claim I'm innocent. You really haven't been enforcing the rules very strictly, though. I'll readily admit to occasionally having been even more abrasive than usual just to see what I could get away with, and the conclusion after all these years is "almost anything". Sometimes my posts have been edited to take out the most inflammatory bits without any comment, sometimes (quite rarely, actually) I've been warned or infracted, but most of the time the posts have just been left as they are. Even some of the posts that have been edited by moderators are still very thinly veiled variations of "fuck you and fuck anime" after the edit.

What's really interesting (and relevant to this thread) though is that while I've gotten one or a few negreps for being an asshole, I've also gotten a lot of positive reps from such posts, which is what I was trying to point out in the first place, although I certainly wasn't being very explicit about it. Maybe people think I'm funny or something, I dunno, but the point is that judging by my own experiences I'm pretty fucking certain that none of the claims people make about the reputation system somehow encouraging good posting are even remotely true. I've argued that before in several threads here, in complete honesty (although with the usual degree of snideness), and even though I really don't care very much about this community, I think the removal of the reputation system definitely won't hurt anything, but possibly change posting habits for the better.

For myself, I'm going to continue to write my very occasional posts in the way I want feel like writing them, and if you think either my opinions or the way I express them are unacceptable on this forum, it is your right and your duty to get rid of me. I really wouldn't take it personally if you did.

edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Actually, some of the posts that got encouraged with rep are borderline trolling and vaguely insulting posts that "stick it to" other posters for their personal opinions (because the person giving the rep just happens to agree with that opinion), and this often by the same core group of posters who encourage each other in this sort of "circle jerking" clique. When this sort of post is encouraged, the person who left the rep makes another post to "support" the first person, expecting to receive rep in return, and so on. And, in watching the rep given, this is actually what happened. Although we have rules about "spreading rep around", it's not hard to "throw away" rep to meet this requirement, while still concentrating your efforts at boosting your "allies".
This is pretty much exactly what I thought the patterns looked like. Thank you (I guess) for confirming that my hate for humanity is justified.
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Old 2012-12-18, 17:25   Link #275
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
For example, what sorts of posts are being encouraged using positive rep as an incentive? You would think it would be "good quality posts", right?
But that's the thing. Plenty of people think those "trolling posts" are of good quality. Because they're horrible, horrible people and/or 13 years old.


(Confession time: I'm fairly sure I've posrepped smackdowns of what I considered loudmouthed idiots. Though it was never about taste in anime.)
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Old 2012-12-18, 18:20   Link #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
I thought that with the strikeout, all-lowercase writing and use of phrases like "hate freedom", "fuck the police" and "your favorite anime sucks" it would be readily apparent that I was not being very serious, but apparently such was not the case.
I'll be honest with you: I figured you weren't being very serious, and I think I did understand your post. But I wanted to use your post to make a point to others as well. There are people on this forum who really do agree that personal attacks should be okay (or at least, let's call it "extremely aggressive opinions") and that any time the mods interfere we're being "fascist" and "against freedom" and all sorts of other things. And my post was mostly to emphasize that, actually, yes: people don't have total freedom to post whatever they want here. We do reserve the right to edit/delete things we deem inappropriate, and it's our job to make that judgement.

So if I was piggy-backing on your post, it's only because I thought that some people would actually miss the real point you were making, so I framed it a certain way deliberately (and in the process you couldn't see that I could see what you were getting at... but it came out in the end).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
I'll have to say though that the moderation practices have been amazingly inconsistent over the years. Right now you're forcefully reminding me about the rules regarding personal attacks, for example. That's well and good, the forum rules are clear on what is unacceptable behavior and I'm certainly not going to try to claim I'm innocent. You really haven't been enforcing the rules very strictly, though. I'll readily admit to occasionally having been even more abrasive than usual just to see what I could get away with, and the conclusion after all these years is "almost anything". Sometimes my posts have been edited to take out the most inflammatory bits without any comment, sometimes (quite rarely, actually) I've been warned or infracted, but most of the time the posts have just been left as they are. Even some of the posts that have been edited by moderators are still very thinly veiled variations of "fuck you and fuck anime" after the edit.
You are right. I think this is because we do want to try to leave as much room for diverse opinions as possible, so we really do try to not remove or edit things unnecessarily. But even then, I'm sure there is variation, and probably too much. We certainly don't follow every thread regularly, so things get missed (which is why we ask for people to send Reports). We could do better to be more consistent in this area so that at least people won't be surprised or take it so personally. But, at the same time, I don't like the insinuation people sometimes ascribe that we're trying to snuff out "controversial opinions" or "negativity". We do have to moderate tone to preserve civility -- granted that different people have different lines for what is "civil".

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
What's really interesting (and relevant to this thread) though is that while I've gotten one or a few negreps for being an asshole, I've also gotten a lot of positive reps from such posts, which is what I was trying to point out in the first place, although I certainly wasn't being very explicit about it. Maybe people think I'm funny or something, I dunno, but the point is that judging by my own experiences I'm pretty fucking certain that none of the claims people make about the reputation system somehow encouraging good posting are even remotely true. I've argued that before in several threads here, in complete honesty (although with the usual degree of snideness), and even though I really don't care very much about this community, I think the removal of the reputation system definitely won't hurt anything, but possibly change posting habits for the better.
Yup, that's basically the message I would send as well.

I think there are certain parts of the community that really do use rep the way it was intended: to reward good posting behaviour or as thanks for acts of kindness. But it's not like the people who have accumulated rep are necessarily going to use it "for good" either. Many people find themselves drawn to strongly-stated opinions that support their point of view, even if the way it's stated isn't really conducive to a good, civil discussion. (It reminds me so much of politics...) The people that get "patted on the back" are then encouraged to continue fishing for rep by posting that some point of view. I could point out a number of "talking points" in particular that we saw all over the forums at some point that were just "rep bait". This is why I always had to tell people: don't complain about negative rep not being "objective", because positive rep definitely isn't "objective" either. But people rarely got mad about "unfair" positive rep, only about those "unfair" red dots. It's a double-standard at best.

I actually did have someone PM me once to say that he felt bad for getting positive rep for a post he felt didn't deserve it (it may have been someone else's throwaway rep). He didn't have a lot of points either. I swear, my faith in humanity was restored a bit that day, and *I* wanted to give him the positive rep.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
For myself, I'm going to continue to write my very occasional posts in the way I want feel like writing them, and if you think either my opinions or the way I express them are unacceptable on this forum, it is your right and your duty to get rid of me. I really wouldn't take it personally if you did.
I'll be honest with you: I have a lot more respect for someone who wilfully pushes the limits and doesn't complain when they get caught, then someone who pushes the limits all the time but still throws a temper tantrum for anyone daring to call them on it ("How could I possibly have done anything wrong?! Haven't you ever heard of freedom of speech?! Why didn't you infract this other guy that I deem equally responsible?! It's so unfair!!").


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
(Confession time: I'm fairly sure I've posrepped smackdowns of what I considered loudmouthed idiots. Though it was never about taste in anime.)
Honestly, I think it's hard to find anyone that doesn't appreciate these sorts of deserved "smackdowns". I have to be totally candid: sometimes we have to moderate a post because it goes too far (personal attacks and the like), but that doesn't mean we totally disagree with the intention of what was said. Some posters are just being jerks in the way they state their opinions, so they shouldn't be surprised by being "called out" on it. But in the end, obviously we can't moderate based on the opinion, but based on the tone and language of the post (i.e. whether it breaks the rules). Otherwise, we'd be seen as biased, and we get enough of that accusation no matter what we do anyway (edit: or don't do, as the case may be).
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Old 2012-12-18, 18:44   Link #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
You really haven't been enforcing the rules very strictly, though.
Sometimes it's better to let things go than to kick the hornets nest. Too much enforcement can be just as bad as not enough, so we try to strike a balance. When dealing with a problem, it's best to ask how it is causing issues now, and what issues could it cause if left alone. Sometimes it's better to immediately deal with the problem, sometimes it's better to wait and see if it actually is a problem.

We're not perfect, obviously. Sometimes we react too fast, and misread what is going on. Sometimes we're too slow and are left with a huge mess to untangle. Such is the nature of being a volunteer force for a large forum, and just being human. And it's certainly not possible to be everywhere at once, following along with every discussion. We don't always agree either, although we tend to reach consensus because we're cool with compromise. But yeah, expect inconsistency. We're not a hive mind. You've been here (and around the internet) long enough to know that every moderator handles things differently. Better, worse? That's subjective, as always.
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Old 2012-12-18, 19:04   Link #278
Dr. Casey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff
Maybe people think I'm funny or something, I dunno
yeah you are lol

And while I don't much mind seeing the Reputation system disappear, I don't think there's much basis for the viewpoint some people hold about reputation crippling good or honest discussion. The amount of people so scared of receiving a negrep that they shy away from posting honestly is small, I'm sure, just as I doubt that the number of people that are so starved for pos reps that they'll tweak their opinion to something more 'acceptable' is more than a very small minority... this just seems to be one of those widely-held 'common truths' that isn't really true at all. 1 out of 100 people might've had their posting habits influenced by reputation, but otherwise I doubt anything much ever resulted from it aside from the occasional 'Thank you' for pos reps or bitchfits for negative ones.
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Old 2012-12-18, 19:13   Link #279
KholdStare
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
And while I don't much mind seeing the Reputation system disappear, I don't think there's much basis for the viewpoint some people hold about reputation crippling good or honest discussion. The amount of people so scared of receiving a negrep that they shy away from posting honestly is small, I'm sure, just as I doubt that the number of people that are so starved for pos reps that they'll tweak their opinion to something more 'acceptable' is more than a very small minority... this just seems to be one of those widely-held 'common truths' that isn't really true at all. 1 out of 100 people might've had their posting habits influenced by reputation, but otherwise I doubt anything much ever resulted from it aside from the occasional 'Thank you' for pos reps or bitchfits for negative ones.
This.

We're worrying about things that sounds like they are problems if it's applied to everyone, but it's not even close. The abolish reputation system could use lots of tweaks for sure, starting with rep power. But at the end of the day, it's something that's fun to have and all of the negatives are pretty much overblown in my view (as a poster). And I'd like to have a different, more fleshed out version of it in the future. There has been lots of good suggestions so far, and one of these days someone should organize them together for a proposal.

EDIT: Never mind.

Last edited by KholdStare; 2012-12-18 at 19:30.
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Old 2012-12-18, 19:15   Link #280
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
The amount of people so scared of receiving a negrep that they shy away from posting honestly is small, I'm sure, just as I doubt that the number of people that are so starved for pos reps that they'll tweak their opinion to something more 'acceptable' is more than a very small minority... this just seems to be one of those widely-held 'common truths' that isn't really true at all. 1 out of 100 people might've had their posting habits influenced by reputation, but otherwise I doubt anything much ever resulted from it aside from the occasional 'Thank you' for pos reps or bitchfits for negative ones.
What makes you so sure that this is not the "widely-held 'common truth' that isn't really true at all"? I saw posters influenced by rep nearly every day, and tracing the actual rep point flow made this more clear. There was a distinct pattern of people stopping posting in certain threads after getting negative rep whether their opinion was well-stated or not. There was also a distinct pattern of people who posted obnoxious opinions continuing to post in threads where their opinions got them more "rep rewards". And all of this was completely invisible to everyone else.

Now I'm not saying there won't still be these sorts of motivation games going on -- people will tend to post wherever they want for whatever reason that motivates them. But I don't think we need a system to specifically facilitate this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
This.

This.
And I even already explained it to you before. Please don't make posts only to say you agree. Or perhaps you wanted to send that via rep to encourage him?

(Edit: Of course, the post has since been edited...)
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