To Aru Majutsu no Index Light Novel Discussion (Archives)

[OverNOut]

Could it be possible that the reason the Invisible Thing was so much weaker when it faced Othinus than when it faced Fiamma was because only Touma's right hand was crushed during the confrontation with Othinus while Fiamma severed his entire right arm.

I think Imagine Breaker is like a plug sealing that Invisible Thing and when Fiamma severed Touma's right arm, the plug was fully opened but when Othinus crushed his right hand, the plug was only sightly opened.

[Atrum023]

I don't think so. As I understand it, Othinus' ability as a majin was to have a 50/50 chance of accomplishing whatever she set out to accomplish. With Touma's luck as bad as it was, the suppressing of the Invisible Thing was heavily skewed to Othinus' side.

Besides I doubt something as having his whole right arm cut off when compared to crushing to sever the right hand would make that much of a difference as Imagine Breaker still resides in his right hand - end result is still the same in either case.

[Javiersansano]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Its more like. It appears if the seal was taken off. Its like what Aleister said to Fiamma when he cuts of Touma's right hand. Fiamma saw a bit of the "truth" of this world and aside from Aleister. Fiamma probably the next closest to the truth. that's why Aleister goes out of his hiding place to take care of Fiamma because he finds out that bits of truth.

But then, is the reason Aleister hasn't gone to eliminate Othinus, as she must have seen that same truth (can't imagine she crushed the Invisible Thing without seeing it) is because of the excessive deviations his plan has suffered? Meaning that interferring would create more errors in his calculations?

I have a few questions...

According to Tsuchimikado, the leylines are one of the few examples of supernatural phenomenons that are not affected by imagine breaker, however Birdway claims in NT vol. 2 that the are affected. Therefore, who is right?

life energy is another example, but in the case someone is refining said energy to create MAGICAL energy inside their bodies, wouldn't imagine breaker destroy said magical energy? And by destroying said energy as it is still stored inside the magicians body, could that not harm said magician?

can touma affect Gemstones?

thanks to those who answer

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Javiersansano

According to Tsuchimikado, the leylines are one of the few examples of supernatural phenomenons that are not affected by imagine breaker, however Birdway claims in NT vol. 2 that the are affected. Therefore, who is right?

life energy is another example, but in the case someone is refining said energy to create MAGICAL energy inside their bodies, wouldn't imagine breaker destroy said magical energy? And by destroying said energy as it is still stored inside the magicians body, could that not harm said magician?

can touma affect Gemstones?

thanks to those who answer

“I’m not so sure your Imagine Breaker can negate leylines, Kami-yan.”

“Eh?” Kamijou looked shocked. “But leylines are…um…magical…right? So…”

“Yes, but…” Tsuchimikado interrupted him. “I just can’t figure out what your right hand really is. You say it can negate any magic or psychic power. But take an occult power like a human’s ‘life force’ for instance. You can’t kill someone just by giving them a handshake, right?”

“Well, no…”

“I get the feeling there are some odd ‘exceptions’. And leylines are most likely one of those exceptions. I highly doubt you can obliterate the entire Earth just by touching the ground.”

"It's not that simple," Birdway responded to Accelerator's question with a sardonic grin. "Imagine Breaker works exceedingly well when it is normalizing abnormal values, but it does not show much power when dealing with something that is uniform from the start. It only carries out destruction of things that have already had their harmony taken. ...For example, he does not destroy someone's soul when he touches them, and he does not destroy the planet when he touches it. Yet those things do indeed have supernatural power flowing through them."

From what I've gathered, Imagine Breaker does sort of works on those 'natural' things, but it seems it's effects are severely limited.... As they both said, he can't kill someone just by shaking hands or touching the ground.

[blackwhite67]

Well Tsuchimikado was only speculating when it came to ley lines. IB only negates the supernatural so it will only nullify magical energy and do no harm to the soul or magician. As long as IB is in contact with a person, he or she cannot exhibit any supernatural abilities, magician, esper, or gemstone.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by OverNOut

Could it be possible that the reason the Invisible Thing was so much weaker when it faced Othinus than when it faced Fiamma was because only Touma's right hand was crushed during the confrontation with Othinus while Fiamma severed his entire right arm.

I think Imagine Breaker is like a plug sealing that Invisible Thing and when Fiamma severed Touma's right arm, the plug was fully opened but when Othinus crushed his right hand, the plug was only sightly opened.

Who ever said the Thing was much weaker when facing Othinus?

[desrtsku]

Indeed, it wasn't any weaker, it's Othinus who's (50%) broken.

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Its more like. It appears if the seal was taken off. Its like what Aleister said to Fiamma when he cuts of Touma's right hand. Fiamma saw a bit of the "truth" of this world and aside from Aleister. Fiamma probably the next closest to the truth. that's why Aleister goes out of his hiding place to take care of Fiamma because he finds out that bits of truth.

You should stop reading Nasu stuff for a while. I know what I'm talking about, I've been there too.

[blackwhite67]

Well, the description of the scene with Othinnus was a noticeably less exaggerating than that of the scene with Fiamma.

[Chaos2Frozen]

There's a possibility that Othnius and the other members of Gremlin had been observing the entire showdown between Kamijou and Fiamma, after all how else would they know that Kamijou was the 'Hero of the World'? Crowley can't be the only one paying attention.

This might lead to a lack of 'shock value' when Othnius faced that thing herself- She was already mentally prepared.

[Phibrizzo]

I had my own theory that why othinus wait till Fiamma was defeat to take the spot light and its basically a rock paper game.

Hoy right >> Imperfect Othinus >> Imagen breaker >> Holy right

Basically

Luck >> Probability >> Bad Luck >> Luck

If Ken Akamatsu can flesh over 75 characters I am sure Kamichi.exe can doit.

[OverNOut]

Something invisible blew out from the crushed remnants of Kamijou Touma’s right wrist. With a roar, it shot toward Othinus without taking any real form.

However…

“…Is that all?”

Othinus’s bloody hand grabbed something.

The one-eyed witch tilted her head to the side in confusion.

“It seems you produced decent results during the final stages of World War 3, but is this all I find when I open the lid?”

She carelessly crushed it.

The invisible power writhed and seemed to try to flee from Othinus. But it was too late. She poured more strength into her bloody fingers and this time the invisible power was torn apart and disappeared into thin air.

That shows she does know about the Invisible Thing and its power. It also seems like she expected it to be more powerful.

What were the decent result. If I recalled correctly that Invisible Thing didn't do anything except reveal itself and tried to attack Fiamma but was held back by Touma.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

Indeed, it wasn't any weaker, it's Othinus who's (50%) broken.

You should stop reading Nasu stuff for a while. I know what I'm talking about, I've been there too.

-_- I've been busy with campione rather than nasu so I think you mean that my way of talking is the same as seeking akasha but its not its the Truth of what Aleister mean. That's what I'm pointing at.

Fiamma was in the way. Aleister had come to utterly destroy even the slightest chance of his own plan being calculated out from the incomplete incident Fiamma had caused. As such, Fiamma would not even be allowed to be taken into custody by a magical organization. At that time, Fiamma came as close to the truth of the world as he ever had.
“I see.” He only had one arm, but Fiamma of the Right slowly shook his head. “…But that no longer matters.”

The thing being sealed by imagine breaker is part of the truth of the world. (reminds me of hidden Riki)

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

-_- I've been busy with campione rather than nasu so I think you mean that my way of talking is the same as seeking akasha but its not its the Truth of what Aleister mean. That's what I'm pointing at.

My apologies, it seems like I still have a Nasu polluted mind on my own, and I can't help but seeing it in everything I read.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

My apologies, it seems like I still have a Nasu polluted mind on my own, and I can't help but seeing it in everything I read.

tried to read other works and if I will speak nasu then instead of reaching the truth which what Aleister hinted then I will just said "the Akasha" or "the roots". Roots is the term for nasu of truth of the world or the key to origins from the past and future etc. etc. etc.

gods be darn. They will fall prey in front of a campione!!!! campione is a good work too, if only IF!!! the darn blatant french/adult kiss wasn't added just to win -_- I feel stupid when I' reading that part and....well generic harem antics ;_;

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by blackwhite67

Well, the description of the scene with Othinnus was a noticeably less exaggerating than that of the scene with Fiamma.

Because against the far stronger Othinus? Sure it wouldn't look as impressive against Fiamma, completed Holy Right or not.

And well on the subject of Majin hax vs Holy Right hax...it's just a contest of whose hax overrides whom. From what is shown so far, it favors Othinus

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Because against the far stronger Othinus? Sure it wouldn't look as impressive against Fiamma, completed Holy Right or not.

And well on the subject of Majin hax vs Holy Right hax...it's just a contest of whose hax overrides whom. From what is shown so far, it favors Othinus

For something that is 'far stronger', it certainly has quite a weakness eh?

50% vs 100% is no competition.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

For something that is 'far stronger', it certainly has quite a weakness eh?

50% vs 100% is no competition.

But the 50% that is a success is absolute. Holy Right does not have that extent apparently.

HR can only win if Othinus does not get the 50%. If she does, well....it's likely that she'll override HR.....a completed HR.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

But the 50% that is a success is absolute. Holy Right does not have that extent apparently

On the other hand, that 50% that is a failure is also irrefutable.

There is nothing wrong with the Holy Right, Fiamma just didn't have the knowledge of the Maijin to use it properly (hence why he needed Index). But even in it's half-assed stated he's still continuously, and reliably pushing the I.W.I.N button.

It's nice to have a power that you can count on.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

HR can only win if Othinus does not get the 50%. If she does, well....it's likely that she'll override HR.....a completed HR.

Which doesn't seem all that favoring one side now does it?

[Cosmic Eagle]

I'm saying in the context of facing Othinius. Then, he's not constantly pushing the I WIN button...he's only as good as doing so half the time too.


As for HR itself...well, Osirian HR completed cannot beat the thing inside Touma.


Horus is unknown at this point

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

I'm saying in the context of facing Othinius. Then, he's not constantly pushing the I WIN button...he's only as good as doing so half the time too.

So basically they're even.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

As for HR itself...well, Osirian HR completed cannot beat the thing inside Touma.

Horus is unknown at this point

Again there's nothing wrong with Holy Right itself.