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Old 2012-12-26, 21:45   Link #201
judasmartel
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Originally Posted by Aphrah View Post
But they did? We don't see him go from lv1 to lv75 overnight or anything like that. And we've been shown him killing monsters. Grinding isn't about killing low level monsters that net little exp. It can also be killing very few powerful monsters for more exp. One example of Kirito "grinding" was his fight vs. the Lizardman.
But thing is, unless you're highly skilled and experienced at VR MMO's like Kirito is, there's no way an average gamer in real life can pull it off. And it kinda smells third-party cheating to me, but let's not talk about that.

So yeah, it is very possible that Kirito has played a lot of MMO's prior to SAO.

But my point still stands. They should have shown him working his way up to become a high level player in SAO, and one very powerful monster is not enough.
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Old 2012-12-26, 21:56   Link #202
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
But thing is, unless you're highly skilled and experienced at VR MMO's, there's no way you're going to pull it off.

So yeah, it is very possible that Kirito has played a lot of MMO's prior to SAO.
Wasn't it said that Kirito has quite a bit of MMO experience? I don't recall if it was said in the anime, but I'm almost positive that it was said in the light novels. Hell, he was even in the beta for SAO, where he was supposedly one of the best.

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But my point still stands. They should have shown him working his way up to become a high level player in SAO, and one very powerful monster is not enough.
One isn't enough, hm? Then how about Nicholas the Renegade? Gleameyes? Kobold Chief and his minions? Bosses tend to net more exp than normal monsters do.
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Old 2012-12-26, 21:59   Link #203
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Grinding is well.

Incredibly boring.

I understand why some people feel like they should've been able to see his strength growth, but SAO has never really been about that, and personally it didn't bother me, since I personally have been through that leveling treadmill more than enough times. I know exactly what Kirito went through, because I've done it myself, so I didn't really need to see it.
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Old 2012-12-26, 22:03   Link #204
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I know exactly what Kirito went through, because I've done it myself, so I didn't really need to see it.
Having to physically do it, even if just mentally (...that sounds really weird, but you get the idea), is very different from just having to have the mental concentration to sit in a chair and click buttons. Moreso when your life is on the line. Actually grinding to level (as opposed to raising skills) wouldn't be boring at all.
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Old 2012-12-26, 22:08   Link #205
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Perhaps I should reiterate. Grinding is incredibly boring to watch.
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Old 2012-12-26, 22:11   Link #206
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Back when I first started watching (back when it was... shit, I dunno, episode 7, I think?) I was worried about the speed of things judging by the time-skips level jumps (from whatever he was in episode 2, to level 40-something in episode 3, to level 70-something in episode 4), but back then I figured this was a one-cour show of 12 to 13 episodes. After the clarification that it wasn't the case I was fine with the levels, because really the story wasn't about the game itself, so the level aspect of the game wasn't terribly important, just the time and the motivations of Kirito.
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Old 2012-12-26, 23:57   Link #207
judasmartel
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Well, the training montage doesn't have to be 1 episode long. Just long enough to convince people that Kirito can actually win fights without cheating or help from the system.

I'm not really sure what to make of Kirito keeping his level in a new game, but he's definitely a beta tester. Think it's nothing new in the MMO industry.

EDIT: Oh, okay, I admit, I can't appreciate Kirito because I usually suck at MMO's (probably because I don't use cookie-cutter builds) and I'm too broke to actually raise a strong character.
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Old 2012-12-27, 00:37   Link #208
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
Well, the training montage doesn't have to be 1 episode long. Just long enough to convince people that Kirito can actually win fights without cheating or help from the system.

I'm not really sure what to make of Kirito keeping his level in a new game, but he's definitely a beta tester. Think it's nothing new in the MMO industry.

EDIT: Oh, okay, I admit, I can't appreciate Kirito because I usually suck at MMO's (probably because I don't use cookie-cutter builds) and I'm too broke to actually raise a strong character.
For the most part, Kirito can't win a lot of fights that way, or at least doesn't. First half of the SAO arc, he vastly overlevels pretty much everything he fights. He beats Gleam Eyes with his dual wielding skill, which was granted to him by Kayaba and is probably pretty overpowered. He gets his ass beat by Heathcliff twice. In ALO, he has haxxed stats, and while is an exceptional swordsman due to two years spent in a VRMMO, none of it matters for anything when facing against a system admin, and he needs outside help from Kayaba again in order to save Asuna and beat Sugou.

He's a powerless kid in real life, and every thing he does in game looks a lot more impressive than it actually is. His strength is mostly an illusion - fitting for a spriggan, I guess.
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Old 2012-12-27, 00:59   Link #209
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See? That's why I prefer Kosuke Ueki better than Kirito! Guy earned all his victories even with the weakest power possible.
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Old 2012-12-27, 01:58   Link #210
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... I take it you've never played any MMOs or RPGs. Trust me, Kirito earned all of his skills.

Out of the 543,881 Mass Effect 3 players in the world, I'm currently ranked 18,678th (at time of posting, which is the top four percent of players) and no. 68 out of the 1200 players in Malaysia. I can solo Bronze and Silver, and regularly run Gold, with the occasional Platinum. In public pickup games, I'm usually the top scorer by a ridiculously high margin - even with Level 1 characters.

In short, I'm a 3rd Person Shooter (with RPG elements) equivalent to Kirito and the Clearing Group. And it took me the better part of 8 months, and over 160 hours of gameplay.

*shrug* But yeah, guess I didn't earn them skills. And neither did Kirito.

You play something long enough, you will be very good at it. The fact that this little detail can escape the notice of viewers says much about the understanding and comprehension abilities of today's audience.
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Old 2012-12-27, 02:25   Link #211
judasmartel
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I used to play MMORPG's, but then real life things such as college happened, I still suck at MMORPG's anyway, and it ruined my life, so I stopped.

It's hard when you did everything you could based on the very little that you know about the game, you have grinded for way too long, and you could only raise your main character to mid-level with so-so gears. And yet someone who has a relatively balanced life has over 9000 max-level characters in over 100 games.

Add in my absolute refusal to follow cookie-cutter builds that 90% of top players use and I just made a perfect recipe for disaster and frustration. My chars are okay in PvE, but I absolutely have no chance at winning PvP, and the action MMORPG environment (Dragon Nest was my latest MMORPG) is hostile towards newbies like me, so I really never learned how to do it against player-controlled opponents, and I'm still having difficulties defeating AI controlled opponents which are now considered too easy for the top-level players.

And you know, it's frustrating. I really wished I could have a successful real life career and still have time to be one of the top MMO gamers in our country. But no, whatever I do, no matter how many hours I grind a day, I can't do it without shelling good cash, which I really don't have. So I said, screw this, I have to get a life. If someone would recommend an MMO to me, please give me something that actually needs zero cash to become great at it.

So yeah, I haven't played enough MMO's to appreciate Kirito.

Last edited by judasmartel; 2012-12-27 at 02:36.
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Old 2012-12-27, 02:39   Link #212
Wild Goose
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In all fairness, Kirito has an unfair advantage in that he's been essentially playing nonstop for about 2 years. I'd be more worried if he wasn't good after playing so long.

On the other hand, I only play an average of 5 hours a week *shrug*.
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Old 2012-12-27, 02:42   Link #213
judasmartel
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See what I'm talking about? I can't play that long everyday. Not with the measly cash I get. I'm too broke, so I said, screw MMO's, time to get a life.

Maybe one day, if I'm rich enough to actually fund a competitive character, I'll come back playing MMO's. I love MMORPG's, but it's driving me insane.

FPS? My favorite tactic is sniping, something that could get me called a "camping fag" which I don't like. And yet I still get my ass kicked in Counter-Strike.

EDIT: I also suck at PR, so I can't get myself recruited to the good, if not top, guilds.

@topic I could also have appreciated him more if he wasn't so goddamned overhyped.
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Old 2012-12-27, 02:50   Link #214
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That's called life Judasmartel. You sound like you're old enough to understand that, but still resist reality.

10 years ago when I blew out my leg playing football and couldn't work or do much of anything for half a year, I dove into Counter Strike. Played it a minimum of 8 hours a day while my body healed up. After several months of playing on some Cal servers, I had some of their server admins asking if I wanted to assist them in matches when they were short a player.

I've been a gamer since about 1985, starting on a Commodore 64... Of course now, my reflexes are slowing down, eye sight isn't quite what it use to be, and my multi-tasking is falling off.

Work, relationships, and an additional hobby with fast cars, have also contributed to my not staying ontop of my gaming abilities these last 5 years. Now when I jump onto a Counter Strike, Halo, COD server, it takes awhile for me to knock some off the rust off, and even hope to break even after a couple of hours...

Currently playing Star Wars: The Old Republic, and DayZ to pass my free time.
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Old 2012-12-27, 02:52   Link #215
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Kirito

~The black swords man, a game addict and a genius in non academic related stuffs. GAme is his world and his life. For two years, he learn to roam the death game first with his comrades later on by himself and sworn to finish the game for the sake of those who given their lives and also to those who wish to return home.

He found love and had another reason to beat the game. He did won it but at a great price. The world of SAO didn't end as long as he doens't have Asuna beside him in the real world.

He seek Asuna again with the help of a new found companion who also longs for her impossible love, together they sought her in the ALO on the World Tree. But after revelations and sorrows he found her at last... the missing part of himself... his Asuna... his love... his world...
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Old 2012-12-27, 09:16   Link #216
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
It's hard when you did everything you could based on the very little that you know about the game
Quote:
Add in my absolute refusal to follow cookie-cutter builds that 90% of top players use
Quote:
And you know, it's frustrating.
Clearly you didn't do everything you could. The best builds are cookie-cutter for a reason. They're tried and true to be the best for most scenarios, and one should only deviate from those builds after extensive testing and number crunching. People with far more time, experience, and knowledge about the inner workings of the game have theorizes and practiced the builds to find the optimum efficiency from what's available.

Sorry, but refusing to use them just because others do is MMO Hipster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
See what I'm talking about? I can't play that long everyday. Not with the measly cash I get. I'm too broke, so I said, screw MMO's, time to get a life.
You also aren't literally trapped in the game. What else are you going to do?
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Old 2012-12-28, 00:23   Link #217
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I should note that the reason I play ME3 multiplayer is because unless you are totally screwing up, every single class and build is viable, albeit with varying degrees of effectiveness.

Sniper rifles are stupidly effective, especially the starting Mantis rifle; whatever it can't OHKO in a torso hit, it can OHKO with a headshot. The fact that ME3MP is essentially Horde mode or Firefight and is PVE is probably why I don't mind so much...

There are no useless builds, there are only useless players.
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Old 2012-12-28, 00:42   Link #218
judasmartel
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Clearly you didn't do everything you could. The best builds are cookie-cutter for a reason. They're tried and true to be the best for most scenarios, and one should only deviate from those builds after extensive testing and number crunching. People with far more time, experience, and knowledge about the inner workings of the game have theorizes and practiced the builds to find the optimum efficiency from what's available.

Sorry, but refusing to use them just because others do is MMO Hipster.

You also aren't literally trapped in the game. What else are you going to do?
My mentality at the time was that "cookie-cutters are overrated". Of course it's not true, but I was so stubborn about this for a while.

My gripe with cookie-cutters is "What if I wanted to do things differently? What if I chose to be a Tanker or Mezzer when everyone else is a DPSer?"

So, yeah, I'm a MMO Hipster, alright. But that was a thing in the past.

Nowadays, MMO builds are built-in, you only have to choose the one that suits your playing style. And if you deviate from any of those, the game will punish you by making your character suck balls. Clearly, I don't want that.

And yes, I'm not literally trapped in every game I have played. Grinding is boring, and why grind anyway if you could just Cash Shop your way to MMO greatness? My PR sucks, so I don't have much friends and guildmates online, so I have no choice but to surf the Internet whenever I'm bored.

So yeah, I totally suck at MMOs.
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Old 2012-12-29, 04:25   Link #219
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If you find grinding boring, isn't watching another person grind even worse?

Imagine watching Kirito killing a few thousand lizardman to level up once or a few times.
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Old 2012-12-29, 12:35   Link #220
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Because Kirito is a gary stu. And Gary stu doesn't need any annoying, incredibly long development a-la never ending shounen series as long as he's the strongest, loved by the heroines, kick any bad guy's asses and able to bring the story with his sheer awesomeness.

Other than that, i can't think of anything
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