AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-12-29, 00:39   Link #1061
Kamui04
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Like Demon and Yu already said. There isn't gonna be a next season. Your only hope of new material is fanfiction or doujinshis. The manga ended earlier this year. Last page was Koko's hand pressing her cell's key. The anime was very faithful to the manga and that's how it ended, period.

To continue such a faithful series with original material would be pointless. I don't doubt Kuroda Yousuke's ability as a scriptwriter. Some of my favorite animes original or adapted have been written by him. But making another season would be like Peter Jackson coming up with an original script for Lord of the Rings Movie IV -The Return of Frodo-. Or Warner coming up with Harry Potter movie VIII -The adventures of Albus Severus Potter-.

Last edited by Kamui04; 2012-12-29 at 00:53.
Kamui04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-12-29, 09:54   Link #1062
Guardian Enzo
Seishu's Ace
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kagurazaka, Tokyo
As I’ve puzzled over this ending and tried to imagine how I would have ended the series if it’d been my choice, I’ve come to realize that it would be impossible to deliver a conventionally satisfying ending without a fundamental shift in approach. Takahashi makes no compromises right up to the end, and in effect I think the way the show ends is a product of a trap that was inherent in his approach to the story.

I can say that for my money, the star of the final episode is one that you wouldn’t necessarily expect, and that’s Kasper. I think he not only delivered many of the best moments in the episode, but he effectively undercut the “Koko End” because it’s his words that stay with me more than anything Koko did. “If I can’t sell aerial weapons, I’ll sell naval weapons. If I can’t sell battleships, I’ll sell tanks. I’ll sell guns. I’ll sell swords. I’ll sell hatchets. If you seal away iron, I’ll sell cudgels. Such is the nature of an arms dealer.” It can hardly be denied that the moment that Koko looked most unhappy in this final episode is when Kasper said “I’m sure Floyd will be pleased.” In effect, Kasper denied Koko the joy of believing her new world would be what she imagined, and he unmasked the truth of her motivations, all with a single short speech.

Jonah searched for answers for two years. And during those two years, the world behaved exactly as Koko predicted it would. It made the mirage that Koko’s plan represents seem no less crazy than standing by and watching the world slowly bleed to death (especially given the fact that she alone among all the characters proved herself capable of truly revolutionary thought), but if there’s anything hopeful in what’s frankly rather a depressing ending, it’s Jonah’s words when he comes back to Koko. “I think both you and the world are crazy. But I’ll stick with you, Koko.” Jonah never accepts the right of what Koko is doing – for him, this is purely a personal decision. The world makes no sense, and the only thing he knows is that Koko is the person he loves (in what sense, it’s left to interpretation). But it’s still a tragic ending, because Jonah’s loss of innocence amounts to an admission that there are no good answers, only compromises we make to try and keep ourselves sane.

I’m sure that never seeing what the future holds after Koko pushes that button is going to prove most dissatisfying for a chunk of the audience as well, and I can’t say that I blame them. When I speak of the trap Takahashi-san set for himself though, this is a part of it. I don’t see any way he could have showed us what happened afterwards, because the overriding message of the story is more powerful if it ends where it did. I think in any event he told us exactly what’s going to happen, using Kasper’s words – and I don’t think it would have been very pleasurable to see that play out. The fact is that Koko revealed herself in the end to be a megalomaniac of the first order, albeit an amazingly charismatic and clever one (waiting until her quantum computer is small enough to be launched into orbit before clearing the skies is nothing short of brilliant, though I still wouldn’t call her plan foolproof). Like Chrollo Lucilfer in H x H (as I’ve said, in some ways Jormungand is a kind of seinen version) her true genius was in seeing the strengths of those around her, trusting them to do their jobs, and making them willing to die for the cause. But I wouldn’t want to put the fate of the world (or my own) in Chrollo’s hands, and Koko is no different – and the deaths of those 700,000 (or however many it ends up being) that are the down payment on Jormungand’s execution will weigh heavily on her as Kasper’s words play in her head. It’s really rather an ugly future we’re presented with, and kind of a mercy that we don’t have to see it.

Last edited by Guardian Enzo; 2012-12-29 at 19:30.
Guardian Enzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-12-29, 19:25   Link #1063
Yu Ominae
ARCAM Spriggan agent
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Coquitlam, BC, Canada/Quezon City, Philippines
Send a message via Yahoo to Yu Ominae
One potential answer I got from a forum is that the ending would make us think about how we can do our part to ensure peace.

I kina like that answer in a way.

Also doing a fanfic on the series. I'd be glad to share the link since its buried around here in a lot to pages.
__________________

Even if we were at odds with each other, I still thank you for training me, Instructor Bowman - Yu Ominae, reflecting on Bowman's death after killing him in Phantom Island
Yu Ominae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-12-30, 00:30   Link #1064
ScudFace
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Kasper really hit the nail on the head with his speech to koko. The fundamental reason for her to create a new world order isn't to bring about world peace; its a big F$#@ you to daddy for abandonment and/or pushing her into the world of arms dealing. Seeing how dark her face turned when kasper stated their father would be happy with jormungand activated is proof positive. Having the world at her mercy simply because of daddy issues...koko is loco afterall.
ScudFace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-12-30, 00:59   Link #1065
creb
Hiding Under Your Bed
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
GE, good analysis. And, yes, Scudface, I do think it's all ultimately stemming from father issues as one mega-hissyfit as only someone with her resources could throw. Even though I kept thinking Floyd would show up, it's actually pretty nice he didn't, as his very presence looms behind her throughout the series.

Of the two children, Kasper is the one who grew up and accepted the world. Koko is the one who didn't, and thinks throwing blocks around and ripping the hair off her barbies is going to magically change it.

After giving myself some time, I guess I find the ending acceptable after all.
creb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-12-30, 02:09   Link #1066
Soconfused
Old God Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: you....don't wanna know
Age: 28
Send a message via AIM to Soconfused
Sad that such an interesting series was ruined by Koko and friends, IMO. Koko and her group being in god mode for the entire series was incredibly boring. And whenever anyone with half a brain would actually appear to be able to challenge her, they were disposed of almost immediately. Koko towards the end became almost insufferable to me, to the point where I skipped scene with her rambling on about nothing. (I did read the manga)

I'm just not a fan of untouchable characters. Makes for a boring story.
__________________
What exactly is the point of becoming powerful if one cannot indulge the hedonistic opportunities that come with it?
Soconfused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-12-30, 04:30   Link #1067
Guardian Enzo
Seishu's Ace
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kagurazaka, Tokyo
She's not really untouchable. Kasper gutted her like a fish.
Guardian Enzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-12-30, 09:20   Link #1068
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I can say that for my money, the star of the final episode is one that you wouldn’t necessarily expect, and that’s Kasper. I think he not only delivered many of the best moments in the episode, but he effectively undercut the “Koko End” because it’s his words that stay with me more than anything Koko did. “If I can’t sell aerial weapons, I’ll sell naval weapons. If I can’t sell battleships, I’ll sell tanks. I’ll sell guns. I’ll sell swords. I’ll sell hatchets. If you seal away iron, I’ll sell cudgels. Such is the nature of an arms dealer.” It can hardly be denied that the moment that Koko looked most unhappy in this final episode is when Kasper said “I’m sure Floyd will be pleased.” In effect, Kasper denied Koko the joy of believing her new world would be what she imagined, and he unmasked the truth of her motivations, all with a single short speech.
Indeed, Kasper completely stole the episode, I would even go as far as to say he saved it (most of it was incredibly disappointing). He easily managed to see through Koko and proceeded to crush her. I loved the line you quoted- it perfectly conveys how naive Koko's plan is. No matter what she does, humans will always find ways to kill each other, and there will always be people like Kasper to help them do so. Jormungand will never bring about world peace, and it will not destroy HCLI and her father either. She will never "win".

A shame we never got to meet Koko's father. I would have liked to know what kind of man he is.
__________________
Mikan & Yami
Kanon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-01, 16:48   Link #1069
-Sho-
~Omedetô~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere between heaven and hell !
Damn i wanted to see more about this new world & many mores...
How can it end like that....
Well , i'll still add it on my favorite anime list.
aah moo it irritates me...
-Sho- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-02, 18:22   Link #1070
kitten320
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 24
Did not like the ending...

a) Kasper nailed Koko so her plan is useless since war will never end. She basically murdered 700 000 people for nothing.
b) A very cliched reunion...
c) I expected to see at least one plane crashing.

In all honesty a pefect ending would with Jonah going though desert and a random airplane/helicopter crashes behind him.

If creators wanted reunion then they could have the gang waiting for him at the end, maybe in a shadow. Koko reaching out "Join me..." and then possibly Jonah reaching out... THE END!


We would have exactly same conclusion but far more appealing which also would fit with series theme better. Dramatic, exciting and with a BANG!
__________________
kitten320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-02, 20:57   Link #1071
ScudFace
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
kitten, your scenario does not work because koko was reluctant to activate jormungand without jonah's acceptance beforehand.
I don't understand the obsession with big bang endings. This show was never an action/thriller to begin with so why would you expect a "shift in approach" (quoted from GE) at the end?
ScudFace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-03, 21:25   Link #1072
peachfuzz
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: brookyln
the show need an 3rd season with an new storyline with KOKO Unleashing the Missiles on Everybody BUT the IT Would be Just Tacky & Stale knowing that it Manga knows what Happens so I'm pretty torn on Having the series extending to #3
peachfuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-04, 14:38   Link #1073
kitten320
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 24
This show was all about big bangs, every single episode had action even if some of that was ridiculous. Calm, happy ending like that doesn't really work in comparison to everything we had till now.

And even though everyone always liked Jonah, that cheesy ending with reunion where everyone had something to say was just... meh. I lost count on how many I saw of those.

What I suggested is not original but at least it has some kind of impact while here I just wanted to feceplam whole time.

It was the cheesiest of the cheesiest endings.
__________________
kitten320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-07, 15:15   Link #1074
Yu Ominae
ARCAM Spriggan agent
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Coquitlam, BC, Canada/Quezon City, Philippines
Send a message via Yahoo to Yu Ominae
I've listened to the PO OST and I recommend this so far:

__________________

Even if we were at odds with each other, I still thank you for training me, Instructor Bowman - Yu Ominae, reflecting on Bowman's death after killing him in Phantom Island
Yu Ominae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-08, 06:47   Link #1075
Dop
We can't stop here...
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
I liked the ending. I think really that was the best possible way to end it.

Rather than going for either the "unlikely utopia" ending where Jormungand works as advertised and brings a new era of world peace, or going for the "downer" ending and killing off most of the main characters, what the author has done is given you two opposing viewpoints and said "discuss."

There's the Kasper view, that there will always be war even if it has to be fought with cudgels, or Koko's view that perhaps mankind can be shamed into giving up war.

The open ending did surprise me, yes, but I think it worked superbly.
(and cyncially speaking does leave it open for a sequel at a later date!)
Dop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-11, 23:30   Link #1076
Roger Rambo
Sensei, aishite imasu
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
That's a...pretty fanciful future history projection. Only two years to go to that huh?


Frankly, things going so over the top shit bad just seems to underscore the absurdity of Yoko's plan. Seriously Yoko. People who are fighting goddamned wars over water scarcity aren't gonna stop fighting just because you're "embarrassing" them. Whoever those terrorists were who blew up the English parliament were probably aren't gonna stop because we can't fly around in 747's. Koko couldn't do anything but bitch face when Kasper rubbed it in that humans would keep fighting even if it meant meant resorting to cudgels. As Guardian Enzo said, this really sounds more like some kinda demented "take that!" at daddy than some serious measure at world peace.

If anything, it kinda weird's me out that MORE people don't call Yoko out on just how bat shit insane her plan is. Frankly that seems a bit too convenient. I wouldn't have reckoned most of her crew to be quite sociopathic enough to be totally kosher with Yoko murdering hundreds of thousands of people on what amounts to a delusional whim and fancy.


Soconfused I think is right about koko in a sense having become an untouchable character. There was never any serious opposition to her plan, and a rather surprising number of people just didn't seem to care about what she was planning to do. It felt kinda weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
And Koko is sooo going to get disappointed. But if she will change her way of thinking later, she has a great tool in her disposal capable of, to a fair extent, regulating the power projection of the great powers, with which she can do a lot of wonders if she knows how to play it right. I now wish I'm in her band.
Somehow I doubt that someone who'd murder 700,000+ people over the delusional belief that it'd stop world conflict is going to be a very beneficial overlord. And the utility of the Jormungand to manipulate people goes down dramatically when pretty much everyone realizes that integrated digital communications aren't safe.
Roger Rambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-12, 05:41   Link #1077
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Somehow I doubt that someone who'd murder 700,000+ people over the delusional belief that it'd stop world conflict is going to be a very beneficial overlord. And the utility of the Jormungand to manipulate people goes down dramatically when pretty much everyone realizes that integrated digital communications aren't safe.
Exactly why I wish I was in her group.
__________________
Ridwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-12, 08:18   Link #1078
Roger Rambo
Sensei, aishite imasu
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
Exactly why I wish I was in her group.
So you could do what?

If Koko's willing to flippantly murder 700,000 people at the push of a button, you don't think she'd be willing to have someone in her group who seriously opposed her plans executed? I think Jonah is the only exception for someone she'd love unconditionally enough not to do that to.



Crazy ass CIA assassin chick is probably the only one who had a reasonable idea about how Koko should have been dealt with honestly.


edit: What's even goofier? Koko's big plan doesn't even bar humans from flying in the sky at all...how exactly does the Quantum computer foul up aircraft that don't rely on GPS navigation or global integrated comms? I'm not sure how you *hack* an aircraft's flight system if the flight system doesn't have any data links outside the aircraft. Modern aircraft really only need to be modified for them to work.

It doesn't even do anything to smart weapons. Wanna know how a laser guided bomb or missile works? The plane or a ground team paints a laser on a target, and the optical sensors on a missile/bomb see the laser point, and home in on it...it's a closed system, that no amount of fancy ass hacking can mess with.

It's just weird for a show that initially seemed relatively grounded in reality to go so wacko like that. If Koko's computer could really work as advertised, they might as well have just called it a magical device that could mind control people remotely, and materialize magical animals out of thin air.

Last edited by Roger Rambo; 2013-01-12 at 10:29.
Roger Rambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-14, 12:48   Link #1079
TheEroKing
On a Break
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: India
Age: 28
Send a message via Skype™ to TheEroKing
__________________
TheEroKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 18:33   Link #1080
Battler-kun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Finished watching, but i'd rather stay with Black Lagoon, especially since the 2 years hiatus is ending now.

It was the best for the author to end it like this as anything else wouldn't be satisfying but annoying.

I guess the plan to build a Quantum computer to shut down the air wasn't the right direction to go for the author or has he planned it like that right from the start?

She could have used the QCPU to find a way to manipulate the human DNA to make them not kill each other off by driving down their emotions.
Would have been a longer process, but surely more feasible than just shutting down the sky and control every digital links.

Maybe she will do that too, no i think she definitely would do it to change human nature.
Battler-kun is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, gunfights, seinen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.