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Old 2012-12-29, 01:28   Link #25481
SaintessHeart
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Won't it be easier to send those kids for resocialisation.
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Old 2012-12-29, 01:58   Link #25482
TinyRedLeaf
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
If you asked for me after reading this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20860569
The extent of her injuries was not widely reported, possibly to spare the family and the public from the lurid details.

Rape victim's condition worsens
Quote:
...Dr Mahesh Chandra Misra, professor and head of the department of surgical disciplines at the All India Institute of Medical Sciences, who was part of the team caring for the patient in New Delhi, described her initial injuries as the worst he had seen.

The patient was "practically dead" when she was brought in to Safdarjung Hospital on the morning of Dec 17, and had to be resuscitated, he said.

Then, the doctors' immediate focus was on damage control, he said, and her small and large intestines were removed because they were gangrenous. "Her intestines were hanging out" when she arrived, Dr Misra said, adding that her injuries indicated that an iron rod had been used to attack her...
It is horrifying beyond imagination, that people could do something like that to another human being.

In other news:

China orders children to visit elderly parents
Quote:
Beijing (Dec 28, Fri): China has passed a law requiring adult children to visit their elderly parents regularly or risk being sued.

The law does not specify how frequently such visits should occur, but warns that neglect could risk court action.

Reports suggest a growing number of elderly Chinese have been abandoned or neglected by their offspring. Chinese state media reported earlier this month that a woman in her nineties had been forced by her son to live in a pigsty for two years.

The rapid pace of development in China has damaged the traditional extended family in China. An eighth of the population of China is over the age of 60, and more than half of them live alone.

BBC
Japan and Russia to restart peace talks
Quote:
Tokyo (Dec 28, Fri): Japan's new Prime Minister Shinzo Abe agreed with Russian President Vladimir Putin today to restart talks on a peace treaty hampered since World War II by a territorial row, an official said.

In a 20-minute telephone conversation, Mr Abe, who was formally elected to his second stint as Japan's premier on Wednesday, also agreed to visit Russia at an "appropriate" date next year, the Japanese official said.

In the conversation, Mr Abe told Mr Putin that their two countries should work hard to find a "mutually acceptable solution" to their island row, the official said.

Russia and Japan have long been at odds over the southern Kuril islands, which Soviet forces seized in the last days of World War II, driving away Japanese inhabitants. Tokyo refers to them as its "Northern Territories".

The dispute has prevented the two countries from signing a postwar peace treaty.

Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev provoked fury in Japan when he visited the islands earlier this year, adding to a hugely controversial visit he made while serving as president in November 2010.

AFP
Myanmar to allow private daily newspapers again
Quote:
Yangon (Dec 28, Fri): Myanmar will allow private daily newspapers from April next year, the government announced today, a big leap forward for a country that had barely any press freedom under its decades of military dictatorship.

Before the military seized power in a 1962 coup, there were more than a dozen local private dailies in multiple languages. At present, only state-controlled newspapers, mostly considered dull, propaganda-filled mouthpieces of the government, are allowed to publish on a daily basis.

The decision comes as part of an astonishing relaxation of laws governing the media in Myanmar, among the most dramatic reforms introduced by Mr Thein Sein's quasi-civilian government since it came to power 19 months ago.

"We do welcome this news," said Mr Wai Phyo, chief editor of the Weekly Eleven journal, one of four publications owned by the Eleven Media Group. "We've been waiting for it for some time."

Despite the changes, a degree of self-censorship is expected to remain as long as Orwellian laws like the Electronic Transaction Law exist, which threatens jail terms of 15 years for revealing "state secrets". That term has been applied very loosely and at one point, it included any reference by journalists to the amount of money in circulation in Myanmar.

REUTERS

And, lastly, a thought-provoking opinion piece:

In a crisis, humanists seem absent
Quote:
By Samuel Friedman
Dec 28

Since the Newtown massacre on Dec 14, the tableau of grief and mourning has provided a vivid lesson in the religious variety of America. An interfaith service featuring President Obama, held two days after Adam Lanza killed 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut, included clergy members from Bahai, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim and both mainline and evangelical Protestant congregations.

This illustration of religious belief in action, of faith expressed in extremis, an example at once so heartrending and so affirming, has left behind one prickly question: Where were the humanists? At a time when the percentage of Americans without religious affiliation is growing rapidly, why did the "nones", as they are colloquially known, seem so absent?

To raise these queries is not to play gotcha, or to be judgmental in a dire time. In fact, some leaders within the humanist movement — an umbrella term for those who call themselves atheists, agnostics, secularists and freethinkers, among other terms — are ruefully and self-critically saying the same thing themselves.

"It is a failure of community, and that's where the answer for the future has to lie," said Mr Greg Epstein, 35, the humanist chaplain at Harvard and author of the book Good Without God. “What religion has to offer to people at moments like this — more than theology, more than divine presence — is community. And we need to provide an alternative form of community if we're going to matter for the increasing number of people who say they are not believers."

THE NEW YORK TIMES
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Old 2012-12-29, 02:07   Link #25483
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
It is horrifying beyond imagination, that people could do something like that to another human being.
It is a major social problem in populous areas of the world, either be it to vent their frustrations and/or simply following the idea of "survival of the fittest".

India suffers from alot of developemental problems probably due to the diversity of tribes and culture throughout the entire country. Until there is a leader able to reach out to all of them and come to a consensus, the country will have problems building itself into a safer and more equal place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
And, lastly, a thought-provoking opinion piece:

In a crisis, humanists seem absent
Well, if we were to put it from a more brutal perspective, the religious leaders are only there to "show face" and bolster their own image.

The humanists see the need not to for such an act, hence their absence.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-12-29, 02:23   Link #25484
ganbaru
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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After Jackson, EPA faces decisions on U.S. fracking boom
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8BR02X20121228

Tale of two cities: Chicago murder rate spikes, New York falls
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8BR0LV20121228
Quote:
In a sharp contrast between two of the nation's largest cities, Chicago recorded its 499th murder of 2012 on Thursday night while New York reported 414 murders as of Friday even though it has more than three times the population, according to police.
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Old 2012-12-29, 03:49   Link #25485
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Well, if we were to put it from a more brutal perspective, the religious leaders are only there to "show face" and bolster their own image.

The humanists see the need not to for such an act, hence their absence.
It's worse than that, if that article can be trusted. The humanist leaders do see the need for such face showing, but just aren't good at it. (Or fighting an uphill battle to start with...)

So, what... They want to turn it into a freaking religion? They want to be the godless clergy? And the other guys also want them to turn into that, to be vindicated?


Of course, I find the article itself suspect in the way it frames things. It's asking what the atheists' spiritual leaders are doing. I can't help but think there's a problem there.
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Old 2012-12-29, 10:30   Link #25486
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
And, lastly, a thought-provoking opinion piece:

In a crisis, humanists seem absent
That's a pretty stupid article IMO. The majority of agnostics and atheists don't consider themselves part of some 'group' like humanists. They just don't believe in any organized religion, simple as that.

As I get older I get less and less inclined to defend atheism or, more specifically, agnosticism. I have no problem with people choosing to be religious and I am really only an agnostic because I can't 'force' myself to believe in any world religion which seems false to me. But a guy like this, who clearly seems to be taking aim at an extremely disparate group of people, with little in common other than their lack of belief in organized religion, draws my ire a bit.

I don't want to be part of some group called 'humanists' just because I lack belief in a religion. This isn't a facet of my person that is central enough to make me part of some kind of organization. I feel it's more than enough, for me; speaking to both my religious and non-religious friends about the absolute atrocity this massacre represents. I don't need some group to represent that thought and belief.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post

Of course, I find the article itself suspect in the way it frames things. It's asking what the atheists' spiritual leaders are doing. I can't help but think there's a problem there.
Exactly.
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Old 2012-12-29, 11:11   Link #25487
oompa loompa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
The extent of her injuries was not widely reported, possibly to spare the family and the public from the lurid details.

Rape victim's condition worsens


It is horrifying beyond imagination, that people could do something like that to another human being.
She passed away in a hospital in Singapore, here's the article : http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/30/wo...elhi.html?_r=0

I'm an Indian, and to be quite honest, I'm not sure what to think about all of this ( apart from the obvious disgust and shock when I heard about this). Not sure where the problem really is or how to fix it. Not sure if all of the violence and demand for capital punishment will do good. ( There were widespread protests throughout the country for more stringent laws, but also for things like asking the Delhi CM to resign, which turned quite violent ) . Not sure if all the top-down corruption, and apathy to violence and poverty will ever change. It's like our whole society is.. rotting, there's no other word for it.

The way our culture treats women is nothing short of appalling, just the other day I was having a conversation with my landlord (a student from Delhi University, apparently one of the best institutions in the country), about how it's important for women in his family to stay at home to take care of kids, and how its (I quote) impossible for a woman to take care of her looks, be good at sports, and be intelligent. This attitude permeates into our society really deeply : here are a couple of related articles anyone who's interested in the story:

http://www.times24.in/tehelka-sting-...es-will-go-on/
http://www.firstpost.com/living/from...ed-269957.html
: From a Tehelka article (which seems to have been taken down from their website) titled : The Rapes will Go On

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/de...b-s-son-310259 : This is an article on a statement made by the son of the President of India (who has conveniently become an MP), about how the protesting women are 'painted and dented'.
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Old 2012-12-29, 11:27   Link #25488
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
That's a pretty stupid article IMO. The majority of agnostics and atheists don't consider themselves part of some 'group' like humanists. They just don't believe in any organized religion, simple as that.
Indeed. If anything, I'd look to secular leaders to represent me in such matters. In this case, the President represented the best wishes of all Americans, and could represent us godless.

That said, there are some esteemed figures for atheists (various philosophers). I personally wouldn't include guys like Dawkins among them (too angry). Nothing worse then an atheist with a chip on their shoulder.
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Old 2012-12-29, 11:38   Link #25489
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
That said, there are some esteemed figures for atheists (various philosophers).
But even that is overstating it. There are just intellectuals who happen to be atheists who are well thought of by a portion of the population who happen to be atheists.

A lot of atheists don't actually give a damn about the matter. They (we) just don't believe in God and go about our day without thinking about it, let alone hunting down worthwhile representatives.

But maybe it's different in the US where the climate's more hostile.
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Old 2012-12-29, 11:53   Link #25490
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
But even that is overstating it. There are just intellectuals who happen to be atheists who are well thought of by a portion of the population who happen to be atheists.

A lot of atheists don't actually give a damn about the matter. They (we) just don't believe in God and go about our day without thinking about it, let alone hunting down worthwhile representatives.
I'd agree with that. Atheists, by their very nature, are too varied to be represented. Most substitute secular ideologies for religious ones (say, Liberalism, conservatism, socialism, communism etc.) in forming their views.
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Old 2012-12-29, 12:00   Link #25491
Anh_Minh
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I'd say most people aren't that structured to start with.

In everyday life, there's no need for ideology beyond that presented in this video. That and a dash of "I want more money" is enough for a lot of people, atheists or not.
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Old 2012-12-29, 12:50   Link #25492
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I'd say most people aren't that structured to start with.

In everyday life, there's no need for ideology beyond that presented in this video. That and a dash of "I want more money" is enough for a lot of people, atheists or not.
Most people are not particularly political, but they have certain basic beliefs and ideas formed by some particular world view or ideology. Things like "People should be equal", "people should look after themselves", "people are usually nice" or "people are inherently sinful".

The average apolitical person will have such beliefs, but he is only apolitical because he doesn't care to think about them too much, or argue with others about it. But those beliefs do shape his or her behaviour. There are very few people who lack a "world view" or "ideology" which informs them about how the world works (or is supposed to work).

These "world views" are often taken from either a religion or some kind of secular ideology.
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Old 2012-12-29, 12:55   Link #25493
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Most people are not particularly political, but they have certain basic beliefs and ideas formed by some particular world view or ideology. Things like "People should be equal", "people should look after themselves", "people are usually nice" or "people are inherently sinful".

The average apolitical person will have such beliefs, but he is only apolitical because he doesn't care to think about them too much, or argue with others about it. But those beliefs do shape his or her behaviour. There are very few people who lack a "world view" or "ideology" which informs them about how the world works (or is supposed to work).
Yeah, but they won't get to the point of fitting it into an "-ism". Or worry if they happen to mix and match several "-isms".
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Old 2012-12-29, 12:58   Link #25494
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Yeah, but they won't get to the point of fitting it into an "-ism". Or worry if they happen to mix and match several "-isms".
That's true, but it doesn't change that an "ism" has a deep effect on how they view the world, even if they don't know it.
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Old 2012-12-29, 13:04   Link #25495
Anh_Minh
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One or more. Heck, even if they don't believe in God, they may well be influenced by religious ideologies.
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Old 2012-12-29, 13:11   Link #25496
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oompa loompa View Post
She passed away in a hospital in Singapore, here's the article : http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/30/wo...elhi.html?_r=0

I'm an Indian, and to be quite honest, I'm not sure what to think about all of this ( apart from the obvious disgust and shock when I heard about this). Not sure where the problem really is or how to fix it. Not sure if all of the violence and demand for capital punishment will do good. ( There were widespread protests throughout the country for more stringent laws, but also for things like asking the Delhi CM to resign, which turned quite violent ) . Not sure if all the top-down corruption, and apathy to violence and poverty will ever change. It's like our whole society is.. rotting, there's no other word for it.

The way our culture treats women is nothing short of appalling, just the other day I was having a conversation with my landlord (a student from Delhi University, apparently one of the best institutions in the country), about how it's important for women in his family to stay at home to take care of kids, and how its (I quote) impossible for a woman to take care of her looks, be good at sports, and be intelligent. This attitude permeates into our society really deeply : here are a couple of related articles anyone who's interested in the story:

http://www.times24.in/tehelka-sting-...es-will-go-on/
http://www.firstpost.com/living/from...ed-269957.html
: From a Tehelka article (which seems to have been taken down from their website) titled : The Rapes will Go On

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/de...b-s-son-310259 : This is an article on a statement made by the son of the President of India (who has conveniently become an MP), about how the protesting women are 'painted and dented'.
1. You start off with the police force. Fire the old farts and hire more young people.

2. hire more outsiders to train the new police force. Don't let the old farts anywhere near the new recruits to pass on their institutional knowledge.

3. Start replacing the judges.

4. pass real laws on Rape with real punishments.

5. The most important and probably hardest, start a grassroots movement to change the mindset and culture in India regarding women. It will takes years, decade and maybe even 1 or 2 generations.
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Old 2012-12-29, 13:46   Link #25497
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Of course, I find the article itself suspect in the way it frames things. It's asking what the atheists' spiritual leaders are doing. I can't help but think there's a problem there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
That's a pretty stupid article IMO. The majority of agnostics and atheists don't consider themselves part of some 'group' like humanists. They just don't believe in any organized religion, simple as that.
I expected reactions, but not like these. It seems I read and understood the article very differently, and was oblivious to the author's alleged attempt to frame the discussion as one about humanism's inability to become an "organised religion".

I was drawn to the article because it reminded me of something I read a long time ago, about one of the biggest problems of secularism: the difficulty it faces in replacing or displacing the rituals of the past, rituals that are most often associated with religion. These are not just limited to the rituals of the major religions, but also to folk rituals that communities have used to mark major events: birth, marriage, sickness and death. Even the agricultural rituals of planting and harvest are usually rooted in religion.

I find it telling that in times of great distress, communities instinctively fall back on these rituals to find solace and the strength to carry on. And this is what I feel is often lacking in the secular view of the world, the relative difficulty it has in reaching people on a deeper, heartfelt and perhaps primeval level.

I felt that this was what the author was trying to reflect in his opinion piece. It's interesting to me that it would draw such completely opposite reactions.
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Old 2012-12-29, 13:57   Link #25498
Anh_Minh
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I don't know. France is a lot more secular than the US, and we don't have that kind of controversy. When tragedy strikes, a lot of people show up to express their condolences. Statistically, a lot of them must be unbelievers, but that's never what this is about. Nobody feels the need to say what religion they are, or to represent anything. (Except the politicians, who represent the Republic, and a desire to appear on TV and attract voters.)
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Old 2012-12-29, 17:28   Link #25499
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
1. You start off with the police force. Fire the old farts and hire more young people.

2. hire more outsiders to train the new police force. Don't let the old farts anywhere near the new recruits to pass on their institutional knowledge.

3. Start replacing the judges.

4. pass real laws on Rape with real punishments.

5. The most important and probably hardest, start a grassroots movement to change the mindset and culture in India regarding women. It will takes years, decade and maybe even 1 or 2 generations.
What I theorise is that the police force of India isn't actually bad because the policemen DO have a sense of duty against apparent crimes, as seen in the Mumbai Massacre then where :

1. A train station policeman wielded his Enfield against the terrorists' AK47s (YES, A BOLT ACTION AGAINST AN AUTOMATIC) so he could buy time for as many passengers to escape as possible.

2. A police chief rallied his men and personally led a storming against the terrorists at the hotel, but died due to being issued a small caliber bulletproof vest, which was no match for the heavy-hitting 7.62 round.

3. A policeman of his roadblock team who stopped the only survivor of the massacre grabbed onto the latter's gun to prevent it from hitting his colleagues, and got ventilated. His colleagues beat the terrorist up with their wooden sticks.

4. A NSG (India's GSG-9) commando was the last man standing of his fireteam while his teammates were injured and had to be evacuated. He chased the terrorists up the Taj Mahal Palace Hotel to mark their location for other teams and got killed in the subsequent firefight.

The policemen do have the spirit, but they are undertrained and under-armed, even the NSG - they did floor-to-floor combat with the terrorists when they should have swarmed the building with as many personnel as possible, securing all exits (floor-to-floor is meant for low-intensity engagements where shots are not yet fired). Plus their helicopters are out of order during the attack and they have to run from their base with their equipment to their target location. The body armour incident with the police chief is the most embarrassing because apparently the body armour was only for small caliber or low-velocity arms.

Ultimately, the policemen need to be paid enough to keep the thought of money out of their head - that should be a good start to stifle corruption, the biggest, if not greatest threat to a functioning police force.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-12-29, 17:45   Link #25500
justsomeguy
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@SaintessHeart

Too bad none of those actions you listed have anything to do with the sexism rampant in Indian culture. That country is proof that increasing wealth and education do not eliminate traditional attitudes, and needs a total cultural change for women to achieve anything resembling equality, because right now women in India are seen as having negative value (not just relative to men, but actual negative value since the bride's family has to pay the groom's for marriage ). There's a total lack of any appreciation for females.
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