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Old 2012-12-29, 12:34   Link #2341
Lhklan
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Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
Well, look at Miura. If she wins then it will be my point no? But that is not what I mean. Is just that as a result of this defeated and consider how the story was made, nothing really comes out of it. I am not against the main characters loosing. I am against the meaningless fights and the lack of any antagonism here. Makes it hard for me to care and so if they lose I just feel like nothing really was accomplish. What I am trying to say is that this could be handle a lot better but on this setting their defeats just feel cheap to me.
So? It's a freaking tournament. Some fights are bound to be meaningless.

As for the antagonism, they're all just children and teenagers. And Nanohaverse is very saccharine. Plus, it runs on "befriending". What did you expect?

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You are right about Victoria is just that I canít really buy that ďemperor lightingĒ or whatever she is call thing when I already saw Fate unleashing a thunder storm when she was 9. Harry, I donít think she is that different from Signum when the fact is that she just donít use a sword but her mid range attack is a flaming chain, for that matter Rioís sword was also in flames, soÖ where did I ever saw such thing together? Maybe I am just hard on them for other reasons, but to me they never really shine.
... That's it? Their style is the same cause they share the same style or range preference? That's just... -sorry to be rude- dumb.

This is a tournament that gather fighters from every corner of space. People having the same elements or range preference are certain.
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Old 2012-12-29, 13:54   Link #2342
Sansker
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I did expect something and I get nothing, as a matter of plot, characters or even interesting magic. If this is so open why they only use Mid-Childa and Belka styles when there is like 800 types of magic know?
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Old 2012-12-29, 14:02   Link #2343
Lhklan
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Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
I did expect something and I get nothing, as a matter of plot, characters or even interesting magic. If this is so open why they only use Mid-Childa and Belka styles when there is like 800 types of magic know?
Cause they're the most well known? I mean, the Belkan empire spans accross countless worlds, while the TSAB also have a sizeable amount of territory. Isn't it obvious that they would have strong influences on the other worlds?

Though I do admit that having many of characters using Belkan and Mid Childan is pushing it.
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Old 2012-12-29, 16:18   Link #2344
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Fate and Victoria being the same? Really? Fate is a Fragile speedster. Victoria is slow and armored. And we knew years ago that there are mages with elemental affinities, and that mages could train to cast spells with elemental properties. Would you really complain when you go to a martial arts tournament, and find two people who know Judo, because they are essentially copies of each other?

And Belkan and Mid are the two most common styles. Well, Mid is overall most common, with Belkan being a bit of a distant second (but gaining). One of the mangas explains why, and the differences between them. Belkan primarily focuses on strengthening the users body and weapons, while Mid focuses on more long distance spells.

It just makes sense that evolution of magic would refine the vast majority of mages into these two categories.
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Old 2012-12-29, 16:36   Link #2345
Sansker
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I just say how I see her, and that is about it. And yes, I will complain about they using the same powers when we live in a word so open to more creative ways of having fighters.

And no, it doesn’t make sense that they only use Mid-Childa and Belka when we don’t really know any significant difference between them or how the others work. I mean we have seem Mid-Childa use to close range and Belka use on long range, I never get where they are suppose to be different.
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Old 2012-12-29, 16:50   Link #2346
Endscape
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Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
I just say how I see her, and that is about it. And yes, I will complain about they using the same powers when we live in a word so open to more creative ways of having fighters.

And no, it doesnít make sense that they only use Mid-Childa and Belka when we donít really know any significant difference between them or how the others work. I mean we have seem Mid-Childa use to close range and Belka use on long range, I never get where they are suppose to be different.
Kaijo just mentioned the difference between Mid and Belka styles. Sure, there may be exceptions, but generally it is as Kaijo said.
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Old 2012-12-29, 17:20   Link #2347
Sansker
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Is a simple explanation, and could be useful but I have seem too many exceptions to such rules to consider it an actual factor.
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Old 2012-12-30, 00:50   Link #2348
Lhklan
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I just say how I see her, and that is about it. And yes, I will complain about they using the same powers when we live in a word so open to more creative ways of having fighters.
Are you talking about our world or Nanohaworld?

Quote:
And no, it doesnít make sense that they only use Mid-Childa and Belka when we donít really know any significant difference between them or how the others work. I mean we have seem Mid-Childa use to close range and Belka use on long range, I never get where they are suppose to be different.
No, it makes sense to use only Mid and Belka style. They're the most widespread and well known, so why bother fixing that ain't broken? And considering the sheer versality of those two styles, each mage can then modify it to suit their own tasted. Better to introduce a new style, which will require a large amount of world building, balancing and functional issues.
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Old 2012-12-30, 10:10   Link #2349
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You may as well complain that football players tend to use the same plays. Or that auto shops tend to use the same toolbox setups. Or that beekeepers use the same methods of keeping hives and extracting honey.

Within anything, there is generally only a few ways of doing something the most efficiently, or the most effective. Evolution naturally guides us ALL down the same path, because it turns out to be the best way. It would be no different with magic. There are generally two best ways(Mid and Belkan, representing long and close range fighting), but there are some minor variation within those.

Look down at your computer, Sansker. I'm willing to bet that it is either a desktop/laptop with a keyboard and mouse, or it's a tablet/smartphone with a touchscreen. Why aren't you using anything different? Why are you looking at a monitor that's the same as everyone else?
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Old 2012-12-30, 11:50   Link #2350
Sansker
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My computer? Football? What any of that has to do with anything?

I am afraid you are missing the point here. I am saying we could have more magic styles because we have to consider how vast and large the Nanoha universe really is. Dozens of worlds with different civilizations. Just look at our world now you bring that up and tell how many fight styles are just here, how many cultures and different people. I’m just saying we could see more variety on the magic doesn’t matter how good or bad the Mid-Childa and Belka systems are.

I am just saying we can and should have more. And shouldn’t be that hard, just look they introduce things on ViVid. Mention them once and then have a character talk about it. This isn’t about if such new styles will be better or worse than Mid-Childa or Belka, is not about fixing them. My point is that: we could see more. That is all I am saying. There is no need to limit yourself to two almost identical magic styles. And before you just start point me out how different Belka and Mid-Childa are just remember that this isn’t the point. I am saying will be nice to see other styles.
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Old 2012-12-30, 12:12   Link #2351
Lhklan
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My computer? Football? What any of that has to do with anything?

I am afraid you are missing the point here. I am saying we could have more magic styles because we have to consider how vast and large the Nanoha universe really is. Dozens of worlds with different civilizations. Just look at our world now you bring that up and tell how many fight styles are just here, how many cultures and different people. Iím just saying we could see more variety on the magic doesnít matter how good or bad the Mid-Childa and Belka systems are.
What he's saying that, if something is so widespread, evidently more than one people using the same thing is inevitable. Yes, the Nanoha universe is vast and large. But consider the fact that:

A: It's either under TSAB control, or not. As such, if it's the first case, then there's bound to be TSAB mages there. So the youngster might want to learn the new stuff aka Mid Childan, rather than stick to the style of their planet. Some might feel differently, but generally it's always that way.

B: The Saint Church is almost everywhere, even on non-TSAB world. You can apply the same principle above down here, only the reason might a bit different. They might want to become like the people in legends. So the easiest way is to start with the same style AKA Belkan.

Quote:
I am just saying we can and should have more. And shouldnít be that hard, just look they introduce things on ViVid. Mention them once and then have a character talk about it. This isnít about if such new styles will be better or worse than Mid-Childa or Belka, is not about fixing them. My point is that: we could see more. That is all I am saying. There is no need to limit yourself to two almost identical magic styles. And before you just start point me out how different Belka and Mid-Childa are just remember that this isnít the point. I am saying will be nice to see other styles.
Pardon me, but the first line sounds ... conceided. It's just my impression though..

And if it isn't that hard, why don't you introduce one?

You have to take into consideration the author's problem too. How would it function? What it is based on? What's the difference? What make them noteworthy? Any renowed figure using that style? Hundreds of question can come out before you start. And even then, there's still the most important question, would it appeals to the audience?
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Old 2012-12-30, 13:07   Link #2352
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Old 2012-12-30, 13:54   Link #2353
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I think what I like in the few latest chapters is how chillax Nanoha, Fate and Hayate are even though all the skills - even Sieg - displayed by the current legends of the past were supposedly, well, of legendary status. Nanoha: "An entire army? Why, I did them in when I was 9!"
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Old 2012-12-30, 19:37   Link #2354
Tiresias
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*delurks*

I seem to have missed the part where age nine Nanoha wiped an actual army
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Last edited by Tiresias; 2012-12-30 at 21:43.
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Old 2013-01-01, 07:06   Link #2355
APNki
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Full raw for chapter 44 is out.
Spoiler for stuff:
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Old 2013-01-01, 08:36   Link #2356
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Curbstomped?

Well at least she'll be known as one of the finalists...
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Old 2013-01-01, 13:29   Link #2357
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Wow, Sieglinde is a blatant Juggernaut for Vivid-cast. For all her efforts Einhart manage only to get Sieg t get serious and totally OWN her.
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Old 2013-01-01, 15:04   Link #2358
Akiyoshi
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LOL, that's what Einahrt gets for hitting all the indicators xDU

...her outcome wasn't a surprise at all xDU
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Old 2013-01-01, 20:03   Link #2359
Kaijo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
My computer? Football? What any of that has to do with anything?

I am afraid you are missing the point here. I am saying we could have more magic styles because we have to consider how vast and large the Nanoha universe really is. Dozens of worlds with different civilizations. Just look at our world now you bring that up and tell how many fight styles are just here, how many cultures and different people. Iím just saying we could see more variety on the magic doesnít matter how good or bad the Mid-Childa and Belka systems are.

I am just saying we can and should have more. And shouldnít be that hard, just look they introduce things on ViVid. Mention them once and then have a character talk about it. This isnít about if such new styles will be better or worse than Mid-Childa or Belka, is not about fixing them. My point is that: we could see more. That is all I am saying. There is no need to limit yourself to two almost identical magic styles. And before you just start point me out how different Belka and Mid-Childa are just remember that this isnít the point. I am saying will be nice to see other styles.
Let me clear this up for you, then: You are going before the entire National Football league, and telling them: "Why do you confine everything to passing and running plays? Why can't you do something different and give us more variety?"

If you are in a race with someone else to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible, are you going to walk over a mountain? Or take a plane over it? We, as humans, naturally find the best way to do something, and that is copied by everyone else.

To bring an analogy closer to what we have in Vivid, we do have martial arts competitions. And despite quite a few different styles, it basically boils down to just a few things: punching/palm strikes, kicks, and throws. And there are generally accepted "best" ways to do all three, so you can expect to see people doing the same things over and over. If you were to ask for more "variety" and different ways of attacking, people would look at you funny.

Long story short: As humans, we gravitate to the best ways of doing something, and once someone finds it, others copy it.

Honestly, despite my many issues with Vivid, "lack of variety" isn't one of them. Sure, there are similar styles and attacks between some of the characters... but there are plenty that aren't.
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Old 2013-01-01, 21:39   Link #2360
Sansker
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Well at least this is true: Sieg’s ancestor might destroy armies but Nanoha could do the same at 9.

And I am afraid you guys aren’t getting my point. ViVid’s combat styles are really cheap on its variety and the actual differences aren’t that great or matter that much. Magic styles as Belka and Mid-Childa are as good or bad as the story makes them look so far, yes and as Lhklan that might have to do with the TSAB and the Church being so large and controlling a lot of places. Also as Kaijo says: As humans, we gravitate to the best ways of doing something, and once someone finds it, others copy it. But nothing of that matters, at all.

You see, ViVid is fantasy. Is a story. What I am saying is that the author could get creative and bring more of the magic styles he himself made a character say there are, so we can see more of the variety. On that regard nothing can stop the author from doing it. I mean, why not? If he wants he can, and that is it: he doesn’t want. Now he might have his reasons and etc. but my point was never about such reasons. As good as the explanations that have been present might sound, what prevents me from making another one? On this case isn’t a matter of who is right and who is wrong, I just ask if won’t be nice to have more magic styles and see that on ViVid to add some flavor on the fights. How the author does it or what troubles will he face is his own problem. I will never accept the “think on the author” excuse when the matter falls down to, how creative you can be?

Just saying, will be nice to have more magic styles and not just different kicks on a same style? I will agree most fighters can put a personal seal on their fights but adding the magic system element will help to make it look more rich and unique on its own rights. At least to me.
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