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Old 2012-12-29, 14:28   Link #81
King Lycan
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Can't really compare Luffy and Zoro right now especially after the time skip we haven't seen any real battle in which we could actually rate them. But considering that Luffy is the main character I doubt Zoro is stronger than him. And we all know that a person's bounty has no correlation to how strong a person in One Piece. Regarding Sanji I don't think just because he injured his leg against Vergo doesn't necessarily mean he would have lost. I'm thinking he might have a new leg ability similar to and more powerful than "Diable Jambe" he does it a lot more often now. If it were his most powerful attack I think he would use it a lot less like he did before when it was.
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Old 2012-12-29, 14:42   Link #82
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Love how Kuma willingly jumps into the shitstorm after predicting it.
Better to liven up this place instead of having it degenerate into a graveyard before the next chapter, right ?

------

Alright, here's another off-topic discussion I'd like to get more people's opinions on. Pre-time-skip, how strong were Garp and Sengoku in comparison to the admirals? Were they noticeably weaker, slightly weaker, on par, slightly stronger, or noticeably stronger than the admirals? I'll post my thoughts later on.
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Old 2012-12-29, 14:43   Link #83
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There has to always be very good reason for side character to become stronger than main character and that has usually something to do with character development process, and we don't have such phase going on in OP.

But I believe Oda likes to keep Zoro as close as possible to Luffy in terms of power so we can get some sort on tension going on. That is good for the show.
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Old 2012-12-29, 15:17   Link #84
andy
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Better to liven up this place instead of having it degenerate into a graveyard before the next chapter, right ?

------

Alright, here's another off-topic discussion I'd like to get more people's opinions on. Pre-time-skip, how strong were Garp and Sengoku in comparison to the admirals? Were they noticeably weaker, slightly weaker, on par, slightly stronger, or noticeably stronger than the admirals? I'll post my thoughts later on.
I would say on par just to be on the safe side .
Truth is there allot we don't know about them like Sengoku DF , there Haki techniques etc etc .
Still age was getting to Garp since he said his power was going down but i was say on par or i think Garp has the edge from what we know of him .
Waiting to see what you think we got time to kill.
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Old 2012-12-29, 15:48   Link #85
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I would say on par too, but Sengoku/Garp might lose if the fight drags on.

I use Rayleigh as my reference point.

Taking away, WB and Roger who are clearly on another level and mentioned as equals, you would think Rayleigh would be about equal to either Sengoku and Garp.

Rayleigh is able to match up Kizaru and escape unscratched so there is no reason why Sengoku or Garp can't do the same especially with Garp is being active on the front line.

However at same time I do think old age and decline in physical attribute matters, so I do think if the battle prolong, the admiral should have the advantage.
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Old 2012-12-29, 15:54   Link #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Alright, here's another off-topic discussion I'd like to get more people's opinions on. Pre-time-skip, how strong were Garp and Sengoku in comparison to the admirals? Were they noticeably weaker, slightly weaker, on par, slightly stronger, or noticeably stronger than the admirals? I'll post my thoughts later on.
I'm going with noticeably stronger because of the age and length of their service in the navy. Garp was known for fighting Roger many times and surviving If a lot of people were doing that I don't think he would have been known for that. Sengoku's devil fruit Hito Hito no Mi haven't seen its full power yet though but it is a Mythical Zoan type which is very rare.
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Old 2012-12-29, 16:20   Link #87
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I personally believe at least Garp is stronger than the Admirals (well, the pre-timeskip ones ofc), not by a whole lot but he'd still have a nice edge on them.
Garp was known for having multiple confrontations with Roger in their time, to the point where they gained such mutual respect that Roger entrusted his child to him. If Roger and WB were about the same level back in the day, I'd say Garp was close to their level if not actually on par with them. True, age weakened him much like it did the oldies like Rayleigh and WB but even an aged and severely sick and injured WB destroyed Akainu when he got angered. I believe that had Sengoku not stopped Garp he would have seriously broken Akainu in half.

Sengoku...I'm not sure, he was obviously at admiral level and his age didn't affect him as it did Garp since he's a bit younger...but I think he'd be more or less on par with the admirals back during the war.

To sum it up...pre-timeskip, Garp was to me the strongest Marine we know of with Sengoku and the other admirals coming in second.

Speaking of which...I really want to know who the two new Admirals are xD
How much of a kick in the nuts for Luffy would it be if one of the new admirals had Ace's Devil Fruit powers?
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Old 2012-12-29, 16:29   Link #88
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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I would say on par just to be on the safe side .
Truth is there allot we don't know about them like Sengoku DF , there Haki techniques etc etc .
Still age was getting to Garp since he said his power was going down but i was say on par or i think Garp has the edge from what we know of him .
Waiting to see what you think we got time to kill.
I'd also say on par. Truth be told, Garp and Sengoku ride mostly on hype than feats (and the hype that they ride on stems from their prime selves). But the praise, recognition, and acknowledgement, they get speaks volumes of their strength. When the World's Strongest Man, Whitebeard, mentions your name in the same breath as Roger, you know these guys are extraordinary to say the least. They're world-renowned legends, and their reputations precede them.

Rayleigh serves as a good indicator as to where Garp and Sengoku should roughly stand amongst the elites. This guy, who's retired and has been inactive for 20+ years, fought Kizaru to a stalemate. While neither of them were fully exerting themselves in that short skirmish, the feat is still remarkable. Garp, in his prime, nearly killed and cornered Roger on numerous occasions. And seeing as how he was still an active marine after Roger's death, rustiness wouldn't really be an issue for him. That implies that at the very least he would be able to replicate Rayleigh's performance against an admiral, if not surpass it.

Sengoku seems to be more known for his tactical brilliance than strength. His moniker "the buddha" and DF even suggest him to be an "enlightened" being. Of course, being a former admiral in the past would mean that he was exceptionally strong in his own right. After all, he used to pursue Shiki, a rival of Roger, by himself in the past. Even back during the shichibukai meeting to discuss Croc's replacement, he told Doflamingo to stop messing around, to which he did, which implies the man commands respect and is not to be trifled with.

Moving on to actual feats now.

During the war at Marineford, Marco and Kizaru never managed to best each other. Then when Marco flies up to the execution platform to rescue Ace, Garp immediately gets right in his face and punches him down to the ground with force comparable to a meteorite hitting the ground. This was also the first real wound that Marco sustained, evident by the expression and scratches on his face. Everyone made a big deal out of Garp finally getting himself involved (even Whitebeard showed some concern), a reaction that not even the admirals invoked. As for Sengoku, Whitebeard praised him for his effective strategies and he took on the entire Blackbeard crew by himself, suffering only minor injuries by the end of the war (a true testament to his sheer power and durability). Very few could replicate this feat.

Having said all of this, I'd say that being on par with the admirals is a reasonable assessment of their fighting strength. But post-time-skip, I feel that the admirals have overtaken Garp and Sengoku.
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Old 2012-12-29, 18:19   Link #89
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Aw no, I'm not falling into another of Grey's nefarious traps this time (lord knows I fell into them enough times already ). So pardon me if I go against the flow of this latest penis contest debate:



So as I've mentioned during the last couple of threads, I believe that Chopper (with Law's help) may be able to create a vaccine for Caesar's poison using Luffy's DNA. I can see this having a lot of positive effects for the crew's reputation, not the least of which of them being that this would be a big step for Chopper to realize his dream. Another benefit is that by saving Kinemon with this hypothetical cure, he'd be further indebted to the Straw-Hats, which may even lead to them becoming VIP guests at the Wano country (not like that wouldn't happen anyway, but at least the country's residents may be interested in the vaccine).


But of course, this is only a theory. But still, I think this would make for a good resolution to this arc, and would be an ideal moment for Chopper's growth. I mean, I think this is the first arc we've had since he joined where we actually see him putting his medical skills to the test by struggling to save those drugged giant kids. Wouldn't it be great if all that effort actually bore some fruit....?
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Old 2012-12-30, 11:56   Link #90
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Aw no, I'm not falling into another of Grey's nefarious traps this time (lord knows I fell into them enough times already ). So pardon me if I go against the flow of this latest penis contest debate:



So as I've mentioned during the last couple of threads, I believe that Chopper (with Law's help) may be able to create a vaccine for Caesar's poison using Luffy's DNA. I can see this having a lot of positive effects for the crew's reputation, not the least of which of them being that this would be a big step for Chopper to realize his dream. Another benefit is that by saving Kinemon with this hypothetical cure, he'd be further indebted to the Straw-Hats, which may even lead to them becoming VIP guests at the Wano country (not like that wouldn't happen anyway, but at least the country's residents may be interested in the vaccine).

But of course, this is only a theory. But still, I think this would make for a good resolution to this arc, and would be an ideal moment for Chopper's growth. I mean, I think this is the first arc we've had since he joined where we actually see him putting his medical skills to the test by struggling to save those drugged giant kids. Wouldn't it be great if all that effort actually bore some fruit....?

Do we have evidence that Luffy is immune to the poison?
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Old 2012-12-30, 12:01   Link #91
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Do we have evidence that Luffy is immune to the poison?
Luffy's miraculous recovery from Magellan's poisoning in Impel Down. It was stated several times that Luffy's gained a natural immunity to a large number of poisons thanks to that, not just one. Demonstrated when he punched Hyouzou in the previous arc.

The immune system is an amazing thing if it can withstand that first onslaught.~
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Old 2012-12-30, 12:15   Link #92
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I know about that but is he immune to the poison gas?
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Old 2012-12-30, 12:18   Link #93
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^ I doubt he's immune to the poison gas.
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Old 2012-12-30, 12:45   Link #94
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The physical state of the poison doesn't matter, only the type of poison matters.
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Old 2012-12-30, 12:58   Link #95
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You can change something's state of matter without affecting it's chemical composition. Water for example, even when frozen as ice or evaporated as steam, it's chemical composition always remains at 2 hydrogen atoms and an oxygen atom. (H2O)

Unless the poison gases produced from Caesar's devil fruit work differently, if chilled at a very low enough temperature it should be condensed into a liquid poison.
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Old 2012-12-30, 17:48   Link #96
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I know about that but is he immune to the poison gas?

Not only did we see Luffy inhale Caesar's gases during their first fight without feeling its effects, he also blasted him away after he merged with Shinokuni, meaning he touched the poison without feeling anything. Now compare that to his earlier battles with Magellan where he nearly died after making physical contact with the warden. I mean, sure Luffy has armor haki now, but I doubt that power alone would be able to protect against poison. So yeah, I'd say that he's immune.
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Old 2012-12-30, 22:13   Link #97
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I would say that if Luffy isn't totally immune to poison, his resistance to poison is so incredibly high you might as well say he's immune.
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Old 2012-12-31, 04:03   Link #98
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Not only did we see Luffy inhale Caesar's gases during their first fight without feeling its effects, he also blasted him away after he merged with Shinokuni, meaning he touched the poison without feeling anything.
That's not quite true.
We can see, that Luffy's hands become white, like all the other people who get in contact with Shinokuni. But then it just starts to drop off.

BTW, I think the effect of this poison gas looks a lot like Mr. 3's wax.
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Old 2012-12-31, 17:01   Link #99
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I agree. I think it's similar like healing factor in Marvel Universe. It still effects Luffy, the question is how fast he recovers.

But since it now looks like he can even recover from Shinokuni pretty quickly, I doubt there is any poison out there that can really give him trouble other than maybe Magellan himself.
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Old 2013-01-03, 06:49   Link #100
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gohan was stronger than goku. whos to say zoro CANT be stronger than luffy just because he isn't the main
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