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Old 2012-12-31, 15:21   Link #201
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
And she did well enough to push Obito into giving up his eye and a limb.
in obito's defense, he purposefully walked right into konan's ambush that she had been planning for quite some time. if the match between obito and konan were fought on equal ground without preparation, she wouldn't have been able to do anything. also, obito regards most of his body as expendable so he doesn't take the same precautions a ninja with a normal body would take and he was fighting to keep her alive for information. she was fighting to kill which is easier

konan was also pretty useless against jiraiya as Endscape pointed out. i dont think konan was on the sannin level at all. she wasn't on average akatsuki member level either. she was just nagato's friend/follower. i think tsunade would have wiped the floor with her
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Old 2012-12-31, 16:35   Link #202
sayde
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
in obito's defense, he purposefully walked right into konan's ambush that she had been planning for quite some time. if the match between obito and konan were fought on equal ground without preparation, she wouldn't have been able to do anything. also, obito regards most of his body as expendable so he doesn't take the same precautions a ninja with a normal body would take and he was fighting to keep her alive for information. she was fighting to kill which is easier
Point taken. But seriously, can we honestly think of plausible ways for someone like Tsunade to fair any better based solely on the jutsu's we know for a fact she can use?

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konan was also pretty useless against jiraiya as Endscape pointed out. i dont think konan was on the sannin level at all. she wasn't on average akatsuki member level either. she was just nagato's friend/follower. i think tsunade would have wiped the floor with her
Yes, but how? That's the one thing I struggle to think of, and the one thing I rarely see people able to answer. Konan was pretty useless against Jiraiya because Jiraiya had a jutsu that proved to be one of her biggest weaknesses. (he could spit toad oil) It's also a jutsu that someone like Tsunade can't use as far as we know. Speaking of which, I can't think of any jutsu's we know Tsunade can use that would make a battle against Konan just as quick and simple as the one Jiraiya had against her. So I think its wrong to apply simple A=B therefore, B>C logic in this case.

Yes, Tsunade is Kage level in many ways, but in terms of actual Kage levels feats, the most noticeable things we've seen from her have been limited to more supportive and defensive capabilities. Offensively, she's always felt lacking in options--especially in comparison to other Kage. And that's why I think it would be a good match. Because much to Tsunade's credit, if she can land a clean hit, she can make it count. But based on Tsunade's offensive capabilities, I'm not convinced that landing the one hit would be so simple a matter against someone who can stay clean out of her reach and phase through hand-to-hand assaults.

Last edited by sayde; 2012-12-31 at 17:55.
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Old 2012-12-31, 19:24   Link #203
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
Point taken. But seriously, can we honestly think of plausible ways for someone like Tsunade to fair any better based solely on the jutsu's we know for a fact she can use?
[...]
Yes, but how? That's the one thing I struggle to think of, and the one thing I rarely see people able to answer.
Indeed, her offensive abilities seem lackluster compared to some of the flashier techniques such as Susanoo or FRS, however she easily accomplishes a comparable amount of damage with her raw strength, which Madara even took note of(thats saying something coming from him). She is practically walking around in sage-mode, save a few perks.

As for the issue with long range, I can see Tsunade using her summon to split into hundreds of divisions and spit acid, or perform some other well coordinated attack if necessary. Not to mention she can also “wear” a small slug for extra defense if needed. Tsunade has incredible stamina, dodging ability, battle experience, and her healing is currently the best in the ninja world –indeed she has survived some very devastating attacks. So, I think the question is rather what will Konan really be able to do to stop Tsunade, besides that impractical trap laid for Obito? (Impractical in the sense that it takes considerable preparation and cannot be done on the fly) Probably not much : /
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Old 2013-01-01, 01:26   Link #204
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
Yes, but how? That's the one thing I struggle to think of, and the one thing I rarely see people able to answer. Konan was pretty useless against Jiraiya because Jiraiya had a jutsu that proved to be one of her biggest weaknesses. (he could spit toad oil) It's also a jutsu that someone like Tsunade can't use as far as we know. Speaking of which, I can't think of any jutsu's we know Tsunade can use that would make a battle against Konan just as quick and simple as the one Jiraiya had against her. So I think its wrong to apply simple A=B therefore, B>C logic in this case.
I see what you're saying, but i think it's simply a matter of tsunade never having to fight someone like konan, so we haven't really seen what she can do in that case. obviously i'm speculating here, but her summoning is slugs, which are slimy, wet and sticky which is actually similar to the toad oil. i'd assume that if she could cover konan with slug juices she'd be done for =) then there's the issue of what konan could do to tsuande which is not much (if anything) that tsunade couldn't either dodge or heal quickly
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Old 2013-01-01, 03:42   Link #205
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Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
Indeed, her offensive abilities seem lackluster compared to some of the flashier techniques such as Susanoo or FRS, however she easily accomplishes a comparable amount of damage with her raw strength, which Madara even took note of(thats saying something coming from him). She is practically walking around in sage-mode, save a few perks.
Indeed. It goes without saying that this is what I've implied when I acknowledged how dangerous she can be from close-range.

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Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
As for the issue with long range, I can see Tsunade using her summon to split into hundreds of divisions and spit acid, or perform some other well coordinated attack if necessary. Not to mention she can also “wear” a small slug for extra defense if needed.
I feel bad for failing to factor in this summon of hers. That acidic spit seems like it would be a rather effective technique against Konan. Good point. I guess it slipped my mind because it wasn't a technique Tsunade herself could use.

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Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
Tsunade has incredible stamina, dodging ability, battle experience, and her healing is currently the best in the ninja world –indeed she has survived some very devastating attacks. So, I think the question is rather what will Konan really be able to do to stop Tsunade, besides that impractical trap laid for Obito? (Impractical in the sense that it takes considerable preparation and cannot be done on the fly) Probably not much : /
I've always seen Konan's biggest threat lies with her intellect and how she can apply it to her signature jutsu style to be one of the most dangerous on-the-fly trap users in this series. We also know that Tsunade is not completely invulnerable to taking damage by any means. She just happens to have techniques to rapidly recover from the damage at the cost of draining her chakra.

With that said, creating explosive tags are a pretty simple task for Konan. And disguising it is also something she excels in better than anyone else I can think of. Even her clones can be riddled with explosives.

Now I know we've seen Tsunade recover from some pretty serious and fatal injuries but explosions easily have the potential to cause far more instantaneous damage than we've ever seen her sustain at any one moment. So in theory, Konan has the tools to force her into expending chakra at an alarming rate--if not instantly kill her without allowing her techniques time to regenerate anything.

So for me, it ultimately comes down to whether Tsunade can survive a multitude of cleverly laid exploding traps long enough to land a decisive blow and whether Konan can end the battle before getting caught by Katsuyu's spit or some other well planned assault--which is why I can see it going either way.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
I see what you're saying, but i think it's simply a matter of tsunade never having to fight someone like konan, so we haven't really seen what she can do in that case. obviously i'm speculating here, but her summoning is slugs, which are slimy, wet and sticky which is actually similar to the toad oil. i'd assume that if she could cover konan with slug juices she'd be done for =)
Yeah. I concede on that particular instance.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
then there's the issue of what konan could do to tsuande which is not much (if anything) that tsunade couldn't either dodge or heal quickly
To sum it up, I envision Konan's chances lying within in her keen intellect, and her ability to apply it to create highly damaging paper-based traps that would be hard to dodge indefinitely while also possibly overwhelming Tsunade's forbidden regeneration/creation techniques.

Last edited by sayde; 2013-01-01 at 03:56.
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Old 2013-01-01, 04:09   Link #206
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Tsunade fights with her fists, Konan turns into a mass of paper.

This isn't downplaying Tsunade's abilities, it's just a matter of bad match-up.

As for what happened with Jiraiya, he used oil. Konan's weak against thick, sticky liquid.
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Old 2013-01-01, 14:01   Link #207
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Tsunade wouldn't be able to do anything against Jiraiya either.
Jiraiya has almost died only 2 times: Once when loosening the seal on Naruto and once when he peeped on Tsunade.

Also we haven't seen Tsunade fight all out, the one time she did it was against Madara and most of the fight was skipped. Even then she was able to destroy Madara's susanoo with punches. She's also considered the strongest kuinoichi in the world.

As for the exploding paper Konan has, if that acidic spit thing is put all over them they probably won't reach Tsunade and then all it takes is one of Tsunade's techniques for Konan not to move her body anymore.
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Old 2013-01-01, 14:17   Link #208
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Yeah me thinks tsunade would clean house wit Konan and every other member of akatsuki including deva path...
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Old 2013-01-01, 15:07   Link #209
sayde
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Originally Posted by Cub-Sama View Post
Jiraiya has almost died only 2 times: Once when loosening the seal on Naruto and once when he peeped on Tsunade.
lol. It's not like we know much in the way of details about that particular instance. So I'm not sure that would provide any meaningful proof of anything beyond the fact that she can really hurt you if she can hit you.

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Also we haven't seen Tsunade fight all out, the one time she did it was against Madara and most of the fight was skipped. Even then she was able to destroy Madara's susanoo with punches. She's also considered the strongest kuinoichi in the world.
Yeah. We know how much destruction she can cause with her fists. But as I've repeatedly suggested, all that destructive strength means nothing if she can't connect with it. And Konan's not exactly an immobile close-range type of fighter. True, Tsunade further demonstrated some impressive feats of strength against Madara and Susanoo. But instances such as this are redundant in the sense that all they further prove is the prowess of her physical strength--which has been well acknowledged by now. Neither Madara nor Susanoo where demonstrating a concerned effort to try and evade those attacks. Madara basically took those attacks head-on with Susanoo. I don't see someone like Konan having the same approach.

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Originally Posted by Cub-Sama View Post
As for the exploding paper Konan has, if that acidic spit thing is put all over them they probably won't reach Tsunade and then all it takes is one of Tsunade's techniques for Konan not to move her body anymore.
And this is where things get messy. Because now it comes down to a bunch of a hypothetical scenarios where we can get caught up in an endless cycle of "if"-based arguments. So basically, where as you could argue that the match would be over if the slugs spit connected, I could just as easily suggest that Konan might be able to avoid it or blow Katsuyu up before she can use it (or any other possibility I can come up with off the top of my head.)

So I respectfully draw the line here.

Ultimately I prefer to decide these things, based solely on considering their respective techniques, strengths, and weaknesses. Having done that, I'm still of the opinion that both of these women possess ways to create plausible circumstances for victory (circumstances we could probably continue to argue and debate upon ad nauseum).
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Old 2013-01-01, 18:01   Link #210
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Forget Tsunade. In theory, someone like Temari would destroy Konan given she could both repell and cut her into a million pieces.
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Old 2013-01-01, 18:05   Link #211
sayde
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Forget Tsunade. In theory, someone like Temari would destroy Konan given she could both repell and cut her into a million pieces.
Were it not for the fact that she can harden those sheets of paper to be a strong as steel, I might actually agree.
*edit*
Actually, I forgot the fact that Temari's wind skills have developed to the point where she's been shown to cut some pretty durable opponents. So, yeah. I could see Temari being potentially a bad match-up for Konan. Konan would really have to make use of her intellect to stand a chance.

Last edited by sayde; 2013-01-01 at 18:25.
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Old 2013-01-01, 23:47   Link #212
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Actually, I forgot the fact that Temari's wind skills have developed to the point where she's been shown to cut some pretty durable opponents. So, yeah. I could see Temari being potentially a bad match-up for Konan. Konan would really have to make use of her intellect to stand a chance.
I see it the other way. If Konan is able to freely manipulate paper, to decompose something into small sheets of paper and then reassemble it, then it means cutting her paper is completely useless since she can just reattach it. And if that's true then Temari's slicing wind is completely useless, since whenever she cuts the paper will just reassemble. Unfortunately these secondary characters like Konan and Temari are usually given only one strong jutsu and usually some slight variations in it, then maybe a few lesser support jutsu, so if Kishimoto really had them fight in 1on1 then he would probably invent many more jutsu for them. What i mean is that these characters seem weaker because they don't get enough screen time. Based on the story most likely Kishimoto wanted them to be: Tsunade (kage) > Konan (akatsuki) > Temari (elite jounin).
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Old 2013-01-02, 12:05   Link #213
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"Naruto's...so big and strong..."

Decent chapter. I was very impressed by Kirabi's gamble. And Madara and Obito's interaction continues to be interesting.

Oh, and Hinata was okay as well. .
Pretty much. Liked the Kyuubi, I'm part of you too you little shit part.
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Old 2013-01-02, 13:15   Link #214
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Yeah me thinks tsunade would clean house wit Konan and every other member of akatsuki including deva path...
Yea, no... She wouldn't stand much of a chance as Jiruya did...

as someone said above, Temari would be useless against Konan unless she can produce fire.
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Old 2013-01-02, 13:22   Link #215
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no chapter this week?
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Old 2013-01-02, 19:56   Link #216
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I always thought Oro would have fared the best out of the sannin against the six paths and Konan, being the sneaky evil bastard that he is.
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Old 2013-01-02, 20:01   Link #217
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I always thought Oro would have fared the best out of the sannin against the six paths and Konan, being the sneaky evil bastard that he is.
At full strength, I have to agree with this. I don't think Jiraiya, if both fought in their primes, could beat Orochimaru. During the 3-way fight, Had all 3 been at full power, I still think Orochimaru would have managed to (barely) win
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Old 2013-01-02, 20:25   Link #218
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Much like b1gdawg above, I too wish to know why we have yet to see Chapter 616.
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Old 2013-01-02, 22:33   Link #219
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I see it the other way. If Konan is able to freely manipulate paper, to decompose something into small sheets of paper and then reassemble it, then it means cutting her paper is completely useless since she can just reattach it. And if that's true then Temari's slicing wind is completely useless, since whenever she cuts the paper will just reassemble. Unfortunately these secondary characters like Konan and Temari are usually given only one strong jutsu and usually some slight variations in it, then maybe a few lesser support jutsu, so if Kishimoto really had them fight in 1on1 then he would probably invent many more jutsu for them. What i mean is that these characters seem weaker because they don't get enough screen time.
No doubt. And that's an interesting way to look at things. It definitely changes the way I envision the battle going. When I try to imagine it now, I see it being a stalemate for awhile since Konan's direct attacks can simply be blown away while Temari's attacks sound like they might not have much if any effect. Ultimately, I'd give a slight advantage to Konan for being the one more likely to outsmart Temari into falling into a trap.

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Based on the story most likely Kishimoto wanted them to be: Tsunade (kage) > Konan (akatsuki) > Temari (elite jounin).
You'll see no argument from me there. That's to say, if Kishi were to write a dream match involving Tsunade and Konan (for instance), I'm sure he'd find a way for Tsunade to pull out a win. But if we disregard the authors intent and general shonen power level logic, and go strictly by what we've been shown, it makes for some interesting possibilities IMO.
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Much like b1gdawg above, I too wish to know why we have yet to see Chapter 616.
From what I've heard, don't expect to see another chapter until around the 15th to 16th.
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Old 2013-01-02, 22:46   Link #220
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I cant believe it myself... i remembered my login data.
After more then a full year... probably two years i am finally back on Animesuki.

Good to see certain names such as Ero-Senn1n and James are still around.
I've been following Naruto constantly though but didnt have enough time to discuss it.

For the time being a happy new year to all the new guys who dont know me... the ones that forgot about me and the ones that still remember the endless running ANBU guy Mr. Johnny 5.

Looking forward to discuss some new chapters with all of you in 2013. Since it really looks like Naruto is reaching it's climax. All the things we discussed. Naruto as a sensei... well i doubt we will see that with him being so super strong. Plus with this form of alliance i doubt they will return being enemies in the future even after victory..
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