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View Poll Results: Nekomonogatari Black Rating
Perfect 10 31 35.63%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 27 31.03%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 17 19.54%
7 out of 10 : Good 6 6.90%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 2.30%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 1.15%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 2 2.30%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.15%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-01-01, 21:58   Link #41
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Just watched the first episode.

I had not realized Araragi was that smitten with Hanakawa until now. And yes, it's definitely love, not (just) lust. Tsukihi drew the wrong conclusion because her brother just happens to be a giant pervert. He didn't hesitate one second to grab his sister's breasts!
No, I think considering what we know, it just provides a reason for why Araragi cannot love Hanekawa.

Both Karen and Tsukihi provide two definitions for love. Karen provides a more realistic definition... provided that "making babies" bit is just the perverted Araragi way of saying "wanting to start a family". Tsukihi says that love is more "vague", like sort of akin to Old World Romanticism.

However, both Araragi sisters assert that love is normal and simple. From this chronological point in the series, Koyomi isn't aware of Tsubasa's family situation or Black Hanekawa yet, but we know that it makes the relationship between Koyomi and Tsubasa more complex.
With Tsubasa's unpleasant, dysfunctional family and Black Hanekawa nearly killing Koyomi at one point, he would find it uncomfortable to be around her all the time to want to start a family. Karen's definition of love is out.
Even supposing that Tsubasa's family issues raise Koyomi's respect for her because she has to be strong to put up it, it brings in a specific reason why Koyomi would like Tsubasa, which contradicts Tsukihi's definition that love must be vague and simple.


That may be why Koyomi said he wanted to forget or undo Golden Week in that brief wall of text. The events that transpired, from Hanekawa's unpleasant family to having to seeing Black Hanekawa for the first time, may have caused him to fall out of love towards Tsubasa.
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Old 2013-01-01, 23:04   Link #42
Marcus H.
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It's interesting that after lusting over Miss H., Koyomi finds himself revolted by her actions.
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Old 2013-01-01, 23:22   Link #43
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I had no idea Neko Hanekawa had that kind of strength O_O... It really surprised me at what she did to Koyomi.
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Old 2013-01-02, 01:33   Link #44
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This is ****ing awful.

Was hoping for something more like Bake, got something more like Nise 2. Disgustingly terrible. More sister service. Koyomi being overly perverted again. Koyomi talking for 17 mintues about being in love with hanekawa feels irrelevant when he has an established relationship with Hitagi in Bake. The conversations were boring and unfunny.

The 5 minutes of Hanekawa were more or less good, but after 17 minutes of pain I was long gone this episode. What I found revolting wasn't Hanekawa, it was Nisio's writing this episode.
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Old 2013-01-02, 01:58   Link #45
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Halfway done...

Well, that was the most boring shit ever. I'm gonna apologize to fans of Hyouka for saying their show was boring because it has nothing on this. Oh sure, there's Karen's ass (drawn right for a few frames) and Shinobu antics but it seems like that they are just flattening everyone into caricatures via a steamroller.

The only good thing I have to say is that visually it looks good. Too bad they forgot what a BGM is.

Hanekawa's not the most interesting character but her Bakemono arc was satisfactory enough. This sort of retreat with just crap floating around for 45 minutes just doesn't help.

I've never been that big of a fan of Monogatari though parts of it have intrigued me. Unfortunately, when the tail end of Nisemono dampened my spirits by cockblocking me from epic shit, this might just be the end of me and Monogatari depending on the last part. It's unfortunate, really.
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Old 2013-01-02, 02:56   Link #46
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
I've never been that big of a fan of Monogatari though parts of it have intrigued me. Unfortunately, when the tail end of Nisemono dampened my spirits by cockblocking me from epic shit, this might just be the end of me and Monogatari depending on the last part. It's unfortunate, really.
You should still watch Kizu when it gets released on BD/DVD in 2014... (assuming SHAFT actually release it in cinema's this year....) Kizu + Zen is when the series actually hits its highs once again... and yeah people thought Neko Black was bad when it was released in LN, this isn't any hindsight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew C
Nekomonogatari Black is sort of a trainwreck *snip* it's objectively the weakest book in the series. So I started Nekomonogatari White with fear in my heart, but the first damn line proved singularly reassuring -- Hanekawa narrates. By moving things away from Araragi's increasingly cartoonish point of view, he manages to make Hanekawa into a real character again, and actually SHOW us all the things he was vainly trying to tell us in Black.
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Old 2013-01-02, 03:01   Link #47
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Oh yea, Kizu's the one to really wait for.

Very well then.
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Old 2013-01-02, 03:20   Link #48
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
You should still watch Kizu when it gets released on BD/DVD in 2014... (assuming SHAFT actually release it in cinema's this year....) Kizu + Zen is when the series actually hits its highs once again... and yeah people thought Neko Black was bad when it was released in LN, this isn't any hindsight.
Man that is so reassuring to me. T_T

I just want to enjoy this franchise again. Hoping to see Kizu soon.
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Old 2013-01-02, 04:59   Link #49
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Already got to watch the first 2 parts. So far it's been ok. As usual the dialogues are pretty entertaining and of course Koyomi's perverted antics. Waiting on the last half to get subbed lol
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Old 2013-01-02, 05:34   Link #50
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For the naggers... watching this after Nise- without having read Kizu- is an exercise in futility... you will draw many wrong conclusions.

Now to the sister "service". It is part of the story, whether we like it or not... if not, I think it's about time to stop watching, because what some call "service" is an integral part of the story.
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Old 2013-01-02, 06:08   Link #51
Shikijin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
We got to see the origin of Shinobu's love for donuts. She loves them so much she couldn't restrain herself from talking.
It could have also been Oshino imitating her voice to mess with Araragi, although the exclamation "panai no" is the same she used in Nise.

Then again it's not like she is mute, she just lacks the will to talk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffle View Post
I had no idea Neko Hanekawa had that kind of strength O_O... It really surprised me at what she did to Koyomi.
The first cat was the embodiment of Hanekawa's stress from 15 years of life with her parents, so it was the strongest. Araragi couldn't even see its movements, which means a lot since his vampire factor increases his dynamic vision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Koyomi talking for 17 mintues about being in love with hanekawa feels irrelevant when he has an established relationship with Hitagi in Bake.
That part is not irrelevant at all. That part is very important for the development of the story in Neko Black, with Neko Black being a cornerstone of Araragi's chara development along all the first season of Monogatari, including his relationship with Hitagi. In a way, Araragi discussing about when one is in love could apply even to his relationship with Senjougahara.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
You should still watch Kizu when it gets released on BD/DVD in 2014... (assuming SHAFT actually release it in cinema's this year....) Kizu + Zen is when the series actually hits its highs once again... and yeah people thought Neko Black was bad when it was released in LN, this isn't any hindsight.
Please stop with this story of the "weakest link in the franchise". I warn you that you may end up saying the same things even about the next books.

Look, the franchise has its recurrent gags. Araragi being perverted is a staple, for example. In this regard, Bake, Nise and Kuro have all something in common, which is the style the author chose to use for these stories. If you don't find this something entertaining, or you can't even notice what this something is, then this franchise is not for you.
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Old 2013-01-02, 06:26   Link #52
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@Shikijin: It's pointless to point out to people who are shipping for one character over the years that there is a story for the rest

The sooner they realize that this is not a juvenile Hitagi X Koyomi story, the better for them, and as a side-effect for us, that despite personal preferences, are interested in the story told by the author, instead of the one each one of us fantasizes about
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Old 2013-01-02, 06:35   Link #53
Westlo
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Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
Please stop with this story of the "weakest link in the franchise". I warn you that you may end up saying the same things even about the next books.
I highly doubt people who enjoyed Bake but not this or Nise will lump Kizu and Kabuki in the same category as the later. Unless they're complete Hitagi fanboys...
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Old 2013-01-02, 07:24   Link #54
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It was nice while I was watching it, but afterwards I had this weird eerie feeling that I didn't really watch anything. Well, it's just the first episode though. Will chug through the rest later.

And that OP...looks like Akio Watanabe took home a few tricks from his work on the Front Wing OPs. Nice.
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Old 2013-01-02, 07:26   Link #55
Marcus H.
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I really think that Neko Black is called the "weakest link in the franchise" because the content of the story is not that substantial (i.e., much of the things revealed in Neko Black has been revealed or speculated for the longest time during the broadcasts of Bake and Nise). Even in a light novel reader's point of view, Neko Black simply acts as an expansion to the story between Kizu and Bake, which has been revealed a bit during Tsubasa Cat.

For me, I can't disagree with them, because I'm rewatching Tsubasa Cat and I can still remember the exact scenes where the "I'd do anything to keep you quiet" line came in. I also understand how Neko Black only exists to expand on Tsubasa's story pre-Bake, but I don't think that is a bad thing, really.

I'm pretty sure that the latter two parts will be better because little was shown regarding the second encounter between Koyomi and Black Hanekawa.
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Old 2013-01-02, 08:27   Link #56
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I'm not sure what this "weakest link in the franchise" thing is about... Expecting to see something that progresses the story in a prequel is kinda silly.

IIRC, it was implied in Bake (and reinforced in Nise) that Tsubasa expected to eventually become a couple with Koyomi, but then, Hitagi comes out of nowhere and snatches him before Tsubasa could realize what was going on. But why did Tsubasa think that way? That's what I expect to be at least hinted at in the Neko Kuro plot.

I personally find it irrelevant if we know the answer when watching a prequel whether it's in a visual narration or an interactive one like a video game. The point is, what happened before all this? Why are things the way they were when the story started? Neko and Kizu are there to answer those questions of mine.

Last edited by Snuffle; 2013-01-02 at 08:41.
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Old 2013-01-02, 08:35   Link #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
That may be why Koyomi said he wanted to forget or undo Golden Week in that brief wall of text. The events that transpired, from Hanekawa's unpleasant family to having to seeing Black Hanekawa for the first time, may have caused him to fall out of love towards Tsubasa.
I agree with you. I think Araragi was truly in love with Hanekawa, however the events of the golden week changed everything. He started seeing her differently afterwards. Perhaps he realized she wasn't really who he thought she was. Hard to tell for sure at this point... Still waiting for the final two episodes. I'm curious to see what happened between the two of them.

Anyway, what I meant to say earlier is that I had no idea Araragi loved her at some point. I thought he had always only seen her as a friend. One he wouldn't mind having sex with, but still just a friend.
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Old 2013-01-02, 08:40   Link #58
Shikijin
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
I highly doubt people who enjoyed Bake but not this or Nise will lump Kizu and Kabuki in the same category as the later. Unless they're complete Hitagi fanboys...
You seem to assume criticism is somehow rational. I wouldn't count on that too much.
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
I really think that Neko Black is called the "weakest link in the franchise" because the content of the story is not that substantial (i.e., much of the things revealed in Neko Black has been revealed or speculated for the longest time during the broadcasts of Bake and Nise). Even in a light novel reader's point of view, Neko Black simply acts as an expansion to the story between Kizu and Bake, which has been revealed a bit during Tsubasa Cat.
I am a light novel reader, and I will say that Neko Black is not simply an expansion to the story between Kizu and Bake. Neko Black is a prequel that enriches Bake.
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Old 2013-01-02, 09:44   Link #59
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Here it is once again. The unholy union of Nisio and Shinbo is back, and it definitely did not disappoint this time. After Nisemonogatari, I'd say that this is certainly a welcome return to form. Not to say that Nisemonogatari was all that bad, just that it had a different focus. Admittedly, the opening dialogue with Koyomi and Tsukihi was probably closer to Nise than Bake, but I loved it for what it was.

You really can't enjoy a Nisio Isin work if you can't tolerate entire blocks of insane, seemingly irrelevant banter. The appeal is generally in the interplay of ideas through lots and lots dialogue, how supposedly simple concepts are deconstructed, and then rebuilt, and then broken down again. This kind of wordplay and manipulation of ideas is Nisio Isin's forte as an author, I believe. Unfortunately, it's not something that translates well into a visual medium. SHAFT is probably the only studio that could have pulled this one off.

As for the rest of the episode(s), it had a more fast-paced feel that makes it closer to Bake. The action segments there were also quite reminiscent of those in Bake. What's more, we are once again graced by Oshino's presence. His presence was sorely missed. The episode also had some excellent bits of characterization for Tsubasa, which I'm grateful for.

It's these kinds of productions that give me hope that Zaregoto can be adapted effectively into the animation medium, though I'm well aware of the small chance of that happening.
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Old 2013-01-02, 10:23   Link #60
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The reason people think Nekomon:Kuro is the weakest in the series is because the first half is so damn weak. It's a 100 page conversation with a character who seems flown in from the future, mostly about the importance of white underwear. The anime actually manages to improve on that by cutting it short.

I still think it has one of the strongest endings in the series, though. The way it ties into Bakemonogatari gave me goosebumps.
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