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Old 2013-01-02, 08:58   Link #241
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellal View Post
Does anyone know the highest level Kirito reached?

Someone told me, that in the LN - it mentioned him being over 90 about the time when him and Asuna got married in SAO. But, if that were true - why did he get wooped against the scythe boss in the hidden underground dungeon at the town of beginnings?
Kirito stated the boss was easily in the 90's, but even so - he got pwned.

I'm pretty sure his safety margin of 10 levels would of definitely given him the advantage then.
He was level 96 by the end. To raid against a boss, the leaders of the raid required at least 10 levels above the current floor. The Scythe boss was a mid-90's equivalent floor boss, by his estimate. That means Kirito was at the same level, give or take. He's not a tank, and there were only two players there. Raids usually have close to 50.

To put it in perspective, Nicholas the Renegade appeared when they were on floor 49 (though it appeared on a lower floor). Kirito was level 70, and had to use every single one of his healing items, and he still ended up with his HP in the red, after fighting it for I think three hours.
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Old 2013-01-02, 09:37   Link #242
Esebian
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
So that's what the audience wants, huh? A protagonist so overpowered that not even the final boss can't touch him? A protagonist who only loses to a minor character we will never see again?

Granted, it's impossible to beat a GM without the system's help OR the player exceeding the system (through hacking or whatever) in real life MMO's unless the GM himself removes his invincibility flag, I'm going to give him that.

Deus Ex Machina or not, it does make sense plot-wise. But really? So that's what people want now? An protagonist that can't be beaten by anyone, even by the most powerful entity of the setting

Okay, who doesn't want that kind of protagonist? But defeating EVERYONE in one shot, including the Final Boss? Come on.
Well as Genji has already adressed your first sentence I'll leave it at that.

Quote:
A protagonist who only loses to a minor character we will never see again?
Hmm, how should sb answer this question without spoilering everything?

Well with the least amount of spoiler, he doesn't win all his fights. If a second/third (that counting is somehow quite troubling for many people, so I use both xD) season will contain all LN Volumes I think of, you will see him loosing fair and square without any tricks.

Also what is a minor character for you?

I mean what was already shown is that Kayaba has quite much influence even after his defeat, so imo he can't be considered a real minor character.

I mean ofc he is no main character but he has definitly more revelance to the story that you are giving him.

If you mean sb else I offer my apologies, but then you should make it clearer who you refer to...

Quote:
But defeating EVERYONE in one shot, including the Final Boss? Come on.
The problem is: if he didn't defeat him with his first try, he would be dead...
This is no shounen series in which the protag can challenge the antag again and again, getting better and stronger everytime, he has one try and if he fails his life will end.

In ALO he died while trying to conquer the World Tree alone, so your argument is already misproven by that scene, as he clearly didn't defeat everything with his first try.

But well that would be nitpicking, taking one scene out of the whole anime for counterarguing, but the point is:

Did you see him taking on sb equally strong totally on his own and winning?

The only times he accomplished that was in Red-Nosed Reindeer (RNR) and although the anime didn't emphasise it, that fight was just as close as the fight vs Gleameyes. Also that boss was no stage/floor boss he was more like an extra boss and those tend to be much weaker compared to the real bosses.

The other time was his fight vs Eugene, which he more or less only won because Eugene wasn't experienced in fighting against sb who is using 2 swords. In skill and strenth both were equal (which is btw another point which goes against Kirito being unreachable while being fair and square)

In all of his other major fights he needed that help from his friends to win:

Asuna, Klein, Agil and all other front liners for the first boss, Asuna and Klein + his guild + the army for Gleameyes, Asuna for Kuradeel, front liners for Skullreaper, Asuna again for Kayaba, Sugu in his fight in the cave, Sugu for fleeing after being defeated in his first attempt to conquer the World Tree, Sugu + Recon + reinforcements from Sylph and Cait Sith troops in his second attempt to conquer it, Kayaba in beating Sugou and with spoilers I could let the list go on and on...

The point is: He was never alone...he didn't beat everyone because he is just so overpowered and awesome, he beat them because of his friends and people helping him.

It was the over way round instead: whenever he tries to challenge sth on his own he fails as seen in ALO 2 times and to some extent aswell in SAO.

Although I have already written this, Kirito is by no means your hero or knight in a shining armor but many people tend to overlook this out of whatever reasons.
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Old 2013-01-02, 12:16   Link #243
judasmartel
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It's clear to me now that he didn't earn most of his wins by himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esebian View Post
Also what is a minor character for you?

I mean what was already shown is that Kayaba has quite much influence even after his defeat, so imo he can't be considered a real minor character.

I mean ofc he is no main character but he has definitly more revelance to the story that you are giving him.

If you mean sb else I offer my apologies, but then you should make it clearer who you refer to...
I meant Sugu, but then again...
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Old 2013-01-02, 13:17   Link #244
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
It's clear to me now that he didn't earn most of his wins by himself.



I meant Sugu, but then again...
You mean Sugou? Sugu would be short for Suguha.

And "Final boss can't touch him" wouldn't be accurate for Sugou either. Kirito couldn't touch Sugou before Kayaba intervened, allowing Kirito to even the score and remove Sugou's admin powers. Sure after that Sugou couldn't hit Kirito, but that's because Sugou isn't a gamer and never tried to fight in the game before, nor did he expect to. Still, the true final battle was in the hospital parking lot, where Sugou scored a gash on Kirito's arm that likely required stiches, a cut on Kirito's cheek, and nearly killed Kirito while Kirito was busy panicking, and only failed due to his aim being thrown off by the after affects of what Kirito did to him in VR.

So Kirito was in very real danger from the final boss, and took some very real injuries from him.
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Old 2013-01-02, 16:32   Link #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellal View Post
Kirito stated the boss was easily in the 90's, but even so - he got pwned.
It seems the GM had toughened the BOSS fights... Its not unusual... He found out that the game is being clearer easily that why he modified the BOSS fights.
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Old 2013-01-02, 17:23   Link #246
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
So that's what the audience wants, huh? A protagonist so overpowered that not even the final boss can't touch him? A protagonist who only loses to a minor character we will never see again?

Granted, it's impossible to beat a GM without the system's help OR the player exceeding the system (through hacking or whatever) in real life MMO's unless the GM himself removes his invincibility flag, I'm going to give him that.

Deus Ex Machina or not, it does make sense plot-wise. But really? So that's what people want now? An protagonist that can't be beaten by anyone, even by the most powerful entity of the setting?

Okay, who doesn't want that kind of protagonist? But defeating EVERYONE in one shot, including the Final Boss? Come on.
It's never about power levels. Anyone who draws a numbered chart from weak to strong, and carefully places the protagonist as well as everyone else on it, and maybe characters from other series, and then proceeds to whine because said protagonist is too high or too low is an idiot.

What everyone - or almost everyone - wants to see? Likable characters and happy ends. We want to see will, cleverness, friendship or any combination thereof triumph over injustice. We want to see compassion rewarded, faith repaid, and evil punished in the end, even if the path to get there is tragic, full of pain and loss.

Oh, sure, we like the author to be clever. To mix things up, matching a manipulative villain against a hero who will tell him to talk to the fist, or a domineering superman with a god complex brought down by a clever roguish hero. But if the story isn't about that? That's hardly a deal breaker.
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Old 2013-01-02, 18:29   Link #247
judasmartel
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Oh, sure, we like the author to be clever. To mix things up, matching a manipulative villain against a hero who will tell him to talk to the fist, or a domineering superman with a god complex brought down by a clever roguish hero. But if the story isn't about that? That's hardly a deal breaker.
It is to me. But I guess both plots are fast becoming cliche. SAO must be the best story ever. [/sarcasm]
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Old 2013-01-02, 18:43   Link #248
Anh_Minh
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What, you can only watch something if it's the best story ever? 100% cliché-free? Then yes, you've definitely watched the wrong anime with SAO. It happens. You should have asked earlier, though. While good or bad are subjective, any novel reader could have told you it wasn't that original before the first episode ever aired.
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Old 2013-01-02, 18:52   Link #249
judasmartel
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I was just thinking that "manipulative villain" and "domineering superman with god complex" must be so cliche villains that if people really considered SAO the best story ever, no such villains could exist in the show.

But then again, since everything has already been done before...
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Old 2013-01-03, 01:04   Link #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
So that's what the audience wants, huh? A protagonist so overpowered that not even the final boss can't touch him? A protagonist who only loses to a minor character we will never see again?
..........o_o I don't really care that he has lots of power. I plain just find him adorable in so many ways.

One loss is still a loss. That's all I need to show he's still a human being and not a god.
But he lost to Sugou in the game. Kayaba's admin powers just saved his ass at the last second. XD
He also would have lost to Sugou in real life....but luckily enough, Sugou didn't think that rough-housing in cold weather would fog up his glasses.

........lol whatta idiot.....even I knew that!
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Old 2013-01-03, 01:21   Link #251
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Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
He also would have lost to Sugou in real life....but luckily enough, Sugou didn't think that rough-housing in cold weather would fog up his glasses.

........lol whatta idiot.....even I knew that!
As a note, it was the lingering effects phantom pain from Kirito's eye stabbing maneuver that was messing up his vision, rather than foggy glasses. You can see how blood shot and messed up it looks at one point.
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Old 2013-01-04, 02:07   Link #252
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Oh yeah. I forgot he stabbed him in the eye too....

Bet the snow didn't help though.
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