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Old 2013-01-02, 23:23   Link #1
judasmartel
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Need help for an attempt with a sports story...

I'm not sure if this the right place to post this, but here's what I noticed from every basketball anime I have ever watched and heard about:

- Most of them are boys' basketball, with only one (that I know of) girls' basketball Ro-Kyu-Bu. But the problem with the latter is that it's elementary girls' ball, so it's kinda hard to take seriously, even though I liked it.
- No main protagonist so far played Center, but Hanamichi Sakuragi is close enough at Power Forward (he was prolly bumped up to C once Akagi graduated), and there's an increasing number of protagonists playing guards.
-- Kazuhiko Aikawa from Dear Boys is a Small Forward.
-- Tomoka Minato of RKB and the MC of the manga Cross Over are Shooting Guards, although both exhibit skill sets of the Combo Guard (Point Guard + Shooting Guard)
-- Tetsuya Kuroko has no officially listed position, but exhibits the passing abilities of a Point Guard.
- Some b-ball anime tend to have hero teams with a weak bench (hell, the hero teams of Dear Boys and RKB started off with ABSOLUTELY NO BENCH), although from what I have heard, some teams from KnB have quite the deep benches.

I may have missed some other b-ball shows out there, so feel free to add if you like.

My basic idea is to make one of the protagonists play Center. I am inclined to make him/her the main lead, but I want to know first:

1. How the game differs between the boys and the girls aside from the fact that the boys' game is far more athletic than the girls';
2. How the middle school game differs from the high school game and the college game;
3. How the story differs for offensive-minded hero teams from that of defensive-oriented hero teams;
4. How the story differs for a strong bench from that of a weak bench;
5. How the story differs for a Center MC from a non-Center MC, and;
6. In the case of girls' ball, how the story differs for a male coach from that of a female coach (as much as possible, I want to limit the coach's age to the point where I can write him/her as a pretty good player in his/her own right who can still keep up with the younger generation).

So from that, I intend to write him/her as somebody who starts off not feeling happy about his/her size, mostly because it hindered him/her from leading a normal life. Until someone from the varsity team, preferably the captain or the coach, discovers his/her potential and offers him/her the chance to join the team. From there, he/she trains the basics, but handles it pretty well, more like Ippo Makunochi with boxing and much unlike Hanamichi Sakuragi (who at first sulked at the idea of having to train the basics).

The first conflict starts when this Center character still struggles on his/her shooting (including free throws), so the coach decides to have her specialize on post shots, rebounding and shot-blocking for the meantime.

I am currently doing research about the average height and weight of anime characters to make sure I don't make serious errors such as a PG who looks too big or a Center who looks too small.

Also, I am currently doing research on basketball in general, because I'm having a problem creating interesting opposing teams without references from the NBA.

Last question: Is it a good or bad idea to base my teams from current or legendary NBA teams? For example, is it good or bad if I base my hero team from the Magic/Bird-era Lakers/Celtics/Pistons, the Jordan-era Chicago Bulls, the Shaq-Kobe Lakers, or from the 2004 Detroit Pistons championship team?

If somebody can help me out on this, I would appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Last edited by judasmartel; 2013-01-02 at 23:47.
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Old 2013-01-02, 23:44   Link #2
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Let me ask this first. Is this thread focused on sport in general or only centered around basketball? Reading between the thread's title and the OP's description seem don't fit each other.
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Old 2013-01-02, 23:46   Link #3
judasmartel
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Centered around basketball. Tried to ask anyone from TVTropes about this, but no luck so far.

Another one of my insane ideas is a translation of Prince of Tennis characters into a basketball story, so that the hero team would look like this:

- Ryoma -> Allen Iverson-type SG
- Tezuka/Inui -> Larry Bird-type PG
- Fuji -> Jason Kidd-type PG
- Kaido -> Dennis Rodman-type PF
- Momoshiro -> SF/PF
- Kawamura -> Center
- Oishi -> 3pt shooter
- Eiji -> Derrick Rose-type Combo Guard
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Old 2013-01-03, 01:45   Link #4
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The story sounds interesting though I don't know squat about Basketball. All I can do is point at the wikipedia for basketball rules.
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Old 2013-01-03, 01:53   Link #5
judasmartel
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Well, I know my share of basketball rules, I just need to research some more of the deep stuff. Like how high the scores should be, for example. My research indicates that U-17 tournament scores for any gender vary like crazy, although but I guess the acceptable average score ranges between 60-70. Defensive teams would hold their opponents to about 40, really fast offense teams would easily score 80+.

I actually thought Shohoku was a high-offense team, they can easily score 80+ in 40 minutes every time, save when they're up against Shoyo which held them to just 62, 22 in the first half.

I am so cautious of asking about this in basketball forums, because everyone there is talking about men's basketball. I do like to consult some details about boys' ball from there, but I don't know where to consult things about girls' ball.

See, if there's one thing I want to avoid while writing this, it would be people telling me I don't know anything about basketball, like they said about Seo Kouji (author of Suzuka and KimIruMachi) once the run of his own basketball manga Cross Over was finished.

If anyone knows some forum where I can consult more about this, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

EDIT: Wait. Maybe I could ask KnB fans about this? Sure, KnB turned me off for its outrageous physics-defying moves, but it's my best shot, considering most SD fans have gone older.
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Old 2013-01-03, 05:03   Link #6
judasmartel
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Okay, let's talk about other sports atm.

I was told about Princess Nine, which was all about girls' baseball. What do you guys think of it?
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Old 2013-01-03, 09:13   Link #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justcansin View Post
yeah,The story sounds interesting though I don't know squat about Basketball. All I can do is point at the wikipedia for basketball rules.
What an odd echo ....

Not heard of Princess Nine but it sounds like something I ought to look up.
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Old 2013-01-05, 00:56   Link #8
judasmartel
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I have decided to make this a female sports story because females doing sports need more love and there are a lot of male sports stories anyway.

So I have two questions:

1. How does middle school sports differ from high school sports (in general, not just basketball)?
2. In a region where the average height for females is 5'2" (158 cm), is it beyond the realistic realm to have somebody who is 5'8"-5'10" by middle school age and 6-foot or over by high school age? My only references so far are Risa Koizumi (172 cm or 5'8" at high school age) and some characters from Mahou Sensei Negima (Kaede, Chachamaru, and Mana are known to be over 180 cm, also at around high school age).
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Old 2013-01-05, 01:05   Link #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
I have decided to make this a female sports story because females doing sports need more love and there are a lot of male sports stories anyway.

So I have two questions:

1. How does middle school sports differ from high school sports (in general, not just basketball)?
2. In a region where the average height for females is 5'2" (158 cm), is it beyond the realistic realm to have somebody who is 5'8"-5'10" by middle school age and 6-foot or over by high school age? My only references so far are Risa Koizumi (172 cm or 5'8" at high school age) and some characters from Mahou Sensei Negima (Kaede, Chachamaru, and Mana are known to be over 180 cm, also at around high school age).
I'll assume this is set in Japan.
1) Other than smaller facilities for smaller people, not much.
2) Its very unusual but then most stories incorporate something unusual to make them interesting. You'd get a lot of natural story elements just from the issues a tall girl in a homogeneous society has to deal with (clothing, boys, teasing, the bit in AzuDa where everyone uses Sakaki as the "home flag" in big crowds).
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Old 2013-01-05, 03:15   Link #10
judasmartel
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How do sports story authors make the opposing teams interesting? I already have most members of my hero team built out, but I don't have any references or bases for the opposing teams aside from the old and new NBA teams.

I liked how SD and PoT fleshed out their respective non-opposing teams.

Spoiler for SD:


Spoiler for PoT:


So yeah, underdog themes are really prevalent in sports shows, huh?
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Old 2013-01-06, 22:53   Link #11
judasmartel
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So I have researched Japan's Under-17 and Under-19 Women's teams this morning. I was quite terrified at the U17 team because most them don't look like girls at all (except maybe Japanese-African PF Evelyn Mawuli). Badly needed Brain Bleach after that one.

However, I was glad that it came in the form of the U19 team, which had a lot of cute girls on the roster.

The U17 team had a lot of bigs (tallest is at 6'0 at around 3rd yr HS age), while the U19 team didn't have that many bigs (the tallest one stands at 5'11 at around college age) but they still placed 4th in the 2012 U19 FIBA Women's World Championship.

So this should be a good reference point for my story, right?
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Old 2013-01-07, 18:09   Link #12
judasmartel
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Some weird thoughts I had this morning:

- I was thinking of a male character who takes notice of the main character pretty early in the story. Two ways to write him:

-- The childhood friend who's struggling to get into the high school boys' basketball team (he was cut out of basketball teams before because he's too small and doesn't seem to have the required skill level for his position). He's in a different class from the MC, probably in the same class as the Super Rookie to facilitate a little teasing.

-- The sports nerd nice guy who never got the chance to play any sport due to some physical condition. He's in the same class as the MC, and is probably the first guy to look at her beyond her size, and actually admires her for being such a determined person to weather all the odds her size offers, while he's struggling to live with a disease that prevented him from playing any sport forever. So he befriends the MC and tries to help her with anything he might know. The problem I had with this character is that he might come across to some readers as a weak male character.

-- Either way, I don't want him to come off as a serious love interest, because I want to focus the story more on the MC's progress with the team. I just want to write him as someone she can depend on for help, especially about basketball and on how to handle being different from the others.

- Two of MC's friends who may or may not end up with the team. I am more inclined to include them in the team, mainly because I can't think of anyone else to put there. However, they will only get to play very limited time in official games while their friend (the MC) is gaining more playing time. But still, if I am going that route, I want to write them as capable of playing the game when needed, especially when the other members of the team got injured or too tired to continue playing.

tl;dr: So, what do you think?

- Childhood Friend or Nerdy Nice Guy? Or both for a nice Love Triangle sub-plot?
- MC's friends on the team or NOT on the team?

Last edited by judasmartel; 2013-01-07 at 19:06.
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Old 2013-01-07, 18:53   Link #13
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Personally, I like the sports nerd nice guy idea better - he's more just seems more likely to be able to provide real advice. If you write him in the spirit of the protagonist in Katawa Shoujo I don't think he'll come off as weak. It could create some opportunities for her to save his butt and vice versa - creating a solid bond if not romance.

Nothing wrong with the two friends on the team (actually somewhat likely since Japanese tend to isolate themselves to their "club" and "classroom") - You would want to make sure they stand out in their own way (e.g. chaotic on the court, brilliant but undependable, accident-prone, team clown, etc).
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Old 2013-01-07, 19:11   Link #14
judasmartel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Personally, I like the sports nerd nice guy idea better - he's more just seems more likely to be able to provide real advice. If you write him in the spirit of the protagonist in Katawa Shoujo I don't think he'll come off as weak. It could create some opportunities for her to save his butt and vice versa - creating a solid bond if not romance.
Thank you.

Quote:
Nothing wrong with the two friends on the team (actually somewhat likely since Japanese tend to isolate themselves to their "club" and "classroom") - You would want to make sure they stand out in their own way (e.g. chaotic on the court, brilliant but undependable, accident-prone, team clown, etc).
This actually fits my idea of a coach who likes to substitute his/her guys often, so everyone comes back into the game fresh, kinda like good old Utah Jazz' Jerry Sloan.

Friend A is more of a hyperactive type, while Friend B is more of a reserved type.

Okay, another one: Male or female coach, and how old should the coach be? I am more inclined to have a 30+ year-old female coach with international game experience, as well as being capable of handling even the roughest players as a coach, but is still considered a rookie coach by most HS coaches, who are usually 40+ year-old males.

Last edited by judasmartel; 2013-01-07 at 19:24.
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Old 2013-01-08, 00:36   Link #15
Vexx
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I like your 30-something femme coach idea simply because she's more likely to have a clue in a room full of teenage girls drowning in estrogen angst.
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Old 2013-01-09, 00:37   Link #16
judasmartel
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Hmm... While I was doing an outline for this story (to make things better organized), I suddenly found out that I don't really know what exactly is the MC's goal. I know she wants something to get out of her problems concerning her size and I know she would grow stronger through the plot, but what exactly is her goal?

I guessed that for starters, I should know what problems do tall girls experience. I know they are pretty much ostracized for being different, but I don't exactly know how.

Spoiler for RL Experience:


Any ideas?

P.S. Does Japanese inter-school tourneys follow the same format as Slam Dunk: a modified single-elimination tournament with the Final Four competing in a round-robin tournament? Or is it single-elimination all the way?
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Old 2013-01-09, 14:18   Link #17
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Often its just "tall girls have trouble finding dates" and "freak" accusations. Other than that, they live in a world where they have trouble finding clothes/shoes to fit, everything is constructed for someone smaller, people automatically tend to look/stare at them. The "Sakaki" meme in AzuDa is a good starting point. The lead female in Love*Complex also has tall issues.

No idea on the sports angles.
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Old 2013-01-11, 21:06   Link #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
-- The sports nerd nice guy who never got the chance to play any sport due to some physical condition. He's in the same class as the MC, and is probably the first guy to look at her beyond her size, and actually admires her for being such a determined person to weather all the odds her size offers, while he's struggling to live with a disease that prevented him from playing any sport forever. So he befriends the MC and tries to help her with anything he might know. The problem I had with this character is that he might come across to some readers as a weak male character.
I personally think a major injury would better fit for a sports story. A car/traffic accident that leaves him with a slight limp or a back injury. Or even a basketball incident, a cousin of mine tore major knee ligaments by landing awkwardly when going for a rebound in middle school.

Last edited by Dilla; 2013-01-11 at 21:57.
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Old 2013-01-11, 23:11   Link #19
judasmartel
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Hmm... I'm thinking of that as well, but I want to make this guy look real smart. It should fit the "knows about sports but can't play it" character I have in mind. However, I think the accident angle has been used quite a lot.
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Old 2013-01-15, 22:16   Link #20
judasmartel
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I was browsing through discussions about the height and weight of girls in anime, and then I thought, since I'm writing basketball, these stats are pretty important, and there are different fitness levels between girl idols and athletes. Idols are generally thin, while athletes need to be better stacked, although it's not uncommon for fighting anime to have idol-sized girls, some of them close-range fighters, some ranged fighters and magicians.

I came across the Body Mass Index (BMI) measurement several years back, but some people are not confident with it, because it does not take extra muscle mass into account, so there is a possibility that perfectly fit people (especially athletes) can be considered overweight under this measurement. However, since most anime girls range between 17-19 BMI anyway, I suppose I shouldn't worry too much about how my characters would look.

But anyways, here's my current roster of the hero team. No names yet, I have to research a Japanese name database for those. Please feel free to comment, but I want to know if these stats are good or I have to increase the weights by 1-2 kg or something like that.

# POS cm kg ft-in lb BMI Year Notes
4 SG 168 53 5-6 116 18.8 3 Captain
5 PG 160 48 5-3 105 18.8 3 Vice-Captain
6 SF 170 56 5-7 123 19.4 3 Manager
7 SG 164 47 5-5 103 17.5 3 Prankster
8 SF 172 55 5-8 121 18.6 3 Enforcer
9 SF 174 57 5-9 125 18.8 2 Hot-Blooded
10 PF 178 60 5-10 132 18.9 2 Stoic type
11 PG 158 45 5-2 99 18.0 2 Genius
12 C 183 65 6-0 143 19.4 1 Main Character
13 PG 155 42 5-1 92 17.5 1 Super Rookie
14 PG 162 49 5-4 107 18.7 1 Shy type
15 SG 166 51 5-5 112 18.5 1 Dreamer type

Spoiler for POS Keys for the uninitiated:

Last edited by judasmartel; 2013-01-15 at 23:42.
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