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Old 2013-01-02, 18:27   Link #1281
Myssa Rei
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Metro Manila, Philippines
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Churchills obviously do better in maps where you don't have to do a lot of cross-country moving. Or climb hills.

Interesting discovery we had yesterday while I was platooning with Atsuki and Homuhomu: while using my ELC, it usually bumps their tanks (a Centurion I and a IS 8) to the top of the list, but if I use one of my tier VIIs (Panther, Tiger), I usually just end up at the bottom of the list.

Speaking of the ELC, I've found that as long as I resist the urge to WAAAAAAAAAGH MUST GO FASTA it's very devastating as a support tank. Managed to take out a Lowe and an IS for example during one match.
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Old 2013-01-02, 18:59   Link #1282
Strigon 13
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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The bad thing about credit making, is that in every patch WG has decreased the quantity of money making on non premium tanks, the tier 5-7 has seen the worse.

As an example, in 7.5 with my Pz 3/4 I used to make between 15k-20k counting repairs & ammo, with only 2 kills and 3 damages. Now in 8.2 making the same quantity of money requires: 1.- not being hit by nothing, and 2.- kill more than 3 tanks or get at least top gun.

Anyway... on an unrelated note, Hummel + Top Gun + Gold Round + 100% crew = enemies calling you hacker.
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Old 2013-01-02, 20:24   Link #1283
LoweGear
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Erm, no. The front armour of the Churchill series don't count for much; I should know, I run the LL Churchill all the time, and I always get a kick out of putting round after round of the 6 pdr right through the front of Churchill Is and penning every time.
Depends on which variant of the Churchill. It's important to remember that for any tank, the listed armor values are always for the MAXIMUM armor on that side, and that different parts of the tank on that side will have variable armor values. On the Churchill III (the premium tank) for instance, the listed 176mm of frontal armor actually only consists of that square armor plate covering the machinegun port, with everything else on the front having only half the thickness, and the same for the Churchill I for its 85mm of armor. There's nothing odd about penetrating a Churchill I from the front with something like a 6-pdr gun, especially if you know where to aim.

On the Churchill VII and Black Prince meanwhile, the entire vertical plate covering both driver and machinegunner is the 152mm of armor, which means that the Churchill VII (with upgrade turret) and the Black Prince have an overall better armor scheme than the III or the I. There was this memorable match I had where I managed to charge against an SU-100, a Hellcat, a KV-1S and a Sherman simultaneously on a single lane on Cliff and take 0 damage from them (the only damage I got in that match was from an SU-26).

One of the best ways then to protect yourself when using the VII or the BP is to find a partial hull-down position, where the lower half of your hull is covered. That way, only the heavily-armored driver's plate and turret is exposed to enemy fire, allowing you to take full advantage of the armor. This isn't always possible of course, and so you have to have faith in your armor and hope your enemy doesn't know where to shoot you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post

I don't look into weakpoints. I feel like it's cheating, and it's just not as fun for me.
Knowledge is power though, and knowing where a tank's weakspots, especially the frontal weakspots, are is a good way to save ammo while dealing maximum damage. This is especially true if you're facing tanks starting Tier 7 and up, with each shell becoming more expensive per shot and your RoF going down, and so you'd want to have every shot count.

Even if you don't research the weakspots, it's quite easy to find where they are using the ingame penetration marker.
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Old 2013-01-02, 20:54   Link #1284
willx
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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^ I am actually very shocked that you manage to do as well as you do with the Churchill VII without using the sidescrape maneuver. Going hulldown in the Church VII with it's flat armor means you'll get penned by most tanks at Tier 6, or you should at least. Sidescrape is by far generally viewed as the most effective way to utilise the entire Churchill series. The only exception may be the Black Prince, with over 200mm effective armor around much of its turret.

And I stand by my stance that the Churchill VII is broken with regards to its hitbox and its mudguard vulnerability. This issue with regards to its hitbox was apparently a problem previously with the Maus as well.

EDIT: Then again, looking at your stats .. you're just better than me by far, which doesn't change the fact that .. adjusting for skill, the Churchill VII is still busted!
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Old 2013-01-02, 21:15   Link #1285
LoweGear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
^ I am actually very shocked that you manage to do as well as you do with the Churchill VII without using the sidescrape maneuver. Going hulldown in the Church VII with it's flat armor means you'll get penned by most tanks at Tier 6, or you should at least. Sidescrape is by far generally viewed as the most effective way to utilise the entire Churchill series. The only exception may be the Black Prince, with over 200mm effective armor around much of its turret.
Many Tier 6 guns actually have difficulty penetrating the Churchill VII at the front, with only high-end TD guns at that tier being capable of consistently penetrating the 152mm front of a Churchill VII. Hell, some Tier VII guns have difficulty penetrating 152mm of armor due to having minimum penetration rolls below that number. Frontally, a VII is most vulnerable when its lower hull is exposed, which has much thinner armor, and most of the time I get killed frontally from Tier VI tanks it's always from getting said lower hull hit, or gunning after my MG and driver's ports at close range. Or as you pointed out, hits to the tracks, though it's 50/50 in my experience.
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Old 2013-01-02, 22:16   Link #1286
willx
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Some days .. you just can't win. Enemy victory by 1% HP capping Pz38nA.

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Last edited by willx; 2013-01-02 at 23:16.
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Old 2013-01-02, 22:54   Link #1287
aly_angelflight
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Stupid teammate... Don't blame your death at the hands of the enemy Matilda on the arty, who was being fired upon by a TD and thus occupied with not getting hit.
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Old 2013-01-02, 23:42   Link #1288
Sumeragi
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
Now, I'm a "theorycraft"er and absolute geek when it comes to mechanics and info dumps .. and I recently spotted this thread: http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index....g-vs-brawling/

Going through WoT's battle mechanics again has gotten me thinking about XP distribution and the benefits about long range and close range fighting. It seems being great/good at close range brawling against enemies you spot yourself is the fastest way to build up XP and credits! This might not be news to people but it was a definite reminder for me!
I choose the best of both worlds: I'm the one who spots and snipes.
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Old 2013-01-03, 12:24   Link #1289
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
I choose the best of both worlds: I'm the one who spots and snipes.
=_=

I'm not sure facing an entire front by yourself in a StuH configuration is considered sniping. Nor is combat within 200 meters. (XP bonus! Apparently it is stated to be a small bonus, but some recent testing seems to indicate it is significant..) Admit it, you're brawling!

The description in the wiki is unclear on this point, but it seems to state that if you are doing damage to a target that others are spotting for you, you get "full XP" .. although recently some individuals have been trying to test this and anecdotally it seems to not be true.

Alongside this random bit of info, in relation to the Sidescrape discussion previously, here's a nice visual reminder of why angling is important. This is based on 100mm of armor vs. "effective armor"



Impact Angle / Effective Armour Thickness
0 - 100%
10 - 101.54%
20 - 106.42%
30 - 115.47%
40 - 130.54%
50 - 155.57%
60 - 200%
70 - 292.38%
> 70 - Ricochet
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Old 2013-01-03, 12:27   Link #1290
Sumeragi
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
I actually started using the L/70 for my StuG III. Figured I should try actual sniping instead of being a sledgehammer. I still keep my aggressive stance, but toned it down a bit so I'm not completely upfront all the time.

Result: I earn around 15,000 credits average.
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Old 2013-01-03, 13:38   Link #1291
Marina2
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Join Date: Aug 2006
My run with Panzer IV today was one of the worst. Somehow I was on the lost side for 10+ times in row LOL

However, in one match after that my team won, and I got 5 kills, earning 19k money and 889 exp. (I should get more if I use 105mm derp gun ,but I just like to use 75mm L/48 more). It was one of the best result for me.

By the way, Is BDR G1B a bad heavy tank or something? My panzer 4 can stand in front of it and exchange a bullet with it. Most of my bullet will go through its front armor (if I fire at a right spot), while almost all of its bullet will do no damage (or ricochet) to me. This stuation happen a lot.
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Old 2013-01-03, 13:42   Link #1292
Endless Knackwurst
Clumsy Valkyrie Pilot
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
By the way, Is BDR G1B a bad heavy tank or something?
Gun decent, armor and speed... not.
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Old 2013-01-03, 13:53   Link #1293
Sumeragi
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Finally managed to play. I have no idea how I got the following battles given that I was playing somewhat absent-mindedly since I needed to think about some projects and other work-related stuff:


T-25








Panther II





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Old 2013-01-03, 14:00   Link #1294
Tak
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Even Sumeragi is enjoying the T-25 it seems.

I love that tank, its in every way superior to my PzIV, which I sold after transferring my beefy crew.

- Tak
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Old 2013-01-03, 14:09   Link #1295
Sumeragi
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I'm the one who enjoyed it earlier than you
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Old 2013-01-03, 14:16   Link #1296
willx
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Even Sumeragi is enjoying the T-25 it seems.

I love that tank, its in every way superior to my PzIV, which I sold after transferring my beefy crew.

- Tak
Hey now, you go too far! Don't you have love for your Pz4?

Then again, I play the Pz4 completely different than you, in that I'm always going around brawling with the 10.5 derp .. which I've gotten very comfortable in. I have the most Top Guns and Radley Walters in the Pz4 out of all my tanks.. Very close to getting a Pool's too (10 kill medal)!
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Old 2013-01-03, 14:19   Link #1297
Tak
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Neu Herzogtum Zeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
I'm the one who enjoyed it earlier than you
Yeah, but I bought it for half-price!

And I have insurance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
Hey now, you go too far! Don't you have love for your Pz4?
Well, I did, until I discovered the T-25

Better pen, sloped armor, higher speed... pure friggin' joy!

Then there is the RAM-II, which is the cutest lil' thing... EVER!

But I don't derp, its just not my thing.

- Tak (Now working towards a secret British tank)
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Get strong like ROCK! Not weak like Barack! Putincize now!

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Last edited by Tak; 2013-01-03 at 14:32.
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Old 2013-01-03, 14:37   Link #1298
Sumeragi
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
I got my first Tier X kill:





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Old 2013-01-03, 14:44   Link #1299
RRW
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Join Date: May 2010
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Nice!

Remind me to my first Tier X kill with my AMX 12t. soo good
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Old 2013-01-03, 15:03   Link #1300
Endless Knackwurst
Clumsy Valkyrie Pilot
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
I think I slightly preceded all of you to the T-25. I do like it for hull-down and travel speed (though the acceleration isn't great), but it still turns like a bus.

Getting very close to the L/100 gun in the Panther. Still feel inadequate for Tier VII with the L/75; got a decent score on Serene Coast because I got isolated up in the NW corner of the map and ended up spotting with binoculars for the rest of my team. Actual shooting involved getting a kill on a T29 after shooting it 14 times from the sides and above, which was kinda depressing.
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