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Old 2013-01-03, 21:35   Link #261
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
We were shown him caring for like, 2 minutes before Raditz showed up. After that, the only father Gohan had was Piccolo.
Umm...maybe I should remind you guys that in my original post, I called Goku more “caring” to his family only when it’s compared to Vegeta (in the context of becoming Vegitto/Gogeta). Plus, I'm just kidding with that post .
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Old 2013-01-03, 21:41   Link #262
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by sky black swordman View Post
Goku and Vegeta state that Gohan was a better fighter as a child.
Vegeta stated that Gohan was stronger when he fought Cell, not that he was a better fighter at that time. Mystic form was Gohan's absolute peak in terms of every stat (i.e. confidence, battle smarts, fighting skills, strength, speed, etc.). He was just simply outclassed by Gotenks Buu.
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Last edited by Blackbeard D. Kuma; 2013-01-03 at 22:06.
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Old 2013-01-03, 23:11   Link #263
sky black swordman
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Originally Posted by Marikina View Post
Eh, I doubt it. Like I said even if that were true Buutenks still had Piccolo's mind and regardless of how much training he did Gohan's never going to be as skilled as that. Combined with a significant power disparity and he never really stood a chance.
It is as said @amaterasu4.
And don't forget the fact Gohan not only had Piccolo's training, but also Goku's training as well. Remember Goku was training Gohan to be his successor and new protector of the Earth. So Goku train him to be a better fighter then himself. In a sence Gohan should have been a better fighter then both.

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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Vegeta stated that Gohan was stronger when he fought Cell, not that he was a better fighter at that time. Mystic form was Gohan's absolute peak in terms of every stat (i.e. confidence, battle smarts, fighting skills, strength, speed, etc.). He was just simply outclassed by Gotenks Buu.
In the anime Goku and Vegeta (while watching his fight with Dabura) stated that Gohan had lost fighting sense or intuition. While in the manga it was different, Vegeta as you stated said Gohan was stronger as a kid. His lack of training hurt his fighting skills. No matter how you look at it Gohan as a child was a better fighter.

Also the Mystic form was only a power up. I don't recall it ever stating that it increased every one of his status to their peak.
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Last edited by sky black swordman; 2013-01-03 at 23:37.
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Old 2013-01-03, 23:35   Link #264
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by sky black swordman View Post
In the anime Goku and Vegeta (while watching his fight with Dabura) stated that Gohan had lost fighting sense or intuition. While in the manga is was different Vegeta as you stated said Gohan was stronger as a kid. His lack of training hurt his fighting skills. No matter how you look at it Gohan as a child was a better fighter.

Also the Mystic form was only a power up. I don't recall it ever stating that it increased every one of his status to their peak.
It doesn't matter what Goku and Vegeta said in the anime; the manga is the original source and is the true canon. Anything that deviates from the source material or changes it altogether is filler.

The only thing that remotely suggests that Gohan's fighting skills got worse was his spending 7 years doing nothing but studying during earth's time of peace. He may have gotten rusty as a result of that, but his performances in the Buu saga aren't inferior to those of his childhood days.

The only things that Gohan got better with that came with time, training, and maturity, were confidence, battle smarts, and fighting skills. Everything else got boosted due to the mystic power up.
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Last edited by Blackbeard D. Kuma; 2013-01-03 at 23:48.
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Old 2013-01-04, 09:24   Link #265
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Umm...maybe I should remind you guys that in my original post, I called Goku more “caring” to his family only when it’s compared to Vegeta (in the context of becoming Vegitto/Gogeta). Plus, I'm just kidding with that post .
Vegeta killed himself to protect his family. Goku killed his sons to protect a green alien.
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Old 2013-01-04, 10:29   Link #266
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Vegeta killed himself to protect his family. Goku killed his sons to protect a green alien.
Please take my original post with a grain of salt. Plus, I was talking more about daily attitude which is on superficial level, not too deep into their psyche. And you know what? We're arguing here over my joke is silly in itself .
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Old 2013-01-04, 11:01   Link #267
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Vegeta killed himself to protect his family. Goku killed his sons to protect a green alien.
Didn't Goku teleport with Cell to protect everyone? (including his son who was about to get killed by Cell.)
(Goku die with Cell self-destruction attack.)
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Old 2013-01-04, 11:18   Link #268
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About Goku's parenting I never saw Goku as a good dad until before the Cell games when he trains Gohan in that chamber. He pretty much tells him to have more confidence for all the achievements he had and that he is proud of having him as a son. Not only that, he wanted Gohan to become the strongest warrior. That was probably the only time Goku was a complex character although in the next parts of the Cell arc he failed a lot.
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Old 2013-01-04, 11:36   Link #269
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Originally Posted by Gundamx View Post
Didn't Goku teleport with Cell to protect everyone? (including his son who was about to get killed by Cell.)
(Goku die with Cell self-destruction attack.)
Yeah, but that was seven years prior. I was using a frame of reference that was within 7 days.

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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
About Goku's parenting I never saw Goku as a good dad until before the Cell games when he trains Gohan in that chamber. He pretty much tells him to have more confidence for all the achievements he had and that he is proud of having him as a son. Not only that, he wanted Gohan to become the strongest warrior. That was probably the only time Goku was a complex character although in the next parts of the Cell arc he failed a lot.
I always felt he treated Gohan more like a student than son. It's why Piccolo had to smack sense into him when Gohan was getting trashed by Cell. Goku realized "Oh crap, this is my son" and then tried to get in there to help him. Of course, Cell took the senzu beans, and we all know how that turned out.
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Old 2013-01-04, 15:55   Link #270
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I always found Goku's statement about him being able to beat Fat Buu boastful and arrogant. Goku didn't even know Buu's full capabilities, so it gave me the impression that he was talking out of his rear. Thoughts?
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Old 2013-01-04, 16:30   Link #271
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Well, he beat the crap out of Buu without breaking a sweat. But then, Buu wasn't really backing down, either. And Goku had trouble with Kid Buu, who statistically would've been at most 60% to 70% of Fat Majin Buu's power level (just a more savage fighter who only wanted blood, not fun).

However, given that SSJ2 Majin Vegeta did so much damage, SSJ3 Goku could've done more. I think it would basically come down to who stopped screwing around first in a real fight between SSJ3 Goku and Fat Majin Buu.
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Old 2013-01-05, 11:30   Link #272
Gundamx
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Yeah, but that was seven years prior. I was using a frame of reference that was within 7 days.
Errrr it ok if it was bad thing even if it it was from 7 years ago but not if it was good thing?
(Both of our example from same fight/time...)
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Old 2013-01-05, 12:03   Link #273
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Exciting, wanted Goku and the Z fighters back in my life. Though I don't really like the time frame, Buu saga kind of ruined Gohans image for me. Oh well just glad its something new from Toriyama.
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Old 2013-01-05, 20:43   Link #274
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Originally Posted by Gundamx View Post
Errrr it ok if it was bad thing even if it it was from 7 years ago but not if it was good thing?
(Both of our example from same fight/time...)
My example of Vegeta was when he blew himself up to try and kill Buu. My example of Goku is when Kid Buu appeared and he left Gohan, Goten, and Trunks behind to rescue Dende. How are either of those from Cell Saga?
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Old 2013-01-05, 21:50   Link #275
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
I always found Goku's statement about him being able to beat Fat Buu boastful and arrogant. Goku didn't even know Buu's full capabilities, so it gave me the impression that he was talking out of his rear. Thoughts?
I thought he looked to be a little bit more powerful based on their fight, but two factors negate that statement somewhat: a. he was dead at the time and could thus maintain the SSJ3 form with more consistency, and b. Buu's overpowered regeneration technique could probably allow him to last long enough to tire Goku out.

I'm excited for the movie just for a little bit of fun. I expect there to be issues with it fitting into the storyline in a sensical manner, as is the usual case for these movies. Based on everyone's expectations for it to fit with the canon, I'm left wondering - was it specifically stated somewhere this is supposed to be canon or something?

Also, never heard of this new Bardock special... guess I'll have to check that out too even though the plot sounds completely ridiculous. (I always loved the Bardock special as a kid).
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Old 2013-01-05, 21:55   Link #276
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Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Based on everyone's expectations for it to fit with the canon, I'm left wondering - was it specifically stated somewhere this is supposed to be canon or something?
Yes. I don't have the quote on hand, but Toriyama is helping with the screen play, and it was stated to be canon and fit between Kid Buu's defeat and the final episode/epilogue.

Quote:
Also, never heard of this new Bardock special... guess I'll have to check that out too even though the plot sounds completely ridiculous. (I always loved the Bardock special as a kid).
It is ridiculous, but still cool. The Team4Star version makes better sense than the real one.
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Old 2013-01-05, 22:03   Link #277
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Heh, alright then. Doesn't make me any more confident it won't have plot-holes/errors, but it gives it a more 'official' feel I suppose. I notice that the main villain's design feels like a throwback to earlier Dragonball, which is nice too. Speaking of which, I'd really love it if Dragonball got a Kai version without the filler.
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Old 2013-01-08, 16:29   Link #278
Gundamx
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
My example of Vegeta was when he blew himself up to try and kill Buu. My example of Goku is when Kid Buu appeared and he left Gohan, Goten, and Trunks behind to rescue Dende. How are either of those from Cell Saga?
My bad >>> When you said that he left his son for green >>> I tough that you mean when Goku let Gohan fight Cell alone.

Edit: And he choose Dende over his sons for dragon ball >>>> with it they cam revive everyone(even his children) >>>
>>It's been age since last time I watch DBZ but if my memory is right >>>> Namek Dragon ball can only revive one person >>>
>>> So if they want to save everyone in earth than they need Dende to be alive.

Last edited by Gundamx; 2013-01-09 at 03:20.
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Old 2013-01-12, 07:32   Link #279
GDB
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Interesting note came up in the new Team4Star podcast. It was brought up that they think Bills's name isn't going to end up being pronounced/romanized as Bills, but as Virus. Checking the kana, it certainly could work. Not sure how that'd work with Wiss/Uisu, but still interesting choice of potential name for the "God of Destruction".
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