AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Monogatari Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-01-04, 19:03   Link #81
sky black swordman
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: California
^ But wouldn't most people in situation out of curiosity ask: "What do you mean by that ?" or "why that is ?" instead of a simple "Oh".
__________________
Date A Live -Tohka Yatogami
sky black swordman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-04, 19:05   Link #82
Libros
I never hid my hurts.
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: I am lost in my own mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky black swordman View Post
^ But wouldn't most people in situation out of curiosity ask: "What do you mean by that ?" or "why that is ?" instead of a simple "Oh".
That may be true for most people but Hanekawa is probably a terrible judge of character. Her so-called friends did abandon her at the first sign of trouble, after all.
Libros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-04, 19:19   Link #83
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 26
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
Hanekawa Tsubasa

> She's all about glasses, school uniform, boobs, cats and bikinis.

EDIT: My Mistake...

Last edited by NoemiChan; 2013-01-04 at 19:57.
NoemiChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-04, 19:48   Link #84
Shadow5YA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky black swordman View Post
^ But wouldn't most people in situation out of curiosity ask: "What do you mean by that ?" or "why that is ?" instead of a simple "Oh".
No... because we're not talking about real "friends", we are talking about high school classmates who don't know each other but are trying to get along.

This is just like the cat burial example Araragi discussed: while everyone would think "I should bury this cat", most people would still hesistate to actually do it. This is the same thing. Not many people are willing to pry that far into someone or something they barely know about.


But for the sake of argument, let's assume that they ask further anyway. Then Hanekawa proceeds to tell them about how her real parents died with one of them committing suicide, and how her current parents don't accept her as their child.

What are high school children supposed to tell Hanekawa in return? "Don't worry, it'll get better?" That's a baseless lie.
Tell her they'll report her parents for child abuse? Once again, few people would actually go that far for people they aren't that close to, and even if they did, it's not a strong case. She was hit once, in a society and culture where capital punishment to discipline children is acceptable, and there is no other evidence that her parents have had a history of physically beating her more than that one time. Then, supposing that her parents do get convicted for child abuse for whatever imaginary evidence you think would magically work, what will happen to Hanekawa? She will get sent to another household she barely has any attachment to, and with Hanekawa's personality already being established, she can't force herself to act any more friendly to her new house either. Nothing gets solved.

Hanekawa's issue with her parents is clearly something beyond the scope of what a high school outsider like her classmates can handle or talk about. Even Araragi, who is her friend, outright stated that her household is doomed.
There is simply no way classmates who are casual acquantences can continue holding a conversation with her when she drops a depressing bombshell like that.
Shadow5YA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-04, 19:54   Link #85
Azuma Denton
~AD~
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Hanekawa Tsubasa

> She's all about glasses, school uniform, boobs, cats, and childhood friend.
Wait, childhood friend??


Well, i think the reason people are trying to avoid Hanekawa is because her reaction to this abuse. I would think she is strange too for her answer like "It is natural they hit me"...
Azuma Denton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-05, 03:19   Link #86
Shikijin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

Hanekawa does not see her parents as a problem. Remember when she defended her parents for hitting her in front of Araragi?
It is nothing like Stockholm syndrome. Hanekawa still considers her parents two strangers and refuses to consider them her family. The reason she defended them was simply because she wanted the issue to be dropped. She didn't want to ask for help.
Shikijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-05, 08:09   Link #87
Shadow5YA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
It is nothing like Stockholm syndrome. Hanekawa still considers her parents two strangers and refuses to consider them her family. The reason she defended them was simply because she wanted the issue to be dropped. She didn't want to ask for help.
She still justified an unjustifiable act and geniunely thought there was nothing wrong with it. She may not have compassion for her abuser, but she really thought she knew why he hit her.

It wasn't simply because she wanted the issue dropped - it was because she really felt like defending her parents was what she was supposed to do, just like she felt that she should bury that cat even if she couldn't care less about it.
Shadow5YA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-05, 08:42   Link #88
Shikijin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
She still justified an unjustifiable act and geniunely thought there was nothing wrong with it.
She told her father he shouldn't hit girls.
Shikijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-05, 09:05   Link #89
Shadow5YA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
She told her father he shouldn't hit girls.
That was something out of her "consideration" for others: she told her father he shouldn't hit girls, but she said nothing about how he shouldn't hit his own daughter.

She's obviously bothered by it, or Black Hanekawa wouldn't have made him one of her first targets.

However, at the same time, she forces herself not to be bothered by it to the point where her self restraint is second nature. Then, it's so easy to keep herself from being bothered by it that it doesn't seem like she is forcing herself at all anymore. It's like lying so much to the point where you can't stop, and you start acting like you believe those lies yourself.
Shadow5YA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-05, 09:39   Link #90
Shikijin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
That was something out of her "consideration" for others: she told her father he shouldn't hit girls, but she said nothing about how he shouldn't hit his own daughter.
She was just appealing to reason, which is the only way she argues.
Shikijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-05, 09:49   Link #91
Shadow5YA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
She was just appealing to reason, which is the only way she argues.
Of course, but in this case she is still using reason to justify an unethical action and defend the person who did it. That's the stockholm syndrome. However, like any kind of feelings, there are varying degrees or intensities to them, so you don't necessarily need to feel something as strong as actual "compassion" to do it. The desire to rationalize the abuse to others can just be as vague as a coping/defense mechanism close to denial, but kind of not.

Last edited by Shadow5YA; 2013-01-05 at 10:00.
Shadow5YA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-05, 10:58   Link #92
Shikijin
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Of course, but in this case she is still using reason to justify an unethical action and defend the person who did it. That's the stockholm syndrome.
I am arguing this is not the case, as Hanekawa didn't develop any affection for her parents, so the syndrome doesn't apply to her. For all we know it is likely she didn't even mean those words. She just minimized things because she didn't want any uproar.

If anything, it seems a problem of some dv victims is that they fall prey to a superiority complex in being a victim. When the other person is a brute, you place him beneath you and feel morally dignified.

This is probably closer to what happened with Hanekawa.
Shikijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-08, 07:39   Link #93
Zetsubo
著述遮断
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
Ah, Hane-chan~, so much to say but too few words to actually get the entire meaning across. :P So if I end a particular aspect/section too early, it's because I wanted to get to the next point before I forget what I wanted to say about it.

On the surface, she was the living embodiment of the "too good to be true" statement. Everyone it seems has nothing but good to say about her - and really, just glancing at the outward, one would be hard-pressed to dislike Hanekawa for anything. In fact, she could be called a saint. But of course, she had a 'perfect' fascade. Turns out she was inherently flawed in that she even thought to put out such a fascade as a coping mechanisim in the first place. While it is admirable that she would act like a 'perfect daughter' and that they would accept her if she did that, she shouldn't have had to do it. Even if she acted like a b*tch even a part of the time, that would be the most normal reaction most teenagers would give, especially to those so-called 'parents' of hers. Just thinking about them makes me want to bash their heads in front of her.

She didn't let herself be who she really was in front of Araragi. With Senjougahara, she knew herself that she was flawed, she told Araragi flat out that she was flawed and that she really had no clue as to what she's doing, but she still took a chance, despite being flawed and having it known. Going over some of the material, I didn't get that with Hanekawa at all. It's as if she only dropped hints now and again to Araragi that things weren't perfect with her, but her fascade was so convincing that Araragi didn't pick up on it at all, nor did anyone else for that matter.

Hnn, I gotta quit here since my niece is trying to mess me up as I type in a bid for attention.... ><....
I agree.

Hitagi was honest.

Tsubasa was not.

Araragi went witht he honest girl instinctively.

Hitagi tried to get help abd be helped... and accepted help.

Tsubasa did not.

Tsubasa lost her romantic chance with Koromi simply because she wasn't honest with herself. Nor did she try to help herself.
Zetsubo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-07-05, 21:30   Link #94
redgrnbluylw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Just rewatched NekoKuro, and I'd like some help with understanding the Araragi x Hanekawa relationship. Basically... Hanekawa scared away Araragi's romantic feelings for her; instead, they transformed from love to reverence, once he got to know her true personality. Is this correct? It's just all really complicated.

Also, I disagree with Oshino when he said it was "disgusting" (or another similar word...I forget) of her to tell her present dad, "You shouldn't hit girls." Personally, I just see it as her having a sassy moment. I mean, it's natural to want to defend yourself, right? Or am I missing something here? Oshino's judgement just kind of bothers me.

And why did Araragi freak out when he found absolutely no trace of Hanekawa in her household? I mean, yeah, it's weird, but if it were me, I would just feel upset for my friend, maybe? Pity, maybe? I didn't understand why he reacted as terrified as he did.

Also... It broke my heart when Hanekawa told herself that she should just die. But it was also sort of random, too. I'm guessing this feeling was suppressed under her Honor Student persona?
redgrnbluylw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-07-06, 16:42   Link #95
Malkuth
Banned
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London
Age: 34
Send a message via MSN to Malkuth Send a message via Skype™ to Malkuth
It's impossible to understand the Koyomi X Tsubasa relationship without reading Kizumonogatari!

Last edited by Malkuth; 2013-07-06 at 16:44. Reason: grammar
Malkuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-07-06, 20:14   Link #96
redgrnbluylw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
It's impossible to understand the Koyomi X Tsubasa relationship without reading Kizumonogatari!
Well speak of the devil. I actually finished reading it today! I think I understand it better. I see Tsubasa really differently now, kind of impressed by how smart she is. I think I understand now why she's such a worrisome character... The Meddlesome Cat really does suit her.
redgrnbluylw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-07-07, 02:20   Link #97
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by redgrnbluylw View Post
Well speak of the devil. I actually finished reading it today! I think I understand it better. I see Tsubasa really differently now, kind of impressed by how smart she is. I think I understand now why she's such a worrisome character... The Meddlesome Cat really does suit her.
The understanding is that she is truly gifted; despite the curse of a broken family, she has the intellect of a supervillain. The frustrating part is that she didn't use that great mind of hers to improve her life.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-07-07, 02:52   Link #98
Malkuth
Banned
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London
Age: 34
Send a message via MSN to Malkuth Send a message via Skype™ to Malkuth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The understanding is that she is truly gifted; despite the curse of a broken family, she has the intellect of a supervillain. The frustrating part is that she didn't use that great mind of hers to improve her life.
Her life would have been far worse if she behaved less intelligently. Plus it's not that she does not want to make her life easier, rather that along with her intelligence and overwhelming personality, she is bounds herself into obeying social rules, hoping to integrate into society. In addition, like most kids from broken families that do not resort in violence for externalizing their fear of abandonment, she strives to be nice and helpful (more than needed/wanted).
Malkuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-07-26, 16:26   Link #99
Haiprbim
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Visual Dream Panire
She is quite boring, looking at the first three episodes of Monogatari Series Second Season.

Well, cannot have all the characters as special, unique, and energetic as quite a few are in the series.
Haiprbim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-07-26, 18:15   Link #100
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
She is quite boring, looking at the first three episodes of Monogatari Series Second Season.

Well, cannot have all the characters as special, unique, and energetic as quite a few are in the series.
Note her starting monologue about this arc in ep 1?
This is about someone who is a girl, a cat, and a tiger.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
characters

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.