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Old 2012-01-27, 14:32   Link #2361
23 gundam fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winter45 View Post
@23 gundam fan

I can see your point of view as in a personal level relationship between siblings as well as a non official representative.

Problem is even *IF* orb is in the wrong, by default your still have to support your nation forces. Without them, your asking anyone without friendly intentions to invade your territory. Which is far worse scenario than not supporting your forces.
i have said that cagaill would want to defend her nation. but i am talking about her meeting with athrun, it came off like even there in that meeting with kira athrun ang cagilli with no outside influence, it seemed like cagailli still could not admit to athrun at least that hey we are in the wrong the minerva had to defend itself from my people during there battles up to that point. it seem like kira and cagailli are telling athrun they were wrong to fight orb, and you can see that was driving athrun crazy mad during that meeting. i am saying cagilli just owning that would have lower that intense talk with athrun, and then lets move on to what do we do now. (which athrun already told them what they should do in regards to taking cagilli home to orb)
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Old 2012-01-27, 14:58   Link #2362
monster
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Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan View Post
i have said that cagaill would want to defend her nation. but i am talking about her meeting with athrun, it came off like even there in that meeting with kira athrun ang cagilli with no outside influence, it seemed like cagailli still could not admit to athrun at least that hey we are in the wrong the minerva had to defend itself from my people during there battles up to that point.
Um, no, Cagalli and Kira didn't even talk about the Minerva much. Athrun was the one who asked why they would interfere, and Cagalli simply answered that she wanted to protect Orb. Again, they never said Minerva didn't have the right to defend itself. But that doesn't mean Cagalli has to let the Orb fleet be destroyed.
Quote:
it seem like kira and cagailli are telling athrun they were wrong to fight orb, and you can see that was driving athrun crazy mad during that meeting.
They never said that, Cagalli only asked why Athrun, himself, joined ZAFT. It was, after all, a surprise to them that he's with ZAFT now. And they never said anything about Minerva.
Quote:
i am saying cagilli just owning that would have lower that intense talk with athrun, and then lets move on to what do we do now. (which athrun already told them what they should do in regards to taking cagilli home to orb)
The one thing Athrun said was that Cagalli should've prevented the alliance in the first place. But it's too late complaining about it by then. And why would he expect Cagalli to be able to reverse an alliance when she couldn't stop it from happening in the first place?

Last edited by monster; 2012-01-27 at 15:09.
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Old 2012-01-28, 05:11   Link #2363
winter45
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@23 gundam fan

Even tho you are responding to me I do understand what your trying to say even if it is badly worded.

I have very similar disgust on AA crew actions as a whole. But ive already said my piece years ago in different threads. But for argument purpose im just going to stay neutral and avoid another circle of arguments specifically the nature of Kira's insertions. I hope you can understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan View Post
(which athrun already told them what they should do in regards to taking cagilli home to orb)
Cagalli is part of the leadership of orb should never have abandon her post as a government official. Certainly there is not much she can do to break the alliance ties but nevertheless she has responsibilities for her citizens.

But for the sake of plot and story we can see from the final product why she was at the frontlines instead of doing what politicians that dont agree with mainstream decisions do back in parliament.

Last edited by winter45; 2012-01-28 at 08:55. Reason: Work calls
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Old 2012-01-30, 12:59   Link #2364
iLiaSs
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After re-wachting Gundam Seed and Destiny for the 4th time i can say that this SEED serie is the best Anime imo out in the anime world, its just great everything! The drama, the action, its all perfect. And i know there allot of those bashers, it's just you guys take it to damn serieusly these Gundam series, Kira is just perfect! FU
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Old 2012-01-30, 14:04   Link #2365
23 gundam fan
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
Um, no, Cagalli and Kira didn't even talk about the Minerva much. Athrun was the one who asked why they would interfere, and Cagalli simply answered that she wanted to protect Orb. Again, they never said Minerva didn't have the right to defend itself. But that doesn't mean Cagalli has to let the Orb fleet be destroyed. They never said that, Cagalli only asked why Athrun, himself, joined ZAFT. It was, after all, a surprise to them that he's with ZAFT now. And they never said anything about Minerva. The one thing Athrun said was that Cagalli should've prevented the alliance in the first place. But it's too late complaining about it by then. And why would he expect Cagalli to be able to reverse an alliance when she couldn't stop it from happening in the first place?
well for one reason cagailli wasnt the same push over. remember she had a new resolve after her talk with kira and lacus. taking cagailli back to orb at that point would have made a difference, she would have stood her ground iregarding orb joining the earth alliance. and athrun complaining about cadailli stopping the alliance in the first place was meant to show everyone how this situation that got so out of control, didint have to with a few smart choices.
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Old 2012-01-30, 18:26   Link #2366
monster
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Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan View Post
well for one reason cagailli wasnt the same push over. remember she had a new resolve after her talk with kira and lacus. taking cagailli back to orb at that point would have made a difference, she would have stood her ground iregarding orb joining the earth alliance.
It was Cagalli's resolve that made her interfere in the first place. It's been the same way since SEED. Cagalli has always been more comfortable trying to make her point on the battlefield.
Quote:
and athrun complaining about cadailli stopping the alliance in the first place was meant to show everyone how this situation that got so out of control, didint have to with a few smart choices.
Remind me, who was the person who abandoned Cagalli in the first place, and thus allowing her to be pressured by Yuna and the others who support the alliance? Oh that's right, it's Mr. I-can't-get-over-my-dad-so-let's-switch-side-again Athrun himself.

I'm sorry, but Athrun is the last person who should be blaming others about not making the "smart" choices.

The funny thing is, that he keeps on doing it, like when he was mad at Shinn for not being a good soldier when, as we can see in SEED, Athrun wasn't always a good soldier himself.
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Old 2012-01-30, 20:42   Link #2367
winter45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iLiaSs View Post
After re-wachting Gundam Seed and Destiny for the 4th time i can say that this SEED serie is the best Anime imo
Thats cool, your entitled to your opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLiaSs View Post
out in the anime world, its just great everything! The drama, the action, its all perfect.
I disagree on the *perfect* view of yours but your entitled to your opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLiaSs View Post
And i know there allot of those bashers,
Define bashers? most people here recently are being civil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLiaSs View Post
it's just you guys take it to damn serieusly these Gundam series,
Gundam fans or fans in general are entitled to take a series they like seriously.

You can go around the net and find kira cultists or lacus bearers, kiraXathrun social groups as an example of *serious*

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLiaSs View Post
Kira is just perfect! FU
Perhaps in your own mind, but he does have flaws shown throughout SEED and DESTINY.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan View Post
well for one reason cagailli wasnt the same push over. remember she had a new resolve after her talk with kira and lacus. taking cagailli back to orb at that point would have made a difference, she would have stood her ground iregarding orb joining the earth alliance.
When it finally *clicked* in, she continued to take the long route. She unnecessary put people lives at risk for her goals. Going around beating up her own forces has always been to me a silly way to to solve her personal problem with ORBS current political position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan View Post
and athrun complaining about cadailli stopping the alliance in the first place was meant to show everyone how this situation that got so out of control, didint have to with a few smart choices.
Cagilli isnt the wisest leader out there, her immaturity and inexperience speaks for itself. No big surprise she will take an irrational and dramatic approach when it comes to problem solving. Just unfortunate for ORB that she is part of their leadership when she is in this mental state. Only time will tell if she ever grows up from this childish approach from the next big ORB related drama occurs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
The funny thing is, that he keeps on doing it, like when he was mad at Shinn for not being a good soldier when, as we can see in SEED, Athrun wasn't always a good soldier himself.
Hehe Times has changed... the mention athrun not being a good soldier lead to neg reps, hate mails and at least 20 rabid fans disagreeing.

Last edited by winter45; 2012-01-31 at 01:09. Reason: Major editing
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Old 2012-01-31, 07:57   Link #2368
iLiaSs
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What kinda flaws did Kira shown in SEED and destiny? I think Kira was really intresting, with the fact that he was the ultimate coordinator! But again like Kira also say'd, he was selfish sometime's, that is maybe a flaw. I think that Gill in Destiny was a Good man with an good solution, but Kira and lacus didnt like'd it and they put up a meaningless fight.
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Old 2012-01-31, 08:52   Link #2369
maknaedik
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Perfection in real life doesn't exist that's why I thought in a sci-fi movie or an anime, one could be. Unfortunately, there is none. Even Kira, who is one of my favorite pilot thus far.

I know there are bashers of Seed. Most of their claims are baseless and they were just on it because they think they're cool if they do. Anyway, if you see it here, expect it to be deleted.

For me, Seed is a good series, but Destiny is err.. have good mechs least to say. It's confusing, really.
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Old 2012-01-31, 14:17   Link #2370
23 gundam fan
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
It was Cagalli's resolve that made her interfere in the first place. It's been the same way since SEED. Cagalli has always been more comfortable trying to make her point on the battlefield. Remind me, who was the person who abandoned Cagalli in the first place, and thus allowing her to be pressured by Yuna and the others who support the alliance? Oh that's right, it's Mr. I-can't-get-over-my-dad-so-let's-switch-side-again Athrun himself.

I'm sorry, but Athrun is the last person who should be blaming others about not making the "smart" choices.

The funny thing is, that he keeps on doing it, like when he was mad at Shinn for not being a good soldier when, as we can see in SEED, Athrun wasn't always a good soldier himself.
i agree that the aa choice take cagailli to the battlefield wasnt really smart. the point i am making is after the change that cagailli had as far as trying to make a difference and not being a pushover, would have been more helpful if the aa would have taken her home to orb. with her new atitude she would have worked to get orb out of there partnership with the earth alliance. one thing we all can agree on is the fact that cagailli is stubbon and a spitfire when she believes in something. now imagine that cagailli standing up to the orb cabin.
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Old 2012-01-31, 15:12   Link #2371
monster
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Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan View Post
i agree that the aa choice take cagailli to the battlefield wasnt really smart. the point i am making is after the change that cagailli had as far as trying to make a difference and not being a pushover, would have been more helpful if the aa would have taken her home to orb. with her new atitude she would have worked to get orb out of there partnership with the earth alliance. one thing we all can agree on is the fact that cagailli is stubbon and a spitfire when she believes in something. now imagine that cagailli standing up to the orb cabin.
I just don't see what actions Cagalli can take when they have signed a treaty.

She would risk a war with the AF again, and the last time Orb did that, Orb was conquered.
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Old 2012-01-31, 15:23   Link #2372
wm4
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Originally Posted by 23 gundam fan View Post
i agree that the aa choice take cagailli to the battlefield wasnt really smart. the point i am making is after the change that cagailli had as far as trying to make a difference and not being a pushover, would have been more helpful if the aa would have taken her home to orb. ....
I think the collapse of the Seiran administration was the right time Cagalli go back.
She could go back earlier, but she could surely not do anything. You know, many people are
very stubborn regarding elders and hierarchy; they follows whatever craps from a mature,
well-formed nobles like Seiran, but not from a young, orphaned ones aka Athha,
though Cagalli is clearly much more smarter. This was one of the reason
of the unnecessarily causalities in the Orb-Minerva battle.

Very crazy, wasn't it ?

And I think it was Cagalli who insisted to go out to interference, and it was impossible
to stop her. This is why I think she is a much better solider than a bad leader.
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Old 2012-02-02, 02:16   Link #2373
winter45
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@iLiaSs

Seed kira was shown that he could be manipulated. DESTINY he was defeated by being predictable against shinn. There are others but im short on time.

@wm4

Cagalli even tho she may not get fast direct results she may try other approaches such as rallying and campaigning. Government officials practice this when they are against a mainstream decision.



Given her political opponent is removed of course it a good time to come back. No risk no obstacles no effort.



Yes it is easy to stop her. Room with 3 walls and bars.. solves everything when trying to restrain someone...

j/k aside, AA crew are very irresponsible for allowing the head of state to freely do as she pleases in a battle.

Safety of government official is a high priority when on board a military vessel in the navy.


Considering cagalli is quite poor as a politician then i wouldn't be surprised anything she does would be better. NO offense but she would also be a pi$$ poor soldier as well. The scenes where ORB pilots yelling at her what soldiers do and fight for is a clear indication she doesn't understand the qualities that makes a soldier.
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Old 2012-02-02, 04:38   Link #2374
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Cagalli even tho she may not get fast direct results she may try other approaches such as rallying and campaigning. Government officials practice this when they are against a mainstream decision.
Given her political opponent is removed of course it a good time to come back. No risk no obstacles no effort.
I thought you point should stand given that Cagalli's situation was not as desperate as so.
I looks obvious that Cagalli didn't have much support in the administration. Her left & right arms were
the Seiren family. I guess one needs some time to prepare a campaign, but it looked apparently
that everyone of the AF, the PLANT, and of course the internal culprits were constantly stealing her time.

What happened in the storyline was not that optimal, either. The rise and fall of Muammar
Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi (as well as Char in CCA; I mentioned Char because al-Gaddafi and him were quite
similar at that point) is a pretty classical example of a hero taking leadership.
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Old 2013-01-04, 22:53   Link #2375
Rising Dragon
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Um... wouldn't this be more appropriate for the general SEED thread? Plus posting manga raw pages is against the rules and ticks the mods off.
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Old 2013-01-05, 09:36   Link #2376
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Why it was controversial? Kira and Mu. They should have stayed dead, instead they ruined everything. Athrun also needs to make up his mind for once and Cagalli needs to stop being lead around the nose. Shinn should have got more development and screen time as well as his relationship with Lunamaria expanded upon.
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Old 2013-01-05, 10:27   Link #2377
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I lol at this topic. the existence of this thread proves the "controversial" status of GSD
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Old 2013-01-05, 11:12   Link #2378
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Why it was controversial? Kira and Mu. They should have stayed dead, instead they ruined everything. Athrun also needs to make up his mind for once and Cagalli needs to stop being lead around the nose. Shinn should have got more development and screen time as well as his relationship with Lunamaria expanded upon.
if thats so than athrun and shin should had died as well athrun on the gouf and shin in the last ep of destiny where he had his helmet cracked
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Old 2013-01-06, 00:56   Link #2379
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Shinn never would have died, he was fine. Lunamaria fixed his helmet before is cracked completely.

Besides, original Mu and Kira were supposed to die. That was changed due to Kira fanboys and many refusing to accept Mu's death. Hence why they edited out his blood helmet floating in space.

Destiny need more focus on the Real Main Character. Shinn, and a real villain. Not Mu pretending he was Rau.
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Old 2013-01-06, 01:03   Link #2380
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Quote:
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Shinn never would have died, he was fine. Lunamaria fixed his helmet before is cracked completely.

Besides, original Mu and Kira were supposed to die. That was changed due to Kira fanboys and many refusing to accept Mu's death. Hence why they edited out his blood helmet floating in space.

Destiny need more focus on the Real Main Character. Shinn, and a real villain. Not Mu pretending he was Rau.
Or Ray, who literally WAS Rau, lol.

It just felt like SEED Destiny lacked a lot of originality too, specially mid-way through to the end, where it melted down into SEED 2.0 pretty much.
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