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Old 2013-01-07, 22:18   Link #6961
Sansker
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Of course, I say that just now. How could I ever say that prior to that moment?

(Bad joke)

What I mean is that in the past I have acknowledge your opinions but sharing my disagreement with such opinions for my own reasons.
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Old 2013-01-07, 22:20   Link #6962
Lhklan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
Of course, I say that just now. How could I ever say that prior to that moment?

(Bad joke)

What I mean is that in the past I have acknowledge your opinions but sharing my disagreement with such opinions for my own reasons.
And that's the problem. Agreeing to disagree means that acknowledging you have different opinions and that the difference won't be resolved, keeping your opinions to yourself then move on.

If you share your disagreement with such opinions then it's not "agree to disagree" or move on. At all.
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Old 2013-01-07, 22:24   Link #6963
Sansker
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But that is why we debate. We have a fact: this manga, and we have points of view about it. We share them and we can agree or disagree. I say why I don’t agree to your take and then you could say why you don’t agree to my take and see how we both develop our own conclusions over the same matter, trying to use a different point of view. Of course we might not reach an agreement on how to look at some facts, but if we just stop talking because of it then we are not willing to do a debate and the point of that is too see what others thing.
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Old 2013-01-07, 23:59   Link #6964
Endscape
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Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
But that is why we debate. We have a fact: this manga, and we have points of view about it. We share them and we can agree or disagree. I say why I don’t agree to your take and then you could say why you don’t agree to my take and see how we both develop our own conclusions over the same matter, trying to use a different point of view. Of course we might not reach an agreement on how to look at some facts, but if we just stop talking because of it then we are not willing to do a debate and the point of that is too see what others thing.
You do realize that when people agree to disagree that means that the debate is over, right?
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Old 2013-01-08, 00:14   Link #6965
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Of course. But I am not a fan of ended it right away
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Old 2013-01-08, 00:20   Link #6966
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Of course. But I am not a fan of ended it right away
Which is exactly why people have a problem with you.
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Old 2013-01-08, 00:58   Link #6967
Akiyoshi
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Guys, guys, since when Sansker's character preferences became the main topic? He have an opinion and is adamant on defending it, i think that's fair game. I don't share his dislikeness of ViVid (when i think ViVid is just "ok" i do enjoy some of the characters) but he has pointed the flaws he can see and i think thats fine, i can live with some of those flaws and enjoy the work and as the years teched me, you're also able to do that. So let's move on...

Back on topic, i do think Tohma is a bit more bland than other mebers of the cast, not a terrible flaw but it's there. Kaijo comapred him several times with Nanoha but while it's true Nanoha lacks backstory and justification the true is that she has always been pro-active and determined with her goals no matter how sudden or baseless they may appear. Tohma have good intentions but i haven't seen his determination yet ...aside of his flashbacks as a lone orphan.

I invite Sansker to be a bit patient (i know, i sound like an utter hypocrite for saying that, but i unwillingly had to learn how to do that), as i said before most plot devices connected to Tohma and the main plot will start to move the moment Curren's Big family reunion finally happens. Stay tuned xD
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Old 2013-01-08, 01:01   Link #6968
Lhklan
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Of course. But I am not a fan of ended it right away
Guess what? A lot of people are like that. Unlike you, when they see that, they agree to move on.
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Old 2013-01-08, 09:55   Link #6969
Sansker
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So lets move on.

The story might go a progress but that won’t made this past parts go away. Besides I am curious about this family reunion and I hope we can learn why not all Hückebein have “Hückebein” as their last name. This could mean they take other children in as they want to take Thoma but a little backstory on then will be nice and I guess that is what we are going to have when they finally get together and Curren explains what all of this is about.
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Old 2013-01-08, 10:47   Link #6970
Justin_Brett
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Personally, I'd prefer if they hadn't added Stella. The obvious reason why she's around kinda bugs me.
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Old 2013-01-08, 11:26   Link #6971
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A cute lil murderous loli that controls a warship? She is probably the only one you wouldn't expect in this kind of group. So, take your pick: cliched bad guys that make sense, or unexpected character types that throw you for a loop.

On one hand, Tsuzuki most likely added her for comedic twist effect. But on the other... there were probably a range of people infected with the eclipse. The Hucks gave her a home and a means to control the bloodlust, so kinda tries to show they aren't all bad; they make the best of a bad situation and take care of fellow outcasts.

I do find myself interested in Stella's backstory, though. I've imagined a series of fics detailing the beginnings of each Huck, and I always get a sad feeling. This idealistic universe is getting a little less ideal, and more realistic.
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Old 2013-01-08, 14:06   Link #6972
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You wouldn't expect a little kid to be part of the Wolkenritter, either, so don't play that card. And Vita's not nearly as stock as she's been so far. Couldn't you come up with a better way to show they're (supposedly) good?

Quote:
This idealistic universe is getting a little less ideal, and more realistic.
You should go back and watch the first three seasons again. You're already reading between the lines for them.
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Old 2013-01-08, 14:40   Link #6973
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That is assuming we can consider the Hückebein good at all. To me is a little odd when we see villains in such strong and family like groups, because that use to end in the “they aren’t that bad” line and for Nanoha is really nothing new. I mean Fate, the Wolkenritter, the Numbers and now the Hückebein? To be fair having regular bad guys will be the actual change here.

Stella doesn’t feel like a cold blood murder as some of the other Hucks and almost any other Eclipse Driver we have seen (The Grendel try but I don’t think they could kill anyone even if their lives depend on it). Really I am wondering how she deals with the infection and if she is really infected. Her Hückebein mark is on her dress, not on her skin so there is that.

But even with all this elements I don’t think that this world is either ideal or getting more realistic, at least not in the sense that now is a little more like ours. The Nanoha universe was never perfect and it has been refer by some characters that they do have serious problems, but we never actually see most of them. Of course we see the incidents and we hear the backstories of some of the characters (Points to Force, Isis is the first character in a while that doesn’t come from a broken family) but I never get how things are on a regular base.
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Old 2013-01-08, 15:15   Link #6974
LostSome
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Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
(Points to Force, Isis is the first character in a while that doesn’t come from a broken family)
How do you know this ?
While I think Shamal mentioned Isis`father and brothers, I don`t remember anything about a mother at all.
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Old 2013-01-08, 15:19   Link #6975
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How exactly do we know it's not a broken family? I mean, Isis had to have left for a reason, and given the rest of Force I doubt it was "because I felt like it". Touma had a pretty specific reason for ditching the orphanage and not accepting Genya's adoption right away, after all, not that it was apparent from the get-go.
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Old 2013-01-08, 15:42   Link #6976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
You wouldn't expect a little kid to be part of the Wolkenritter, either, so don't play that card. And Vita's not nearly as stock as she's been so far. Couldn't you come up with a better way to show they're (supposedly) good?
True enough about Vita, but she's a program. Technically, that means she could have been anything. Stella is an actual little girl that has been forced to kill. There is an immediate difference in tone. As for the Hucks in general...
Quote:
You should go back and watch the first three seasons again. You're already reading between the lines for them.
Partially I am, so I won't attempt to justify it too much. It's just my instincts as a writer and someone who has read a lot of books. But Curren going around destroying dividers and eclipse research... I get the impression that they'd be better off if there were more eclipse people around. So why destroy it? Unless they don't want anyone else inflicted with it because they know how bad it is. I just get a vibe Curren is serious and correct when she says they are fighting evil.

Of course, you'll bring up the dead bodies, and I won't excuse it. Instead, I'll draw a comparison with a comic book hero: the Punisher. Or at least, some of the comics say he's supposed to be one, and yet he kills many.

Not gonna say the hucks are heroes, or that they shouldn't be stopped. But I do feel that their (presumed) lives were shitty, and by the time they realized what had happened to them, they had already broke. Much like the wolkies past lives.

But yes, strictly my own feelings for now. I think that at least a few hucks are gonna get befriended.
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Old 2013-01-08, 16:10   Link #6977
Sansker
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Originally Posted by LostSome View Post
How do you know this ?
While I think Shamal mentioned Isis`father and brothers, I don`t remember anything about a mother at all.
Well, until is not say that she die or something I will just asume she is alive and in good health. Like Miura, Rio and Corona's parents in ViVid
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Old 2013-01-08, 17:27   Link #6978
LostSome
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Well, until is not say that she die or something I will just asume she is alive and in good health. Like Miura, Rio and Corona's parents in ViVid
Still, it sounded like you were saying it as a fact.
And like Rising Dragon said, she must had a reason for running away...
Sure, something like a divorce could be an interesting angle.
Her mother running away with another man... Wait, it`s Nanoha ! With another person.
So... All of the Hulks have a normal family somewhere unless stated otherwise, right ?
I`m fine with that.
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Old 2013-01-08, 17:34   Link #6979
Justin_Brett
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Wasn't planning on it, no. The other seasons had things that were just as bad as people being killed if you think about it, and a universe is more than what happens to the title character. The main characters are idealistic, but the setting as a whole...

Quote:
True enough about Vita, but she's a program. Technically, that means she could have been anything. Stella is an actual little girl that has been forced to kill. There is an immediate difference in tone. As for the Hucks in general...
Yeah, but we've seen that personality from here like once, and she suddenly dropped it while talking to Hayate for some reason. More than half the time she's on panel it's her doing something cutesy, even if clashes with what's going on.
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Old 2013-01-08, 18:06   Link #6980
Kurohane
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
I do find myself interested in Stella's backstory, though. I've imagined a series of fics detailing the beginnings of each Huck, and I always get a sad feeling. This idealistic universe is getting a little less ideal, and more realistic.
Fortis excliamed that she shouldn't give her last name. I guess she is from a prominent family. Otherwise, why else would it matter? If she came from your average family, why does it matter if the TSAB finds out about it? Plus you have to wonder how they got their ship in the first place and how Stella seems to be only one capable of operating it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
But yes, strictly my own feelings for now. I think that at least a few hucks are gonna get befriended.
Fortis, I have a good hunch won't be. Has anyone seen the Force comics promoting the A's second movie. You can find it in the Movie 2nd expectations thread. Fortis was the only one missing from the Huckbein, even Fifth was in it and she is relatively new.
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