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Old 2013-01-07, 23:40   Link #2401
NoemiChan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Shinn never would have died, he was fine. Lunamaria fixed his helmet before is cracked completely.
Shinn is better to have died. He's one stupid puppet. It would have been the best ending for Destiny.
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Old 2013-01-07, 23:56   Link #2402
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I guess one big thing was that it became clear that it seemed like the writers didn't know WHERE they wanted SEED Destiny to go, so Shinn kept flip-flopping between "good guy" and "bad guy" as did ZAFT and Dullindal while the end was almost a copy/paste of SEED.
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Old 2013-01-07, 23:59   Link #2403
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The thing about Gundam Seed Destiny is that many animations were from the original Gundam Seed. Characters were not as strong in likability nor hatred. I was a fan of Gundam Seed Destiny when it first started, afterwards I took a minute and saw too many flaws and similarities from its predecessor.

Gundam Seed Destiny was a decent, but not a good sequel.
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Old 2013-01-08, 00:03   Link #2404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
The thing about Gundam Seed Destiny is that many animations were from the original Gundam Seed. Characters were not as strong in likability nor hatred. I was a fan of Gundam Seed Destiny when it first started, afterwards I took a minute and saw too many flaws and similarities from its predecessor.

Gundam Seed Destiny was a decent, but not a good sequel.
And it just felt like they tried to cover up a bit of it with "UC homages" (more like almost-total copycatting in terms of MS).

For me, I think the series started going down as early as soon after the dropping of Junius 7. Some slight positives in between, but otherwise...yeah...
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Old 2013-01-08, 00:04   Link #2405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera View Post
I guess one big thing was that it became clear that it seemed like the writers didn't know WHERE they wanted SEED Destiny to go, so Shinn kept flip-flopping between "good guy" and "bad guy" as did ZAFT and Dullindal while the end was almost a copy/paste of SEED.
Hold on there, Shin never flip-flopped between "good guy" and "bad guy." With CE, it's more about different factions in a conflict, rather than simply "good" and "bad" guy, with certain obvious exceptions.

As for flip-flopping, that distinction fits Athrun more than any other character.
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Old 2013-01-08, 02:21   Link #2406
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As for flip-flopping, that distinction fits Athrun more than any other character.
The guy's confused, Athrun that is........
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Old 2013-01-08, 08:57   Link #2407
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Shinn is better to have died. He's one stupid puppet. It would have been the best ending for Destiny.
He was only a puppet because all that screentime that should have been spent developing him was stolen by Kira godmodeing everything with his hypocrisy. Shinn had the ground work laid out to be a great character but he was dropped halfway through for Kira time. Destiny started going bad the moment they decided Kira was to fight again as Kira "Jesus" Yamato who can do no wrong, cannot die no matter what, and is always right when he isn't.

Banpresto has already shown with SRW Z Saga and L that Shinn could have been amazing had the time actually been spent on him and not on Kira.
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Old 2013-01-08, 09:13   Link #2408
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I love IF scenarious...not really. IF Kira just had died Shin would have been a better characters.
Doesn't make sense to me.
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Old 2013-01-08, 13:10   Link #2409
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It does, Banpresto already proved that if Kira was reduced to a support role or less Shinn would be a better character since actual development would occur. There's a reason why Shinn's VA loves the Z Shinn over the Shinn in Destiny that was pushed to the side for Kira the Hypocrite.
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Old 2013-01-08, 14:36   Link #2410
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Which is kind of the ironic thing, even Lacus openly acknowledged the hypocrisy they were showing near the end of SEED with their "interventions".

And yeah, Shinn looked like he could've been a far better character than Kira, and Athrun (keeping his newfound self from the end of SEED) would've made a good support pillar to help guide him through more difficult times.

As for Athrun, I guess the way they had him switch sides, at least in SEED, was more believable to me since he had a personal stake in it with his father being ZAFT's current leader, so he had a personal conflict within himself of being loyal to his father and ZAFT or to do "what is right" (all point-of-view) and fight alongside Kira. SEED Destiny, however, really didn't offer anything that would warrant such swapping. It felt like the writers, again, just didn't know where they wanted it to go, so just figured that, since Athrun was liked, they could just repeat what he did before and it'd all be fine.

With Shinn, they also couldn't decide. One minute, he's all, "I'll be rebellious and do what I think is right and screw anyone who tries to stop me!", then the next, he's all, "Screw anyone who says differently from Rey or Dullindal! I HAVE to believe them like a dog!"
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Old 2013-01-08, 16:04   Link #2411
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I still believe that Shinn was developed, it's just that instead of developing him into a hero they developed him into a well meaning anti-villian because of his issues, and Durandal's and Rey's manipulation.

As for Kira and company's supposed hipocrisy, they're no more hypocritical then the usually gundam leads who fight to attain peace. Sometimes that's just what it takes.
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Old 2013-01-08, 16:16   Link #2412
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The difference is is that at least most other Gundam protagonists knew and accepted that it was peace through war like a lot of wars throughout history.

It wasn't some ultra-idealistic view of "everyone understanding eachother" or "no more fighting" or anything like that. And if they DO take that route, they make the outcome pretty realistic like The 08th MS Team where, in the end, it started AND ended with just Shiro and Aina really going for it, with even those closest to them thinking they were a bit crazy. Or simply changing things up like earlier 00 did with them doing their interventions, but with the full intention of becoming the targets by getting the world united to fight against them rather than continuing to fight amongst themselves.
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Old 2013-01-08, 16:44   Link #2413
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Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera View Post
The difference is is that at least most other Gundam protagonists knew and accepted that it was peace through war like a lot of wars throughout history.
How is it really different in seed's case. At the end of Seed the TSA started fighting the other factions to end the conflict and achieve peace, because if they didn't humanity would be destroyed.

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Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera View Post
It wasn't some ultra-idealistic view of "everyone understanding eachother" or "no more fighting" or anything like that.
Correct me if I'm wrong but from the shows I've seen the main characters fight with the desire that it be the last war ever or have an "everyone understanding eachother" type ideal going on. Like in Zeta, one of the AEUG's goals was to promote humanity to move into space so they would become newtypes, thus understanding each other and ending war.
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Old 2013-01-08, 17:01   Link #2414
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Here's how they should have distinguished the factions' morality levels in GSD:
  • White: TSA/Terminal
  • Gray: ZAFT/Minerva
  • Black: Earth Alliance
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Old 2013-01-08, 17:04   Link #2415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soaring Griffin View Post
How is it really different in seed's case. At the end of Seed the TSA started fighting the other factions to end the conflict and achieve peace, because if they didn't humanity would be destroyed.

Correct me if I'm wrong but from the shows I've seen the main characters fight with the desire that it be the last war ever or have an "everyone understanding eachother" type ideal going on. Like in Zeta, one of the AEUG's goals was to promote humanity to move into space so they would become newtypes, thus understanding each other and ending war.
1.) Kira and the others foolishly believed that THAT war would possibly be the end of ALL wars. (Much like how the Allies thought that WWI was such a thing.) Not so much with the others. They had the hope to end THAT war, but they weren't SO naive to think that their fighting would end it ALL though. Especially some others who have witnessed the darkness and corruption on each side.

2.) The AEUG's goal was simply to expose and stop the Titans from trying to rule the Earth Sphere with a corrupt iron fist while trying to get the Federation off their lazy butt to do something.

It was only Char's and maybe some other members' goal more specifically to have such a thing happen. But, as Amuro pointed out, Char got way too impatient after seeing the corruption of the Federation. Rather than wait for humanity to grow and evolve over time like Amuro believed should happen, Char tried to force it to happen by dropping asteroids onto Earth and try to make Earth uninhabitable, thus forcing all of mankind into space.

Yes, they may had an "understanding eachother" belief, but they believed it would happen over time. They weren't foolish enough to think it would happen in such a short period of time and those that did and tried to force it, like Char, ended up failing because of that impatience. And such people also seem to never think of the immediate consequences of their actions either.
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"Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning
"Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon
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Old 2013-01-08, 17:36   Link #2416
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Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera View Post
1.) Kira and the others foolishly believed that THAT war would possibly be the end of ALL wars. (Much like how the Allies thought that WWI was such a thing.) Not so much with the others. They had the hope to end THAT war, but they weren't SO naive to think that their fighting would end it ALL though. Especially some others who have witnessed the darkness and corruption on each side.
I don't remember them saying that once that war ended it would be the last. They only hoped after the war ended given time that natural and coordinator relations might improve or at least not degrade into a full on ethic cleansing war again.

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Yes, they may had an "understanding eachother" belief, but they believed it would happen over time. They weren't foolish enough to think it would happen in such a short period of time and those that did and tried to force it, like Char, ended up failing because of that impatience. And such people also seem to never think of the immediate consequences of their actions either.
I don't think anyone in Seed said that things would instantly get better between Naturals and Coordinators after the war. Only that it would have a chance to get better.
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Old 2013-01-08, 18:06   Link #2417
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Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher View Post
IF Kira just had died Shin would have been a better characters.
...I'll drop the anime if that happened. Glad it didn't. Shin fits well for a villain. He's a villain til the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soaring Griffin View Post
As for Kira and company's supposed hipocrisy, they're no more hypocritical then the usually gundam leads who fight to attain peace. Sometimes that's just what it takes.
Ain't that the purpose of all gundam series? It's the very reason why gundams exist.
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Old 2013-01-08, 19:43   Link #2418
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...I'll drop the anime if that happened. Glad it didn't. Shin fits well for a villain. He's a villain til the end.
What are some of the heelish things that Shinn has done, besides not being on Kira and Lacus's side, or questioning Athrun, despite him flip-flopping more than a politician?

I'd say that Shinn was more of an anti-heroic/shades of gray type of character.
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Old 2013-01-08, 19:47   Link #2419
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Originally Posted by Washu-Chan View Post
What are some of the heelish things that Shinn has done, besides not being on Kira and Lacus's side, or questioning Athrun, despite him flip-flopping more than a politician?

I'd say that Shinn was more of an anti-heroic/shades of gray type of character.
He killed and murdered good people and even nearly killing his lover and her sister....
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Old 2013-01-08, 21:53   Link #2420
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Ok there are a lot of things that can be said about Shinn, but he is not a flip-flopper..
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