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Old 2013-01-08, 14:54   Link #281
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gibits View Post
Naruto kicked Pain's ass. No mercy was given to Naruto. Give credit where it is due.
Never said anything about the puppets. Nagato gave up. Whether it can be seen as an act of mercy or not is debatable, but he still gave up (and for stupid reasons).
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Old 2013-01-08, 14:55   Link #282
winteragain
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Reading these post its pretty amazing how all you guys contribute to this tread. Alot of thought behind each opinion and how as fans we look into making predictions.

1) Who will do it ?
2) How it will be done?
3) Why it will be done by that method or series of actions?

Then combining 1 to 3 and analyzing if that possibility is consistent with what Kishi likes or has done by comparison to his past chapters?

Then finally arguing if that would yield a good chapter in terms of story progression. This is an amazing intellectual debate. If only I put in this much work into school..hahah wow just blows me away when i see this. Cool part is we do it every week and its fun.

---
I do have a question for those really good at prediction..is the manga still fun to read when you are on point with how the major turn of events will be like?

Like the part where most would probably see this talk no jutsu with Obito going down for Alliance's benefit. Or is each week just more for "I am still waiting for that rare chapter that completely does something unexpected from what I thought."
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Old 2013-01-08, 15:00   Link #283
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^ Reading because I want to see the end. I have given up on Kishi surprising me with a good chapter
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Old 2013-01-08, 15:10   Link #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Sasori helped capture a bijuu. That instantly makes him important (instantly more important than anything any of the zombies have done).
Deidara did that, Sasori just defeated Kankuro (and fucked that up). The one single thing that made Sasori looks important was his membership of Akatsuki. He was a well made character and he had a good (if way too long) fight but he wasn't important to the plot, you can remove him entirely and absolutely nothing change in the story.
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Of the Konoha characters, her one battle easily outranks all other characters save for Shikimaru no matter their amount of battles.
In term of exposition panel for panel yes, in term of strength certainly not and while the former is more important than the later it fades in time. To put it this way it's like saying Tien Shinhan from Dragon Ball easily outranks all other characters at the end of the story because he once fought the main character in to a standstill. It's just old news.
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That is a fair point, and I do not disagree with the generality of the statement. Sakura is in a unique situation though, because she was an actual main character that has been foisted off to the background. I do expect Kishimoto to simply cast her aside (I'm more than willing to acknowledge that Kishimoto doesn't care anymore), but in a short time all of Team 7 will be on the battlefield, and that could be (and I hope it is) the moment Sakura becomes relevant again.
That's not quite true, Sakura was meant to be a main character but the author never managed to amount it to anything. She was at most a damsel in distress and at worse not even there, the Sasori event made us believe she finally might become more than that but it never went anywhere. Basically all I'm saying is that based on her bleak past I wouldn't predict her a bright future.
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Uhhh, I just don't feel any frustration at the fact that Sakura isn't fighting. Really, to me there just isn't any problem here.
The fact that you don't see it because "she's doing her job" was my point exactly.
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Originally Posted by gibits View Post
Hunter: I'm going to have to disagree with you. Hinata barely fights at all and yet she has been quite impactful in this shonen series.
I don't think she has. Hinata has a role in this story yes, and that's more than Sakura can boast which is a testament to the sad state of her character but save from this small niche Hinata is really not that important in the story.
Quote:
Sakura's uselessness isn't due to lack of fighting, it is due to lack of progression. She started part 2 strong with the killing of Sasori but then just withered on the vine.
Which is pretty much what I said when you come down to it.
Why did she start strong? Because of her fight. Why did she wither after that? Because she did nothing afterward.
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Old 2013-01-08, 15:23   Link #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
The fact that you don't see it because "she's doing her job" was my point exactly.
Also I am wondering why people want to see her fight so badly. I mean, it's not like anyone here ever cared about her or anything? At least I've never seen anyone care.
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Old 2013-01-08, 15:39   Link #286
gibits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Never said anything about the puppets. Nagato gave up. Whether it can be seen as an act of mercy or not is debatable, but he still gave up (and for stupid reasons).
How much of a fight could Nagato have put up? He had a good showing against Itachi, Naruto and B but that was after he healed himself on lots of 8 and 9 tails' chakra. That wasn't really an option against Naruto at the time.
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Old 2013-01-08, 15:42   Link #287
Shay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winteragain View Post
Reading these post its pretty amazing how all you guys contribute to this tread. Alot of thought behind each opinion and how as fans we look into making predictions.

1) Who will do it ?
2) How it will be done?
3) Why it will be done by that method or series of actions?

Then combining 1 to 3 and analyzing if that possibility is consistent with what Kishi likes or has done by comparison to his past chapters?

Then finally arguing if that would yield a good chapter in terms of story progression. This is an amazing intellectual debate. If only I put in this much work into school..hahah wow just blows me away when i see this. Cool part is we do it every week and its fun.

---
I do have a question for those really good at prediction..is the manga still fun to read when you are on point with how the major turn of events will be like?

Like the part where most would probably see this talk no jutsu with Obito going down for Alliance's benefit. Or is each week just more for "I am still waiting for that rare chapter that completely does something unexpected from what I thought."
after following this series for six years now im just waiting for the end now. all my forum fun with naruto has long past. i think the shit loads filler ruined it for me big time as transitioned from anime to manga. plus had a family lol
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Old 2013-01-08, 16:11   Link #288
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gibits View Post
How much of a fight could Nagato have put up?
Considering the fact that he brought hundreds of people back to life moments after talking with Naruto, it is obvious Nagato never lacked for power. And since then we have seen even more amazing abilities of the Rinnegan (though some of them seem to be used with the MS). No, Nagato gave up; and while he did give up for a reason (albeit a really shitty one), he still gave up.
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Old 2013-01-08, 16:14   Link #289
Dengar
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.... Are you serious? If Nagato put up any kind of fight he wouldn't have lasted long. Did you even SEE the state he was in?
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Old 2013-01-08, 16:50   Link #290
james0246
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
.... Are you serious? If Nagato put up any kind of fight he wouldn't have lasted long. Did you even SEE the state he was in?
Considering Nagato and Konan (who didn't fight, but conceivably could have dealt some serious damage) were fairly confident that Nagato could still defeat Naruto (with or without the controlling rods), yes Nagato gave up. It was Naruto's words which inspired Nagato to stop fighting, not that Naruto was the stronger opponent.
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Old 2013-01-08, 17:08   Link #291
gibits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Considering Nagato and Konan (who didn't fight, but conceivably could have dealt some serious damage) were fairly confident that Nagato could still defeat Naruto (with or without the controlling rods), yes Nagato gave up. It was Naruto's words which inspired Nagato to stop fighting, not that Naruto was the stronger opponent.
Nagato couldn't even walk on his own, his ribs were all sticking out, coughing blood and just looked like shit.
He didn't give up either, he tried to impale Nauto with a rod but was overpowered, and he even was surprised that Naruto could resist his control at basically point blank range.

To say Nagato just gave up is not very valid. To say he did dumb things to contribute to his lose is. He didn't have to destroy the village, but he did just to prove a point. If he had his gravity powers from the start Naruto would not have killed 4 of the 6 Pains. He didn't have to have a talk with Naruto when he had him pinned down. He made mistakes, but he never just quit like you say.

Naruto won based on his own strength and a bit of Nagato making some silly mistakes. Not out of pity.
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Old 2013-01-08, 17:34   Link #292
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^Again, Nagato had the sheer power to still bring back hundreds if not thousands of lives. To claim that Nagato was weak when he still had the power of life or death in his hand is false. And, as we've seen with the edo tensei Nagato, he still possessed all the powers of the Six Paths (rockets, summons, etc), and he could have still used Deva's powers. Etc. Nagato's body may have been destroyed, but his eyes were still fine, and in Naruto all that matters are the eyes...
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Old 2013-01-08, 17:34   Link #293
amaterasu4
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Even Konan was getting nervous in that scene. She started coming up with arguments to make it look as since Naruto did not plan to kill him he just had to bring himself.

The only thing Nagato could in that state was throwing another spike which barely affected Naruto. As a zombie Nagato did better because he absorbed Killer Bee's chakra and regained his physical state.
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Old 2013-01-08, 18:07   Link #294
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Throwing that spike out was his last ditch attempt to get Naruto. It basically shows he still was trying to get Naruto and it would have worked if naruto wasn't so strong. That one action shows he was trying. So what if he could bring back the dead, that hardly helps him against Naruto and not indicative of his combat abilities at that time. His last once of life was used to do one jutsu that would not have hurt Naruto....
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Old 2013-01-08, 18:25   Link #295
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Technically you're both right...

Nagato didn't really give up, but at the same time he was stronger then and did defeat naruto...

Nagato already took on the whole leaf village and won by the time naruto came on the scene..

Then nagato beat a overly prepared sage mode naruto and all of his summons, and had him pinned to the ground basically finished.

Naruto then had to be saved by hinata, then was possessed by the kyuubi..which doesn't count as naruto because it wasn't his power nor was he in control of it...

Then nagato fought against and held his own against a nearly fully transformed kyuubi, and still had enough power to go head to head with sage naruto after that although deva path was eventually beat in that fight..

Then nagato STILL had enough power left to resurrect a whole village..

The point is nagato didn't give up, but he definitely wasn't beaten by naruto either...nagato is light years ahead of sage mode naruto in power.
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Old 2013-01-08, 20:17   Link #296
amaterasu4
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I think the issue was that Nagato's only means of fighting was through the Six Paths of Pain but they became useless when Naruto removed all their spikes. According to Konan, the old Nagato was the Seventh Path and his ability was using the Gedo Rinne no Jutsu while the other Six Paths had offensive moves.
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Old 2013-01-08, 21:26   Link #297
Hunter
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Also I am wondering why people want to see her fight so badly. I mean, it's not like anyone here ever cared about her or anything? At least I've never seen anyone care.
Nobody or very , very few care anymore, but the discussion is about where and why Sakura's characterization went wrong. I'd be perfectly fine if we never saw her again but I'd have preferred her character to be handled differently in the past so she wouldn't be this waste of place now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibits View Post
That one action shows he was trying. So what if he could bring back the dead, that hardly helps him against Naruto and not indicative of his combat abilities at that time. His last once of life was used to do one jutsu that would not have hurt Naruto....
James's point is that if Nagato had still enough power to revive hundreds of people he also had enough power to hurt Naruto with the rest of his abilities if he so wished.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
According to Konan, the old Nagato was the Seventh Path and his ability was using the Gedo Rinne no Jutsu while the other Six Paths had offensive moves.
Nagato has all the power of his puppets at his disposal.
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Old 2013-01-08, 23:23   Link #298
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post

James's point is that if Nagato had still enough power to revive hundreds of people he also had enough power to hurt Naruto with the rest of his abilities if he so wished.
I know what his point was, I just disagree with the conclusion. We don't know how chakra intensive the revive jutsu is. All we know for sure is that it costs one's life and it needs the eyes. That's it. We also know he has used chakra to the a severe enough point that he was coughing up blood and even Konan was worried.
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Old 2013-01-09, 05:49   Link #299
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is there gonna be a naruto chapter this week?
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Old 2013-01-09, 06:10   Link #300
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Doubt it >>> maybe next one?
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