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Old 2013-01-09, 06:32   Link #301
Om Nerabdator
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damn 2 weeks without one....i hate christmas
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Old 2013-01-09, 07:07   Link #302
amaterasu4
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Dumb Grinch should have stolen Christmas.
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Old 2013-01-09, 08:20   Link #303
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Originally Posted by Om Nerabdator View Post
damn 2 weeks without one....i hate christmas
I read a manga called Berserk that takes months for a new chapter to come out and Claymore takes a a long time. So waiting 2 weeks for a Naruto chapter doesn't seem that long to me but I would prefer it to come out every week.


Comparing Hinata and Ino's feats in the war to Sakura's war feats makes Sakura look like a side character. For example Sakura has Kakashi save her from Ten Tails mokuton rods while Hinata just knocks a mokuton rod away from hitting Naruto with gentle fist.

Sakura gets to punch a Zetsu while Ino mind controls Obito to redirect a biju bomb and she mind controlled Ginkaku which made it easier to seal him.

I'm still expecting Sakura to do more later in the war simply since she's meant to be the main female character, she may do something more when Sasuke is involved.

Last edited by TimeMask; 2013-01-09 at 12:27.
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Old 2013-01-09, 11:11   Link #304
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Hinata has already proven that she makes a far better heroine than Sakura. Ino would make a better heroine than Sakura.
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Old 2013-01-09, 11:50   Link #305
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Originally Posted by Shinso Tsukune View Post
Hinata has already proven that she makes a far better heroine than Sakura. Ino would make a better heroine than Sakura.
The only thing Hinata has ever proved is that she is good at pep talks and jumping in front of blows intended for Naruto. She is a cheerleader and a love interest, not a heroine.

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I know what his point was, I just disagree with the conclusion. We don't know how chakra intensive the revive jutsu is. All we know for sure is that it costs one's life and it needs the eyes. That's it. We also know he has used chakra to the a severe enough point that he was coughing up blood and even Konan was worried.
That seems like a silly supposition. Do you really think reviving the dead (let alone hundreds if not thousands) is that undemanding? No one doubts Nagato was hurting (from overuse of many chakra intensive techniques), but you are more or less arguing that everything from the moment Naruto actually met Nagato was just a giant bluff on Nagato and Konan's part. That they could do nothing, so they were trying to get Naruto to just surrender with their words.

Which makes more sense to you, both opponents are in a position of power and one managed to sway the other through their words, or one of them was just a weak gimp and was trying to bluff their way through a potential fight?

Nagato gave into Naruto because he believed in Naruto. He still had all the powers of Pain (the edo tensei confirmed this), he still had amazing levels of power (reviving hundreds confirms this), and he still had powerful backup (Konan may not have had her quadrillion exploding tags, but she was still a force to be reckoned with). Naruto did not defeat Nagato through power, Naruto defeated Nagato by making Nagato believe in Naruto. Nagato relinquished his beliefs. He gave up.
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Old 2013-01-09, 11:53   Link #306
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
The only thing Hinata has ever proved is that she is good at pep talks and jumping in front of blows intended for Naruto. She is a cheerleader and a love interest, not a heroine.
Even though Hinata isn't a heroine, she has done enough to prove herself to be a great heroine. I have a lot of respect for her and for what she has done. She isn't just some cheerleader or love interest, she is a hell of a lot more than that.
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Old 2013-01-09, 12:18   Link #307
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This is something I was curious about. Why wasn't Obito able to awake his own Rinnegan? He already had the Mokuton skills and the Mangekyo Sharigan (that actually never made him tired) yet he had to take Madara's original eyes from Nagato. Is there an extra requirement to have the Rinnegan?
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Old 2013-01-09, 12:27   Link #308
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This is something I was curious about. Why wasn't Obito able to awake his own Rinnegan? He already had the Mokuton skills and the Mangekyo Sharigan (that actually never made him tired) yet he had to take Madara's original eyes from Nagato. Is there an extra requirement to have the Rinnegan?
Madara had EMS then got rinnegan so EMS may be a requirement to get Rinnegan unless the Ten Tails chakra gave Rikduo Sennin rinnegan.

Its hard to say as Madara was very old when he got rinnegan so his EMS didn't just turn into rinnegan quickly when he got Senju DNA.
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Old 2013-01-09, 13:19   Link #309
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Madara was almost dead by the time he awakened the rinnegan.

Also, I don't think something like Rinne Tensei actually uses up chakra. It seems to use up something completely different.

Besides, it's pretty ludicrous to believe that Konan and/or Nagato could've beaten Naruto.
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Old 2013-01-09, 13:23   Link #310
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Madara was almost dead by the time he awakened the rinnegan.

Also, I don't think something like Rinne Tensei actually uses up chakra. It seems to use up something completely different.

Besides, it's pretty ludicrous to believe that Konan and/or Nagato could've beaten Naruto.
I think if Nagato didn't use that jutsu that destroyed the village, he could have beaten Naruto with ease. It used up all his chakra and he was down to 1 path instead of 6. If he could beat Jiraiya i really doubt he would have trouble beating naruto.
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Old 2013-01-09, 13:38   Link #311
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Originally Posted by Shinso Tsukune View Post
Even though Hinata isn't a heroine, she has done enough to prove herself to be a great heroine. I have a lot of respect for her and for what she has done. She isn't just some cheerleader or love interest, she is a hell of a lot more than that.
Hinata has had some great emotional moments, and she deserves some respect for those moments. But she is not a mover or a shaker. Her actions could have been performed by almost anyone with a strong connection to Naruto. She just happens to be the pretty face that Kishimoto designed for that purpose.

I am not saying that a good heroine has to be some kickass cool character that always wins her fights. Rather, she has to be an independent character that can exist beyond the realm of shipping (this is a basic idea geared toward Naruto in particular). Hinata does not really exist beyond Naruto (imho), consequently I do not see her as being a heroine (or at least a good one).
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Old 2013-01-09, 14:41   Link #312
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There really aren't that many characters who aren't some kind of foil for Naruto.

The ones that aren't are like tertiary characters who are foil for the secondary characters. Some of the foil actually has its own foil (looking at Shikamaru).
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Old 2013-01-09, 15:08   Link #313
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Also, I don't think something like Rinne Tensei actually uses up chakra. It seems to use up something completely different.
It was stated by Konan that Nagato will die if he uses the revival jutsu with the low chakra he had at that point. She also stated that the rinnegan gives him power over life and death, so that means revival of people recently died should not cost him his life, only an amount of chakra. But the requirement there was that he can revive only those who recently died. Obito is in a different position, Madara died a long ago, so it seems that to revive him Obito would have to give up his life. We also don't know if the Uzumaki bloodline gives more power to those eyes, but it can't be a coincidence that Madara chose an Uzumaki.

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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Besides, it's pretty ludicrous to believe that Konan and/or Nagato could've beaten Naruto.
They could have, Naruto was already very tired at that point. A short time later we saw him collapsing and Kakashi had to take him back to Konoha. As opposed to that Konan had her full power and Nagato's power was not weakened by remote control power attenuation. He was low on chakra but he still had a considerable amount since he could revive masses of people in a remote location. Imagine if he summoned the Gedo Mazo and went on it's head then used it to crush Naruto and the remains of Konoha. Or he could have sucked out Naruto's soul if he gave up on capturing him.
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Old 2013-01-09, 16:15   Link #314
gibits
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
It was stated by Konan that Nagato will die if he uses the revival jutsu with the low chakra he had at that point. She also stated that the rinnegan gives him power over life and death, so that means revival of people recently died should not cost him his life, only an amount of chakra. But the requirement there was that he can revive only those who recently died. Obito is in a different position, Madara died a long ago, so it seems that to revive him Obito would have to give up his life. We also don't know if the Uzumaki bloodline gives more power to those eyes, but it can't be a coincidence that Madara chose an Uzumaki.
Yet I interpertp that as more proof that Nagato was basically spent. Nothing that I have read says that recently dead people can be revived via without the user sacrificing himself. Konan's statement simply states he could raise the dead, you are inferring no sacrifice is needed. Where are you coming up with this conclusion?

Quote:
They could have, Naruto was already very tired at that point. A short time later we saw him collapsing and Kakashi had to take him back to Konoha. As opposed to that Konan had her full power and Nagato's power was not weakened by remote control power attenuation. He was low on chakra but he still had a considerable amount since he could revive masses of people in a remote location. Imagine if he summoned the Gedo Mazo and went on it's head then used it to crush Naruto and the remains of Konoha. Or he could have sucked out Naruto's soul if he gave up on capturing him.
Naruto might have been tired but he had plenty of gas left in the tank. At one point he had both Kurama's charkra while in sage mode. Konan might have been at full power but against Naruto I highly doubt it would have mattered.

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I don't think she has. Hinata has a role in this story yes, and that's more than Sakura can boast which is a testament to the sad state of her character but save from this small niche Hinata is really not that important in the story.
I mention Hinata because Sakura could have gotten the same treatment; not fight but still be important. And I would say Hinata is rather important, Naruto even said so himself: "Because you were by my side this whole time"

You can argue how much this subplot matters to YOU, but it is pretty clear Kishi wants it to matter.

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Which is pretty much what I said when you come down to it.
Why did she start strong? Because of her fight. Why did she wither after that? Because she did nothing afterward.
No, she not only didn't fight, she does nothing AND hinders our protaganist. In fact the latter is the real reason many dislike her characterization. Plenty of characters don't do much but their characters are not nearly as maligned.

I think when it comes down to it, we both feel Sakura is a wasted opportunity on Kishi's part. We just disagree on why and how to fix it.

Last edited by james0246; 2013-01-09 at 16:41. Reason: double post...
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Old 2013-01-09, 17:20   Link #315
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There really aren't that many characters who aren't some kind of foil for Naruto.

The ones that aren't are like tertiary characters who are foil for the secondary characters. Some of the foil actually has its own foil (looking at Shikamaru).
Yeah Shikamaru can be considered a foil to Naruto in that Shikarmaru is a genius / serious and Kishimoto sometimes makes Naruto look silly. Like on the giant turtle island when Naruto took so long to realize something was wrong with a S rank mission for animal genders.

It was obvious that a animal mission like that wouldn't be S rank and even when the turtle was flipped upside down by Edo Deidara explosion Naruto still didn't realize how obvious it wasn't a real S rank mission.

I think Kishimoto showed Naruto like this maybe for comedy purposes and since he wanted Naruto on the turtle island.
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Old 2013-01-09, 20:07   Link #316
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You are vastly overestimating the power of sage mode naruto if you believe he could have beaten konan at full power and a weakened nagato after his battle with the 6 paths. Naruto was on his last leg just like nagato was...in fact i would even say he had less chakra then the weakened nagato did...

Saying naruto would have beat konan by herself when they met face to face, is like saying the exhausted ms sasuke would have beaten the mizukage if their lil skirmish had continued...at full power ms sasuke would beat the mizukage, just like at full power sage mode naruto would have beaten konan...but just like what happened to sasuke, konan would have wiped the floor with naruto...let alone you still have nagato there with enough power to resurrect an entire village....

It is absolutely ridiculous to think naruto would have lasted even 2 minutes against them...


That fight ended with talk no jutsu...not narutos power.
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Old 2013-01-09, 20:40   Link #317
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You are vastly overestimating the power of sage mode naruto if you believe he could have beaten konan at full power and a weakened nagato after his battle with the 6 paths. Naruto was on his last leg just like nagato was...in fact i would even say he had less chakra then the weakened nagato did...

Saying naruto would have beat konan by herself when they met face to face, is like saying the exhausted ms sasuke would have beaten the mizukage if their lil skirmish had continued...at full power ms sasuke would beat the mizukage, just like at full power sage mode naruto would have beaten konan...but just like what happened to sasuke, konan would have wiped the floor with naruto...let alone you still have nagato there with enough power to resurrect an entire village....

It is absolutely ridiculous to think naruto would have lasted even 2 minutes against them...



That fight ended with talk no jutsu...not narutos power.
Dude Naruto still had the nine tails to fall back on should anything random would have happened.
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Old 2013-01-10, 03:07   Link #318
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^ Yeah, fall back on the nine-tails when his dad just stopped it from consuming Naruto. Good plan.

I seriously cannot fathom the exaggeration of Naruto's power. So you are basically saying that he will beat anyone regardless of how spent he is, regardless of how much power the enemy has? And tossing aside Nagato's power to revive an entire village as something inconsequential is utterly stupid.
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Old 2013-01-10, 03:38   Link #319
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^ Yeah, fall back on the nine-tails when his dad just stopped it from consuming Naruto. Good plan.

I seriously cannot fathom the exaggeration of Naruto's power. So you are basically saying that he will beat anyone regardless of how spent he is, regardless of how much power the enemy has? And tossing aside Nagato's power to revive an entire village as something inconsequential is utterly stupid.
Okay I can concede that maybe Nagato wasn't spent. I can also concede that maybe there was fight in Konan and Nagato. Would that have resulted in a win? I can't say for certain, but IMO no.

On the other hand I think it is fair to say Naruto had plenty left in the tank. You scoff at him using Kurama's chakra.... Why? He has been using it since his fight with Haku, if anyone is dismissing facts to win an Internet arguement it is you. Naruto and his second source of chakra have been front and center all series, are we even reading the same manga?
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Old 2013-01-10, 05:12   Link #320
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^ Ever heard of "context"? Yeah, I think not.

I was not scoffing at Naruto using Kurama's chakra. I was replying to the poster above me who suggested that Naruto could rely on Kurama's chakra when a few moments ago his Dad stopped him from doing the exact same thing because Naruto wasn't ready.

And yes, Naruto is God in this manga. Even after getting the hell beat out of him he still has plenty left in him to pwn Nagato and Konan


EDIT: And who said anything about winning an argument? I'm not here for pettiness like that. You can believe whatever the hell you want. I'm here to state my opinion, not to convince someone to change theirs.
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Last edited by Eragon; 2013-01-10 at 05:32.
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