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Old 2013-01-10, 05:25   Link #21
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
Everything has been done before. I'm not sure what you mean.
Well, its pretty obvious now... unlike in those days...
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Old 2013-01-10, 05:48   Link #22
Ichihara Asako
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No matter how much people say anime is declining, I've managed to find at least one very enjoyable series every season and always at least one great series every year... for at least the past decade. It's not that there's less good stuff, it's that there's more mediocre stuff. People seem to forget how much is being made now compared to a decade (or especially more) ago.
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Old 2013-01-10, 07:55   Link #23
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As many people pointed out, this thread has been done over and over and over in recent years, months, and even weeks and -- frankly -- it's been done much better too. Or, I could say... I generally think that most of these threads are garbage, and this one shamelessly adheres to cliche arguments and archetypes. It's that bad.

To the specific point raised by the OP:
- 10 years ago, you didn't have access to the entire unfiltered spectrum of anime airing in Japan within days of airing (chances are, you were watching the filtered selection of the "best of the best" chosen by licensors to probably appeal to your tastes).
- 10 years ago, there wasn't nearly as many anime as there are now anyway
- 10 years ago, you were probably a lot less jaded (even if you always thought that "most anime sucked").

In other words:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichihara Asako View Post
No matter how much people say anime is declining, I've managed to find at least one very enjoyable series every season and always at least one great series every year... for at least the past decade. It's not that there's less good stuff, it's that there's more mediocre stuff. People seem to forget how much is being made now compared to a decade (or especially more) ago.
Bingo.


It may very well be that it's time to move on. Or at least to be a lot more picky about what you watch and not just give anything and everything a chance just because you're somehow loyal to "anime" as a medium.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eragon View Post
Maybe we should ask why so many of these threads are coming up recently - or, I may be wrong and these type of threads were always prevalent ?
They basically come up at least once or twice each anime season. I'm not sure if they're really that much more prevalent than they ever have been. There is a sort of natural attrition cycle as people get older and, no matter what the year, some people always believe that anime today is worse than ever -- more cliché, less original, less good, less appealing, and so on.

The only thing that would be interesting about compiling all the similar threads together would be to see how little the argument has changed no matter who is making it in what year.


Anyway... thread locked.
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Old 2013-01-10, 13:18   Link #24
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Anime, as I see it.

I'll start by apologizing for making another thread but my last effort was abruptly locked (while I was within the confines of the rules) and I'm not going to just accept a "you're wrong, this is why your wrong, now I'm taking the ball and going home" response I received at the end of the thread. I wasn't given a solid opportunity to defend my argument.

To keep this brief so I'm not writing out my life's story, I'll just respond to the posts from the last thread. They were pretty good responses and should sum up my feelings quite a bit.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...97&postcount=2
This is a fair argument that I mostly agree with. You just can't watch everything, deem most of it as crap, and then wonder why anime isn't "as good" as it should be. I get that. You're not going to like EVERYTHING, nor do I personally expect to, I just feel like the negatives that have always been a part of anime have legitimately gotten worse over time. What negatives do I speak of? Here's a few.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...07&postcount=3
Well, sure. I have 10+ years of anime to fall back on and I'd like to think I've seen about 80% of the undisputed great series.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...13&postcount=5
Yep, and I have been meticulously choosing my series lately, and more and more I'm finding the same issues with each show. The line between good and bad is blurring and below I'll detail why it isn't because I'm "getting older" (such a lazy argument if I do say so myself).

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...2&postcount=23
Quote:
- 10 years ago, you didn't have access to the entire unfiltered spectrum of anime airing in Japan within days of airing (chances are, you were watching the filtered selection of the "best of the best" chosen by licensors to probably appeal to your tastes).
Very true, solid point.

Quote:
- 10 years ago, there wasn't nearly as many anime as there are now anyway
True again.

Quote:
- 10 years ago, you were probably a lot less jaded (even if you always thought that "most anime sucked").
I'm definitely more jaded now but if that was the underlying factor behind my feelings today then why am I able to go back and watch every single series I enjoyed over the years? Whether it's K-ON! or a more highly acclaimed series like Evangelion, I've always felt like I was in tune with my tastes whether I'm 10 years old or 20. Is it natural to grow older and feel differently about what you once enjoyed? Yes, but I've never been that way when it comes to most things. I picked up anime on my own, found aspects of the medium I enjoyed, and that has not wavered.

Read between the lines, by no means am I saying "anime fucking sucks aye? Why the hell am I still watching it?" According to some, I should at least be saying the second part rather than blaming the industry. An industry that has never been reliable in terms of quality, an industry that's intended for a Japanese audience rather than Americans.

My issue was never in selecting a decent series to watch, it's that now I can't FIND a decent series to watch that isn't filled with the same nonsense from the last season, and the season before, or overblown to be something it's not (fans are overhyping the hell out of the sorriest shows lately, but that's another argument entirely). I recently picked up Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo, a show that is by no means a stand out but somehow it appeals to me. Not because of the fanservice (which I was never a fan of beyond 14, I mean they're cartoons why should I be gawking over it?) it's because the series somehow manages to do what other shows refuse to do: touch of issues all young adults can relate to. That's all it takes, and I don't believe I'm asking for a whole lot in that department.
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Old 2013-01-10, 13:42   Link #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Write View Post
I'll start by apologizing for making another thread but my last effort was abruptly locked (while I was within the confines of the rules) and I'm not going to just accept a "you're wrong, this is why your wrong, now I'm taking the ball and going home" response I received at the end of the thread. I wasn't given a solid opportunity to defend my argument.
And that's why you should have seized it when you first started. First impressions are important and starting the journey out on defense always results in defeat.

It's not that I disagree with your point or agree with it in particular. The problem is that your point is too broad and vague, resulting in it falling in the other 643634 thread about the issue.

For example, I could say, "well, what about anime like Fate/Zero, Sakamichi no Apollon, and Wandering Son?" Or anime like Mawaru Penguindrum. But that answers nothing. I don't know what aspect in anime beyond the cliche complaint about cliches and fanservice is causing the problem. Thus it is just like shouting into an open field about something and nothing happening.

Such large generalizations about the whole of anime are worthless. It's better if you rethought the topic by focusing exclusively on one aspect. Otherwise we get a lot of "yes it is" and no it's not.

Look at something like Evangelion, and then compare it to something like its Rebuild Counterpart. What has changed? That is something to talk about.

Maybe you could talk about the excessive consumerism that's happening by looking at anime that seems exclusively marketed to sell a trend. Granted, this medium has always been extremely materialistic, but some anime might have dropped all pretense of telling a story.
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Old 2013-01-10, 13:45   Link #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Write View Post
Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo
Interesting taste. SakuraPet is also my favorite currently running anime. While it has a few aspects I dislike, such as the typical anime misunderstandings and a main character who won't stop compulsively yelling, its conflicts, romance and characters feel very genuine to me.

Well, the most popular anime around these parts are late-night anime, and most late-night anime are marketed to very niche demographics with particular tastes. That's why you'll find many similarities in character archetypes, fanservice, settings, and even plot progression.

If you're searching for anime that don't adhere to these elements, maybe you should make a thread in the suggestions subforum, specifying exactly what you're looking for (or not looking for). I'd gladly help you out.
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Old 2013-01-10, 13:51   Link #27
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Such large generalizations about the whole of anime are worthless. It's better if you rethought the topic by focusing exclusively on one aspect. Otherwise we get a lot of "yes it is" and no it's not.
I'm probably going off on another broad tangent here but I believe vast amounts of unfiltered anime has warped a considerable amount of the fanbase into thinking terrible, cliche ideas are "good".

When I see people gawk over fanservice and cite that as the main reason they watch...Ikki Tousen for example, I'm genuinely appalled. THAT is why you watch anime? I'm all for diverse opinions but unless you're 13 I think it's a waste of all that is good about the medium.

The same goes for uninteresting stories and characters, these are all things i'm screaming into the field about. It's just terrible and fans are praising the shittiest of series season after season. I don't think we know what's good anymore.
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Old 2013-01-10, 13:55   Link #28
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Yeah I'd also suggest making a thread in the suggestion forum.

Have you tried out shows like chihayafuru,jinrui wa suitai shimashita,hyouge mono,space brothers,jojo's bizare adventures,psycho pass...
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Old 2013-01-10, 13:56   Link #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Write View Post
I'm probably going off on another broad tangent here but I believe vast amounts of unfiltered anime has warped a considerable amount of the fanbase into thinking terrible, cliche ideas are "good".

When I see people gawk over fanservice and cite that as the main reason they watch...Ikki Tousen for example, I'm genuinely appalled. THAT is why you watch anime? I'm all for diverse opinions but unless you're 13 I think it's a waste of all that is good about the medium.

The same goes for uninteresting stories and characters, these are all things i'm screaming into the field about. It's just terrible and fans are praising the shittiest of series season after season. I don't think we know what's good anymore.
Gratuitous fanservice is a staple of anime, like it or not. Hell, in the 80s they didn't censor as much as they do now.

But you see, there's some more interesting discussion that could be had. For example, consider that fanservice is an excessive selling feature that they'll half ass it only to market it on bluray.

Well, you could bring up highly acclaimed series that have highly uninteresting characters. At least why you think so. My point is to be more specific.

And also, is fan reaction that important?
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Old 2013-01-10, 14:10   Link #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Write View Post
I'm probably going off on another broad tangent here but I believe vast amounts of unfiltered anime has warped a considerable amount of the fanbase into thinking terrible, cliche ideas are "good".

When I see people gawk over fanservice and cite that as the main reason they watch...Ikki Tousen for example, I'm genuinely appalled. THAT is why you watch anime?
For various reasons, many people prefer animated erotic material to the real "3D" thing. And there will always be a large market for erotic material.

I myself am sometimes surprised at how much discussion a short fanservicey scene can spur on, but I'm not surprised that a lot of people like it (and I myself sometimes like it); I'm just surprised that they find much to say about it.

But it's not like the Ikki Tousens of the world are the only anime shows out there - In fact, they're probably just a corner of them.

As other members have pointed out, there are a wide variety of anime shows out there right now, it's just that some of them are more obscure than others and don't have the benefit of Anime Suki subforums (or the like).

But even amongst those with subforums, you might find yourself liking something like Psycho-Pass, for example.
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Old 2013-01-10, 14:10   Link #31
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Well, you could bring up highly acclaimed series that have highly uninteresting characters. At least why you think so. My point is to be more specific.
I did, with K-ON!, which isn't exactly acclaimed for being the most intriguining show in history but is popular none the less. It's one of my most enjoyable series by far with the cast all being broad shades of cute, fun, and comedic. It's the writing I appreciate, and I find the dialogue to be very clever unlike a lot of shows. I've always felt this way though: just give me SOMETHING to appreciate, something to latch on to and I'm watching the show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
And also, is fan reaction that important?
Not for anyone outside of Japan. As an America viewer I feel like anime is the most "take it or leave it" medium I've ever indulged in. Aside from a few very bleak instances we have no say. Be that as it may I think the industry deserves a lot more harsh of an analysis than we've been accustomed to giving as fans.
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Yeah I'd also suggest making a thread in the suggestion forum.

Have you tried out shows like chihayafuru,jinrui wa suitai shimashita,hyouge mono,space brothers,jojo's bizare adventures,psycho pass...
All shows I've put on a backlog. It's more of a time issue than anything else.
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Old 2013-01-10, 14:17   Link #32
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Originally Posted by Write View Post
I did, with K-ON!, which isn't exactly acclaimed for being the most intriguining show in history but is popular none the less. It's one of my most enjoyable series by far with the cast all being broad shades of cute, fun, and comedic. It's the writing I appreciate, and I find the dialogue to be very clever unlike a lot of shows. I've always felt this way though: just give me SOMETHING to appreciate, something to latch on to and I'm watching the show.
You like moe, but you don't like ecchi. That's interesting.

I recommend ~Tamayura Hitotose~. It should be right up your alley, albeit a bit on the drama side.

There's some chance you'll like Natsuiro Kiseki.
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Old 2013-01-10, 14:22   Link #33
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I'm still not seeing why you are frustrated. I mean most of the shows that totoum suggested are good or at least don't have the things you dislike. Isn't that good enough? I mean, you can't expect every show to be like that. Is the popularity of shows you don't like that's bothering you?
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Old 2013-01-10, 14:30   Link #34
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I'm still not seeing why you are frustrated. I mean most of the shows that totoum suggested are good or at least don't have the things you dislike. Isn't that good enough? I mean, you can't expect every show to be like that. Is the popularity of shows you don't like that's bothering you?
You're right.

It's probably the fact the last couple of seasons haven't been stellar to me, so I've turned my criticisms to fans who find 5, 6, 7 shows they like while I'm looking at 3, 2, or 1 series that peaks my interest.

Also my habit of going for my guilty pleasures, while putting quality shows on a backlist isn't doing me any favors.
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Old 2013-01-10, 14:34   Link #35
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Originally Posted by Write View Post
I did, with K-ON!, which isn't exactly acclaimed for being the most intriguining show in history but is popular none the less. It's one of my most enjoyable series by far with the cast all being broad shades of cute, fun, and comedic. It's the writing I appreciate, and I find the dialogue to be very clever unlike a lot of shows. I've always felt this way though: just give me SOMETHING to appreciate, something to latch on to and I'm watching the show.
Then I don't see the problem here. If you liked freaking K-On, it shouldn't be too difficult to find other recent anime you're interested in. I'd like to give you recommendations for anime right now, but I'll hold back this time since this is a discussion thread.

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All shows I've put on a backlog. It's more of a time issue than anything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Write View Post
Also my habit of going for my guilty pleasures, while putting quality shows on a backlist isn't doing me any favors.
Nobody here can help you with that. Either make an effort to watch more anime, or resign yourself to watching it in a limited time frame per day.
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Old 2013-01-10, 15:08   Link #36
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Old 2013-01-10, 15:43   Link #37
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The original thread was locked because this topic is cyclic and repetitive. Creating yet another new thread to carry on the same discussion doesn't exactly make it better, even if better explanations are provided this time around. This thread will be merged with the previous one and remain locked. Please don't create a third one.

If you would like suggestions about anime that'll match your preferences, please consult the Suggestions Forum. Otherwise, I'm afraid we don't need any more "awkward breakup letters" ("It's not me, it's you"), as they've been called.
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