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Old 2013-01-04, 15:44   Link #1781
Flere821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Red Rider sounds like an awesome dude; that only reinforces the impression I got from Yellow Radio's video.

Sounds kind of like a regular shounen hero. A goofy, idealistic, positive guy, who got a clingy jealous girlfriend (Purple Thorn) and a super-serious fight-happy best friend/rival (Blue Knight). Everyone liked him, and he tried to create a world of peace and cooperation.

But it wasn't his story, so the bad guy's plot succeeds, and he becomes the Sacrificial Lion whose tragic "murder" that sets Kuroyukihime and Haruyuki's story.
Spoiler for additionally:
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Old 2013-01-04, 17:21   Link #1782
Sunder the Gold
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See, I didn't care to know that. It's interesting, but not actually relevant to the mysteries that grab me. Plus, I don't even know what the ISS is yet.


I have to say, while the description of White Cosmos thus far certainly doesn't tell us everything she can do, what little we know about her 'can's and 'cannot's doesn't fit my theory at all.

You don't get much farther away from "The Mario" of averaged, well-rounded abilities than totally lacking any form of offensive ability.

But not only does it contradict my theory, it doesn't make a lick of sense! How does a Duel Avatar win the pre-Level 4 duels without some method of attack? Presumably even Grandee could bludgeon opponents with his fists; he's a big dude, so his blows would have weight behind them.

Maybe it just means that she has nothing beyond the basic Punch and Kick?

But how can she win with just that? If she survived duels with toughness or agility and won with a revenge/counter trick, then she'd be Green like Grandee. If she wins through indirect trickery, she'd be Yellow like Radio. If she uses tricks and keeps at a distance to avoid counterattack, she'd be Orange.

There's also her "Blur of White Light" disguise power; how is disguise and concealment not a Yellow trick?
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Old 2013-01-05, 18:08   Link #1783
Belise
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Red's pretty cool, yeah. But I can't say or sure that I have any particular attachment to him or any of the kings really. Except for BL.

For lotus, I feel respect since she is the first one to openly reject the non-aggression pact between the kings and actually choose to fight them all instead. The point she brought up about how they are all basically forgetting all the burst linkers they trampled to get to lv.9 and all the enjoyment/experiences each one of them had personally taken away.

In that light, RR seems like the biggest jerk of them all even if he is a nice guy at heart. He's the one who was all "hey guys let's forget all the names and good times of ppl we eliminated and just play-fight with each other while we and members of out legions continue the process, k?". It's ridiculous. BB is a fighting game. They should fight to the end, whatever it is. Who wants to play a game you love and stop right before the ending(usually the best part anyway), then keep playing it for years and years? If they had that attitude none of them would be lv.9 to begin with. I think it's a maturity issue and refusing to accept BB/AW as a game. Sure its like crack to them, but its still just a game.
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Old 2013-01-05, 18:21   Link #1784
Belise
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^Oh, And WC could use any combination of those methods to win - if white really is an all rounded color. That may in fact be what makes her dangerous. No actual weakness while always having an upper-handed attribute is bad news. That and her mentality is nothing to scoff at. She climbed the research societies ladder didn't she? I'd hate to run into that avatar.. Especially if she's lv.9 now with IS abilities, underground connections, a full legion of support and a fighting style you will rarely -if ever- see beforehand. Scary, scary..
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Old 2013-01-05, 19:55   Link #1785
Sunder the Gold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belise View Post
^Oh, And WC could use any combination of those methods to win - if white really is an all rounded color. That may in fact be what makes her dangerous. No actual weakness while always having an upper-handed attribute is bad news.
But Kuroyukihime herself pointed out that all Duel Avatars start from the same potential. Because that potential is spent on various and wildly different kinds of abilities, each Avatar has situations and opponents which they can easily deal with, and those they will have great difficulty with.

If someone has no weaknesses, then they also have no strengths. If there are no strategies that work well against them, they also have no strategies which work well against others.

Burst Linkers can have varying talents as fighters, tacticians, strategists, leaders, schemers, and whatever else, but their avatars are all essentially equal.


It's also a fact that even the mightiest King started out as a Level 1 newbie, who needed to fight constant duels just to reach the point where they could enter the Unlimited Neutral Field.

True, there are more ways to fight than just duels. Free-for-alls and two-on-two team battles provide a way for "support" type Avatars to progress.

But this offers no protect against random challenges which target just one Avatar. Being on a team is no defense against personal challenges, and the protection of Legion Territories didn't EXIST until the future kings finally reached level 7 or 8.

As someone who became a King herself, White Cosmos would have needed to be able to defend herself from individual attackers and their challenges. What's more, she would need a way to defeat those opponents, or else she wouldn't have earned King status around the same time as the others.

What's more, are there really pure "support" types? I haven't seen or heard anything to suggest that Lime Bell can't use Citron Call on herself to recover her own HP, and she's built exceptionally strong and tough for her small size. She can get into a slugging contest, rack up Special Points from damage dealt and sustained, and then reverse time on herself to recover HP.

Green Grandee isn't just a support-type, since it looks like he could also punch you real good, and he's got a revenge trick of his own to win a fight after a slugging match charges up his Special Meter.

No Duel Avatar would be designed as a rare and precious flower which cannot defend itself. That goes against everything that a Duel Avatar is meant to be.


Yellow Radio, when he started out as a newbie, needed to reduce his opponent's HP to zero. If his "indirect combat" abilities could not do that, then he needed to find another way. Whether by punching them, jumping down on them from a roof, throwing a rock at them, he needed to damage them to win fights.

It doesn't make sense if Level 1 White Cosmos was somehow better able to avoid reliance on direct attacks than Yellow Radio. Compared to him, she would have needed to rely MORE on direct attacks against her opponent to win.


Quote:
That and her mentality is nothing to scoff at. She climbed the research societies ladder didn't she?
Maybe I'm missing something; I just assumed that she was the one who started the Society.
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Old 2013-01-05, 20:21   Link #1786
Sunder the Gold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belise View Post
The point she brought up about how they are all basically forgetting all the burst linkers they trampled to get to lv.9 and all the enjoyment/experiences each one of them had personally taken away.
"What do you mean, you want to stop murdering each other? You murdered hundreds before, why is it suddenly a bad thing now?"

For all her words, Kuroyukihime herself regrets killing Red Rider. It makes sense that Red Rider regretted all of the other players he might have deleted on his way to the top.


But you should also check out my "BB Rules and Speculation" thread, where I explain that the Accelerated World used to be a very different place.

What I might not have said is that in the early days, no one would have had any idea that people who lost Brain Burst also lost their memories of it. The first generation had no Parents, and it would have been a while before any Burst Linkers started to find and befriend each other in the physical world.

What's more, that wasn't originally a big deal. If a Burst Linker gets eliminated a few weeks after getting started, he loses maybe a week's worth of memories regarding a virtual world which will usually have zero impact on his life in the physical world.

Compare that to the death of Red Rider. This is a guy from the first generation, who has been playing the game for five years. Given the subjective amounts of time he would have spent in the Unlimited Neutral Field, he would have lived at least twice as much as his physical age. Losing Brain Burst cost him half of his life's experiences.

Further, Brain Burst was more than just a game to him, because he'd made a relationship with Purple Thorn. A relationship that might very well have entered the physical world and impacted Rider's normal life. But how much of that relationship survived the loss of his memories?


That's the thing that really makes Brain Burst more than a game, and which makes eliminating other players isn't heinous.

The superhuman powers aren't the really important thing gained or lost: It's the life experiences. Losing all of one's memories of Brain Burst cripples and mutilates the person a Linker had become.

Or maybe it doesn't. Maybe Noumi is just faking it because he doesn't remember any reason to prey upon Haru and Chiyu. Maybe character growth experienced because of Brain Burst sticks around, even if you don't remember.


Quote:
Who wants to play a game you love and stop right before the ending (usually the best part anyway), then keep playing it for years and years?
Red Rider: If I lose, I forget my girlfriend. If she loses, she forgets me. If the game ends, and the whole thing disappears, will we remember each other?

Besides which, personal victory isn't the only reason to play a game. For some people, the point of a game is playing with others.

People who want to play with others are not going to be keen on making everyone else lose the game just because they wanted to be the number one winner.

Further, not many games end permanently for all players when one person wins. World of Warcraft is still on-line even when people beat Arthas. A Pac-Man booth doesn't shut down and burn out if someone passes the final level. Candyland doesn't suddenly burst into flames after someone crosses the finish line.

Games are meant to be played, and if anyone really feared that the greatest game in the world would cease to exist if someone "won", most people would avoid "winning".


Besides that, all of the Kings knew each other. Even when individuals among them were not friends, most of them were spirited rivals with each other.

You know what the best part of a good rivalry is? The rematch!

Red Rider and Blue Knight had probably had great fun killing each other and swearing to kill each other again before they became Level 9. But now, suddenly, they might actually get rid of each other for good?

Why the heck would they want to do that? They loved to fight each other, they respected each other and the effort each had invested, the strength each other had gained. Why destroy that?
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Old 2013-01-05, 22:55   Link #1787
Belise
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ughhh too much text! a little less next time please? your responses are great and well thought out, but this is a bit much. i don't even know what im responding to anymore -_-
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Old 2013-01-06, 09:36   Link #1788
orpheus2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
"What do you mean, you want to stop murdering each other? You murdered hundreds before, why is it suddenly a bad thing now?"

For all her words, Kuroyukihime herself regrets killing Red Rider. It makes sense that Red Rider regretted all of the other players he might have deleted on his way to the top.


But you should also check out my "BB Rules and Speculation" thread, where I explain that the Accelerated World used to be a very different place.

What I might not have said is that in the early days, no one would have had any idea that people who lost Brain Burst also lost their memories of it. The first generation had no Parents, and it would have been a while before any Burst Linkers started to find and befriend each other in the physical world.

What's more, that wasn't originally a big deal. If a Burst Linker gets eliminated a few weeks after getting started, he loses maybe a week's worth of memories regarding a virtual world which will usually have zero impact on his life in the physical world.

Compare that to the death of Red Rider. This is a guy from the first generation, who has been playing the game for five years. Given the subjective amounts of time he would have spent in the Unlimited Neutral Field, he would have lived at least twice as much as his physical age. Losing Brain Burst cost him half of his life's experiences.

Further, Brain Burst was more than just a game to him, because he'd made a relationship with Purple Thorn. A relationship that might very well have entered the physical world and impacted Rider's normal life. But how much of that relationship survived the loss of his memories?


That's the thing that really makes Brain Burst more than a game, and which makes eliminating other players isn't heinous.

The superhuman powers aren't the really important thing gained or lost: It's the life experiences. Losing all of one's memories of Brain Burst cripples and mutilates the person a Linker had become.

Or maybe it doesn't. Maybe Noumi is just faking it because he doesn't remember any reason to prey upon Haru and Chiyu. Maybe character growth experienced because of Brain Burst sticks around, even if you don't remember.



Red Rider: If I lose, I forget my girlfriend. If she loses, she forgets me. If the game ends, and the whole thing disappears, will we remember each other?

Besides which, personal victory isn't the only reason to play a game. For some people, the point of a game is playing with others.

People who want to play with others are not going to be keen on making everyone else lose the game just because they wanted to be the number one winner.

Further, not many games end permanently for all players when one person wins. World of Warcraft is still on-line even when people beat Arthas. A Pac-Man booth doesn't shut down and burn out if someone passes the final level. Candyland doesn't suddenly burst into flames after someone crosses the finish line.

Games are meant to be played, and if anyone really feared that the greatest game in the world would cease to exist if someone "won", most people would avoid "winning".


Besides that, all of the Kings knew each other. Even when individuals among them were not friends, most of them were spirited rivals with each other.

You know what the best part of a good rivalry is? The rematch!

Red Rider and Blue Knight had probably had great fun killing each other and swearing to kill each other again before they became Level 9. But now, suddenly, they might actually get rid of each other for good?

Why the heck would they want to do that? They loved to fight each other, they respected each other and the effort each had invested, the strength each other had gained. Why destroy that?
But you have to take note, it won't stay that way for long. In a few years, the impact of this game will influence society negatively. The memory erasure will definitely be abused especially by those who commit crimes. Combined with the fact, the ARG is now perfecting the ISS kit which has the capability to bestow Knowledge of the IS but also to change the personality of the weilder. In essence, they are perfecting mind manipulation.

As for BL's motivation for completing the game, I would say it is a combination of her desire to see the creator as well as a the sunk cost fallacy.
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Old 2013-01-10, 17:35   Link #1789
Belise
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and once again the thread dies. who's going to revitalize it this time? -____-;;

^oh and orpheus2, maybe you should entertain sunder. as it seems you can stay afloat in that text ocean. good work lol
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Old 2013-01-11, 14:14   Link #1790
Miraluka
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I think its because the translations stopped just where the anime left. What a let down .









;_;
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Old 2013-01-11, 16:13   Link #1791
Belise
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I know they're doing it for free and everything but still. You can't help but feel annoyed that they've uploaded all the images until volume 12 and they're barely past dusk taker. It really is a let down.
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Old 2013-01-11, 19:33   Link #1792
Tusjecht
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Age: 19
Hi I read through this forum in the past and have few questions..

-Azure Air/Heir: said to be stuck inside the palace with The Infinity and monsters on the outside. Is he actually trapped there ala SAO style, unable to log out? That would suck big time if it is.

-Green Grande/Iron Pound: IP is supposedly his 3rd lieutenant. No mention of 1, 2, and others?

-Disaster Armour with 100% transfer rate: does it pass on to a random avatar who fought the thing, or the person who killed it? Mainly cos I'm writing a fanfic and need some canon material.

Thanks!
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Old 2013-01-11, 20:46   Link #1793
Orange Duke
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Quote:
-Azure Air/Heir: said to be stuck inside the palace with The Infinity and monsters on the outside. Is he actually trapped there ala SAO style, unable to log out? That would suck big time if it is.
Yes. No leave point = you no leave.

Quote:
Green Grande/Iron Pound: IP is supposedly his 3rd lieutenant. No mention of 1, 2, and others?
Not too sure but I think one of his other lieutenants was mentioned in Accel World: Dural Magisa Garden. All in all he has a total of 6 lieutenants, collectively know as the 'Six Layers of Armor' of Great Wall.

Quote:
Disaster Armour with 100% transfer rate: does it pass on to a random avatar who fought the thing, or the person who killed it? Mainly cos I'm writing a fanfic and need some canon material.
Random person, or it might be whoever first comes into contact with its blood. Lotus didn't get infected even though she dealt the death blow. The 4th Disaster's fluids did spill onto Radio, so it might be an accompanying visual effect when you receive the armor. Strangely enough Radio didn't get infect even though he held the item for 2 years, whereas Haru lost control barely six months in.

Though it seems like Haru's case was special in that the armor didn't appear in his inventory.
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Old 2013-01-11, 20:56   Link #1794
Tusjecht
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Well wow. I'd ask for source, but I know you enough on FFnet.

Lotus didn't deal the death blow: she said later after the video that 4th CD continued to fight for 2 mins after that.

I don't think the armour even appears in inventories. A machine-translated chapter 1 of V5 has a line saying "YOU HAVE EQUIPPED AN ENHANCED ARMAMENT - THE DISASTER."

Edit: V5 and the anime also suggests you equip Disaster Armour by starting up IS. What kind, I can't say for sure though.

That might explain why Radio can :"have" the armour but not get infected, he just doesn't start his IS.

Last edited by Tusjecht; 2013-01-11 at 21:01. Reason: Additional info
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Old 2013-01-11, 21:28   Link #1795
Orange Duke
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Quote:
Lotus didn't deal the death blow: she said later after the video that 4th CD continued to fight for 2 mins after that.
Though she didn't mention whether anybody else joined in. Radio was hiding behind a rock in the flashback where he recieved the armour, so it's safe to say that he didn't participate in the fight.

Quote:
I don't think the armour even appears in inventories.
It does, or else Lotus wouldn't have asked everyone to check theirs after the raid on the 6th Disaster.

Quote:
V5 and the anime also suggests you equip Disaster Armour by starting up IS. What kind, I can't say for sure though.
IS isn't known to a majority of the Accel World populace though, so it's also safe to say that the Disasters put on the armour willingly. But if that's the case, and assuming that the Disaster equips against your will, then every time Haru started up IS he would be taken over, but that's not the case. It didn't happen when Haru was learning IS from Raker, demonstrating it along with Rain or dealing the death blow to Taker. Not to mention the whispers already started before Crow knew about IS.
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Old 2013-01-11, 23:10   Link #1796
judasmartel
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Maybe the armor was already trying to entice Haru into equipping it.
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Old 2013-01-12, 02:25   Link #1797
Tusjecht
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange Duke View Post
It does, or else Lotus wouldn't have asked everyone to check theirs after the raid on the 6th Disaster.
And yet it didn't show up in Haru's inventory, and he wouldn't lie.

apart from BT, any translations of the last two chapters of V7?

Also, do we have official word on what happened to the second and third CDs? All I have so far are the chinese translators.

Last edited by Tusjecht; 2013-01-12 at 02:31. Reason: afterthoughts
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Old 2013-01-12, 02:44   Link #1798
Orange Duke
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That's why I said Haru's infection might be a special case.

I'm fairly confident that there's nothing heard about the 3rd CD. All we know is that his sword skills rival that of Blue Knight, but Blue Knight won out when he slew him in single sword combat.

And I think the 3rd Disaster was also a dual wielder? Read it somewhere but I can no longer find the source, so don't cite me on that. I'm probably wrong though. It's likely the 3rd Disaster wielded Star Caster and that was why he lost even though they were evenly matched in sword skills: The Impulse was simply a better weapon.

Last edited by Orange Duke; 2013-01-12 at 03:19.
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Old 2013-01-12, 05:50   Link #1799
Tusjecht
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That's all? That's both a relief and a bad thing, because
Spoiler for Fanfic of CDs:
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Old 2013-01-12, 06:00   Link #1800
Orange Duke
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Ah well. Though from what you've posted in the fanfic thread your OC seems to be more centered on defense. If that's the case then he wouldn't be able to have sword skills rivaling that of Blue Knight himself.
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