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ChainLegacy · 2012-12-15, 07:50

I think in a China/Japan conflict of the modern era, there'd be no winner. Whoever won the military conflict would subsequently lose due to the economic repercussions. One good aspect of globalization is it should serve as a deterrent from these types of engagement by large industrial nations.

Athena · 2012-12-16, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

I think in a China/Japan conflict of the modern era, there'd be no winner. Whoever won the military conflict would subsequently lose due to the economic repercussions. One good aspect of globalization is it should serve as a deterrent from these types of engagement by large industrial nations.

I don't even think there would be one because both have heavy influence around the world. If there's a major conflict, countries would probably have to pick sides.

Anyway, if China really wants to beat Japan out of there, it'd maintain the statu quo. While it has not yet reached its entire military potential, Japan is going down right now. A fight picked a decade after for those islands would obviously be advantageous for China.

At the same time, this conflict was for the sake of creating "patriotism" in both countries' cases. So it holds much more value for the politicians than for the people in general.

PzIVf3 · 2012-12-17, 02:48

Abe pledges no compromise over disputed islands

TOKYO —

Incoming Prime Minister Shinzo Abe came out fighting Monday after his sweeping election victory, saying there can be no compromise on the sovereignty of islands at the center of a dispute with China.

“The Senkaku islands are Japan’s inherent territory,” he told a press conference, referring to an archipelago Beijing calls the Diaoyus. “Japan owns and controls the islands… under international law. There is no room for negotiation on this point”.

Full Article
http://www.japantoday.com/category/p...nds-are-japans

Terrestrial Dream · 2012-12-17, 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by PzIVf3

Abe pledges no compromise over disputed islands

TOKYO —

Incoming Prime Minister Shinzo Abe came out fighting Monday after his sweeping election victory, saying there can be no compromise on the sovereignty of islands at the center of a dispute with China.

“The Senkaku islands are Japan’s inherent territory,” he told a press conference, referring to an archipelago Beijing calls the Diaoyus. “Japan owns and controls the islands… under international law. There is no room for negotiation on this point”.

Full Article
http://www.japantoday.com/category/p...nds-are-japans

I just find that line funny considering Japan's dispute with its other neighbor.

Ithekro · 2012-12-17, 03:09

We'll see if those other disputes come up at all.

KiraYamatoFan · 2013-01-12, 06:42

As if we were expecting not much of an escalation, we are witnessing a lot in the past few days:

China still sends some military planes to the region, but without actually entering Japanese airspace:
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...247161/1/.html

China Warns Citizens To 'Prepare For The Worst' As It Sends Fighters To East China Sea:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-...134904740.html

Japan PM fires fresh broadside at China in row:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...7588fddff3.1b1

With now both aerial forces in the area, this could get ugly. Still, the PRC keep on asking for trouble wherever they are knocking (be it Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Philippines, India or even Hong Kong). Do the guys from the CCP ever look at themselves at what mess they could bring upon themselves? It's almost they took too much of a lead intake into their brains.

GenjiChan · 2013-01-12, 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

With now both aerial forces in the area, this could get ugly. Still, the PRC keep on asking for trouble wherever they are knocking (be it Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Philippines, India or even Hong Kong). Do the guys from the CCP ever look at themselves at what mess they could bring upon themselves? It's almost they took too much of a lead intake into their brains.

China wants to provoke a war but not start a war. China don't want to play as the aggressive team but as a defensive team... similar to Duranda's ideals.... come to think of it they might be framing it after GSD's?

KiraYamatoFan · 2013-01-12, 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

China wants to provoke a war but not start a war. China don't want to play as the aggressive team but as a defensive team... similar to Duranda's ideals.... come to think of it they might be framing it after GSD's?

No disrespect, GenjiChan, but I don't see anything funny in all of this, especially not after the Chinese had military ships port in Saigon the other day in the midst of the Vietnam/China territorial dispute.

GenjiChan · 2013-01-12, 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

No disrespect, GenjiChan, but I don't see anything funny in all of this, especially not after the Chinese had military ships port in Saigon the other day in the midst of the Vietnam/China territorial dispute.

Sorry, if you thought it that way.... But again... Do you think China would like to be the one to start a war? Or just trying to provoke a war to justify a "just war"?

Funny, I never heard that on TV but it would be a big deal if they did that on the Philippines, I mean port in our ports. I don't know if Vietnam has alliances to the US like the Philippine has.

KiraYamatoFan · 2013-01-12, 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Sorry, if you thought it that way.... But again... Do you think China would like to be the one to start a war? Or just trying to provoke a war to justify a "just war"?

To me, China are acting exactly like Germany between 1890 and 1914 by the way they show the finger to all their neighboring countries while preparing themselves for a massive war. So far, Japanese authorities have been kind enough not to order the sinking nor the destruction of a single subborn Chinese ship or airplane while the South Korean and Russian coast guards sank Chinese ships at least once each in the last 12 months. However, China should not expect for mercy if one of their MiGs ever crosses the forbidden line and screws around in the Japanese airspace.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Funny, I never heard that on TV but it would be a big deal if they did that on the Philippines, I mean port in our ports. I don't know if Vietnam has alliances to the US like the Philippine has.

The Vietnamese state media are keeping it silent because the local government is too chickenshit to make a stand, but the news is well spread elsewhere on forums and many Vietnamese people are extremely unhappy at how the sissies in Hanoi reacted. About military alliances, I really don't know.

GenjiChan · 2013-01-12, 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

To me, China are acting exactly like Germany between 1890 and 1914 by the way they show the finger to all their neighboring countries while preparing themselves for a massive war. So far, Japanese authorities have been kind enough not to order the sinking nor the destruction of a single subborn Chinese ship or airplane while the South Korean and Russian coast guards sank Chinese ships at least once each in the last 12 months. However, China should not expect for mercy if one of their MiGs ever crosses the forbidden line and screws around in the Japanese airspace.

Agree. So again, China is provoking the other countries to make the first lethal move... She knows she's endanger when the UN declares her as an aggressor.

Tom Bombadil · 2013-01-12, 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

No disrespect, GenjiChan, but I don't see anything funny in all of this, especially not after the Chinese had military ships port in Saigon the other day in the midst of the Vietnam/China territorial dispute.

Somehow you seems to fantasize that the Chinese military ships can go to Saigon without Vietnam consent. 　Oh, well...

Sumeragi · 2013-01-12, 13:55

More importantly..... what kind of warships? Trainers?

LeoXiao · 2013-01-12, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random32

The KMT also were much worse than Imperial Japan. The Taiwanese are relatively pro-Japan for a reason.

I was comparing the rule of the CCP in mainland China to how the Japanese wanted to rule it, not Japanese rule in Taiwan to KMT rule. This was meant by me to also illustrate that the KMT was much more humane than the Communists. I saw a Taiwanese documentary where they were talking about the "White Terror". People, mostly intellectuals, who spoke out against the gov. or made mistakes were arrested and sometimes killed, in order to keep the KMT dictatorship going. A few tens of thousands arrested and maybe killed from 1947 to 1989? That's nothing compared to a single "revolutionary" political campaign carried out on the mainland, yet the documentary still acted as if Chiang Kai-shek was a Nazi or something.

tl;dr: Saying the KMT was as bad as the CCP is nonsensical.

KiraYamatoFan · 2013-01-12, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

Somehow you seems to fantasize that the Chinese military ships can go to Saigon without Vietnam consent. 　Oh, well...

Even if that wasn't the case, someone from the Vietnamese government decided to play chickenshit while all other countries involved in disputes already told the PRC to feck off. That's where I'm pissed off. The PRC may say it's about fighting piracy in the Gulf of Aden, but that's not a valid excuse for those ships not to make efforts to port somewhere else if they don't want to add oil on the fire.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

More importantly..... what kind of warships? Trainers?

From the looks of it: 2 Type 054A Jiangkai II stealth multi-role frigates (Yiyang and Changzhou) and a tanker.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/vietnamese/viet...s_saigon.shtml

https://danluan.org/lien-ket/2013010...-ngay-07012013

Sumeragi · 2013-01-12, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Even if that wasn't the case, someone from the Vietnamese government decided to play chickenshit while all other countries involved in disputes already told the PRC to feck off. That's where I'm pissed off. The PRC may say it's about fighting piracy in the Gulf of Aden, but that's not a valid excuse for those ships not to make efforts to port somewhere else if they don't want to add oil on the fire.

Well..... given that everyone in the region has one thing or another against PRC, you really think they had that many alternate choices?

Ithekro · 2013-01-12, 19:03

Could the Vietnamese be trying to play both sides (or just figuring out who is better for them)? It wasn't all that long ago that US Naval vessels were welcomed back to Vietnam.

Though that does bring up an interesting question. What is the state of that country now? Who holds more effective control? Hanoi or Saigon (I don't know anyone outside of Political Correctness or Hanoi calls in Ho Chi Minh City anymore.?

KiraYamatoFan · 2013-01-12, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Though that does bring up an interesting question. What is the state of that country now? Who holds more effective control? Hanoi or Saigon (I don't know anyone outside of Political Correctness or Hanoi calls in Ho Chi Minh City anymore.?

This article sums it up if any: http://www.eu-asiacentre.eu/pub_details.php?pub_id=57

Tom Bombadil · 2013-01-13, 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Even if that wasn't the case, someone from the Vietnamese government decided to play chickenshit while all other countries involved in disputes already told the PRC to feck off. That's where I'm pissed off. The PRC may say it's about fighting piracy in the Gulf of Aden, but that's not a valid excuse for those ships not to make efforts to port somewhere else if they don't want to add oil on the fire.

The China-Vietnam relationship is more than confrontation, but apparently that is beyond your understanding. By the way, we are not at war, if that's what you are thinking.

GenjiChan · 2013-03-19, 01:40

China military officials admit ship radar lock: report

2012-12-17, 03:09	Link #785
Ithekro Space Battleship Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 35	We'll see if those other disputes come up at all. __________________

2013-01-12, 06:42	Link #786
KiraYamatoFan Allez Montréal! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada... We'll be back! Go Habs Go! Age: 29	As if we were expecting not much of an escalation, we are witnessing a lot in the past few days: China still sends some military planes to the region, but without actually entering Japanese airspace: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...247161/1/.html China Warns Citizens To 'Prepare For The Worst' As It Sends Fighters To East China Sea: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-...134904740.html Japan PM fires fresh broadside at China in row: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...7588fddff3.1b1 With now both aerial forces in the area, this could get ugly. Still, the PRC keep on asking for trouble wherever they are knocking (be it Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Philippines, India or even Hong Kong). Do the guys from the CCP ever look at themselves at what mess they could bring upon themselves? It's almost they took too much of a lead intake into their brains. __________________ Kakeru Aizawa and Nana Mishima enter the Theater of Dreams: Area no Kishi: Dream or Premonition Alternate link on the Area no Kishi Fanon Wikia

2013-01-12, 19:03	Link #797
Ithekro Space Battleship Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 35	Could the Vietnamese be trying to play both sides (or just figuring out who is better for them)? It wasn't all that long ago that US Naval vessels were welcomed back to Vietnam. Though that does bring up an interesting question. What is the state of that country now? Who holds more effective control? Hanoi or Saigon (I don't know anyone outside of Political Correctness or Hanoi calls in Ho Chi Minh City anymore.? __________________

2013-03-19, 01:40	Link #800
GenjiChan Deity of the Fabled Wind Graphic Designer Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: War Torn Mindanao Age: 25	China military officials admit ship radar lock: report __________________ If your waifu is here then you two are already divorced. They're mine now. Get it?! Genji's Random Collections The Socialist Group Animesuki Philippine FactionMyAnimeList

2012-12-15, 07:50	Link #781
ChainLegacy Pret-ty pret-ty good. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Massachusetts, US Age: 23	I think in a China/Japan conflict of the modern era, there'd be no winner. Whoever won the military conflict would subsequently lose due to the economic repercussions. One good aspect of globalization is it should serve as a deterrent from these types of engagement by large industrial nations.

2012-12-17, 02:48	Link #783
PzIVf3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Somewhere at Earth	Abe pledges no compromise over disputed islands TOKYO — Incoming Prime Minister Shinzo Abe came out fighting Monday after his sweeping election victory, saying there can be no compromise on the sovereignty of islands at the center of a dispute with China. “The Senkaku islands are Japan’s inherent territory,” he told a press conference, referring to an archipelago Beijing calls the Diaoyus. “Japan owns and controls the islands… under international law. There is no room for negotiation on this point”. Full Article http://www.japantoday.com/category/p...nds-are-japans

2013-01-12, 13:55	Link #793
Sumeragi Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Burning Heart!	More importantly..... what kind of warships? Trainers?