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Old 2013-01-13, 13:08   Link #7061
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Well, he seems capable enough to take them down so why bother to hand the job to some guys who are not going to kill the Hucks, may listen to what they have to say and then go to stop his evil plan?
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Old 2013-01-13, 14:14   Link #7062
Justin_Brett
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Because he'd probably be tired after beating all three of them, even if that is possible (Curren seemed like she was fooling around), and then they'd know what he could do.
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Old 2013-01-13, 19:06   Link #7063
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Well, if this was a trap by the TSAB they might aready know that
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Old 2013-01-20, 01:56   Link #7064
00-Raiser
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Chapter 21 is out in english.

Well, I'm sure some people are going to like Isis even more now, since she actually calls Thoma out on his attitude towards the Huckebein.
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Old 2013-01-20, 02:16   Link #7065
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Well, not love her but she is the only character around him that shows some common sense for a change. I mean Thoma is... well odd at times and Lily really lacks so much to be a proper character at times that really the stage is open for anyone to jump in and just tell Thoma to go away and join the large list of shonen protagonist that people doesn't like. At least for me.
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Old 2013-01-20, 02:40   Link #7066
Koveras Alvane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Chapter 21 is out in english.

Well, I'm sure some people are going to like Isis even more now, since she actually calls Thoma out on his attitude towards the Huckebein.
Liking the main character of this manga even more? I thought that was par of the course.
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Old 2013-01-20, 02:45   Link #7067
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It's kind of an odd situation because the manga mroe or less treats Tohma's viewpoint as good and noble yet we also have the other side of the coin where characters (Mainly Isis, Vita and Hayate) call on Tohma's overforgiving attitude with more than justifable reasons xDU

At least i'm glad the plot takes it's time to show characters actually concerned about this and not showing off Tohma as a divine messiah whose decisions are always right.
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Old 2013-01-20, 03:29   Link #7068
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Considering 90% of the cast used to be antagonists at some point, they're really in no position to complain about Thoma's views
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Old 2013-01-20, 03:59   Link #7069
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Considering 90% of the cast used to be antagonists at some point, they're really in no position to complain about Thoma's views
They're not against reforming the Huckebein (Signum's counter-productive insistence on "arresting Cypha" is clear evidence) but they're obviously worried about Tohma being a wee bit too open to a grooup of cold-blooded mercenaries which is totally justified. Sure, 90% of the cast are former antagonists but most of them went trough a process of "befriending" before being welcomed and trusted as good guys (Fate was blasted, the Wolkenritter killed and resurrected and the Numbers underwent a period of isolated reformation ...and not all of them got such a chance) ...Tohma is skipping that key process xDU
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Old 2013-01-20, 04:11   Link #7070
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Well it's not like he's giving the Huckebein access to top secret information in exchange for medicine he know doesn't work for a sick girl he only met a few days prior.
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Old 2013-01-20, 04:27   Link #7071
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Well it's not like he's giving the Huckebein access to top secret information in exchange for medicine he know doesn't work for a sick girl he only met a few days prior.
Don't forget Tohma is the living MacGuffin of the season, the more he gets influenced by Curren's manipulations the higher the chances for him to join their side ...or to access his terminator pwoers for tha matter, both alternatives being VERY bad news for the heroes.

Also, Curren is no fool and is playing every trick on the book to cash on Tohma's innocent trust in them ...a fact Hayate is VERY aware of. Hence the importance to be sure to keep Tohma's morals in check.

Changing topics a bit, i'm reading FORCE 21 in English and already found something pretty shocking...

Spoiler for True Lies:
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Old 2013-01-20, 10:20   Link #7072
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Every tick on the book? Like just asking nicely over and over? I’m sorry but I just don’t see anyone with even a little amount of intelligence falling for a trick set by the Hückebein. Is like those guys who fall for Jail’s lies, none of them can hide the fact they are evil. Then again Thoma is not the most brightest of guys, is he?

In any case I don’t see a point of asking Thoma. Why they never just grab the guy by force and brainwash him? Because at this point they are going nowhere with this. Besides Thoma’s reason for liking them is just so out of place. They take him away, murder innocent people, almost murder SD6 agents and he is all like “I owe them so much”.

That being say a least we have plot… kind of. What I like of this chapter is how they compare Thoma to Nanoha. Our hero ladies and gentleman: he is weaker, less competent and overall inferior to the previous one but we are going to remain with him in any case.

Spoiler for True Lies:
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Old 2013-01-20, 12:49   Link #7073
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It's fairly clear that the Hucks are playing upon Thoma's sympathies, and that Cypha intended Thoma to tell SS6, so that they would help her against the Grendels. Thoma isn't completely stupid, as he intends to tell SS6, and he'll probably abide by whatever SS6 tells him. Signum, Erio, and Caro are the only ones available at the moment, however.

But we get some motive to Hardis now... he's a typical corporate, who sees money in a new clean form of energy, and that's why he's developing this. At least, that is the reason we have so far. It feels like it is not just money, but his desire to make a better world with his clean energy idea. Although, I'm not quite sure how he plans to apply the Eclipse to produce said clean energy. Unless he's trying to fine-tune the eclipse to infect everyone, since not everyone is a mage, but anyone can be an eclipse-infectee.

Which still leaves why Curren is opposing him... does she know something? Or suspect something? Given that Cypha wants to question the Grendels, possibly about their recent infection, it sounds like the Hucks are trying to get to the bottom of the recent infections themselves. As I said before, I would think they would like more people like them, Eclipse infectees, but they don't seem to. It feels like they are trying to prevent more people from becoming infected. Almost dark heroes in a way. They'll kill like the Punisher, but in the service of the greater good. They developed a way to control their murderous impulses, so they don't kill as much as they need to.

I could see Curren breaking into anger at Hardis, with SS6 watching, saying something like, "It was you who made us like this! Do you know the hell we've been through? I won't let you infect anyone else... even if it costs me my life!" *both die in mutual explosion or something*

Hardis having a daughter, isn't really anything new. Jail had his daughters that he cared about, too. It's just a twisted form of giving the antagonist some semblance of humanity. Perhaps it might play a role in the future when his daughter gets infected, or is about to.

I think what I was must intrigued by, were the mentions of Alto. She's not going to be a helicopter pilot (even though they are still looking for one; where is Vice?), but something else. Something to do with the raptors, it feels like.
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Old 2013-01-20, 13:09   Link #7074
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About Alto, no, she is just there to pilot the helicopter I can just tell you.

Point taken, there is no other reason why Cypha tell Thoma but just to try to make him like them. I just find odd how easy he moves to like them. To the point I am sure they don’t need to bother with all this stuff, just lie to him and tell guy they have information on his past and he will go and join without a second thought on the matter, and when he is there just lie again and tell him they lost the information. Thoma wouldn’t even think on checking if they are lying, he will just take their word for it. So when I can see that as a possible scenario all the rest seems pointless to me.

About the points you bring that sounds actually good, I just don’t think that is the direction the manga is going or that will make much sense when the plot is done. Hardis seems just a copy of Jail on that “this new technology will chance the world but I have to kill a lot of people to do so”. Well on both cases is old technology they found so no really “new” on that sense. But what I found odd is Hardis lack of motivation so far. He doesn’t really have any reason to do what he does because we are not explain what is he doing with this things other than he is doing it. He is already in business and as far as we know he is doing just fine. He doesn’t try to do something with energy and even in that case we still don’t know what type of energy moves the Nanoha world, if is magic, how they use it? Like their normal electricity supply? They just have “magic plugs” on their houses where they put their devices to recharge? That needs to be address as well before we can go for the: use the tech to change the world and make a lot of money out of it.

I will never compare the Hückebein to Punisher. No just because the last one is actually more consequent with his action but he doesn’t kill innocents, not even for the greater good. They might kill but the Hückebein are clear criminals that just want to do their way and not care about consequences. The way we don’t even know why they fight Hardis is another reason to wonder about. They like being Eclipse Drivers? They want more like them? I have no idea what they are doing anything and they aren’t even moving to a clear goal. I think we need to know what their objectives are now. Again, same problem, lack of motives.
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Old 2013-01-20, 13:33   Link #7075
Justin_Brett
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Well it's not like he's giving the Huckebein access to top secret information in exchange for medicine he know doesn't work for a sick girl he only met a few days prior.
Sure, but if you compare it to that, almost everything looks better.

Spoiler:

Last edited by Justin_Brett; 2013-01-20 at 13:44.
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Old 2013-01-20, 13:46   Link #7076
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Sansker, you really don't like mystery novels, do you? Because, in a mystery novel, much is kept unknown for quite awhile, and according to you, anything we don't know means the story has a problem.
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Old 2013-01-20, 14:22   Link #7077
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I like how they're making such a big deal about the Raptors when they're basically useless in the next chapter, and disappear for about five afterward.

And why does Touma care about making the weapon that almost made him kill people look bad? Was that a joke or something?

Last edited by Justin_Brett; 2013-01-20 at 14:34.
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Old 2013-01-20, 15:34   Link #7078
Akiyoshi
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I can agree on Vandin's lack of a true motivation but in the Hucks case is more a lack of exposition on their motives than a proper lack of motivation, the beef they have with Vandin is pretty clear and in apst Chpters Curren has stated something among the lines of "he betrayed us" ...strongly implying a past co-working relationship between the Hucks and Hardis Vandin (for some reason i like to think Hardis was the one who raised Curren into the Ultimate Badass she is now and she escaped from him some years ago with her heart broken after discovering she was only another tool for him to achieve his goals ...and now she seeks revenge xD).

About Curren's strategies to get Tohma and the later's guillibleness towards the Hucks ...i said she's "trying" every trick in the book, not "tried" xD We have to wait and see how things turn out on that famously belated family reunion xDU The plot is trying to post Curren as a magnificent manipulator so Hayate and others react to her schemes with amazement and surprise ...so i guess it's better for our mental health to just go with it for now xDU
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Old 2013-01-20, 16:38   Link #7079
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Yes, but to be fair manipulate any character in Nanoha should not be that hard. Just saying. Currenn to me is like not a big deal, she tries to be but when it comes down to her actions I just can’t pass her goofy behavior near Stella. If you want to made a badass then made one, not keep her being the funny old sister, the mysterious killer, the manipulative evil leader and the ultimate warrior all in once, or at least balance such aspects of her a little better.

Kaijo is not I don’t like mystery. I love it. When we are learning about things with the characters and making sense out of something that doesn’t seem like adding on but that in the end all make sense or at least reveals the great mystery… I am all on such stories. However that doesn’t mean all “mysteries” are good or that we should have mysteries all over the place. Like I say, Nanoha is not to be something with intrigue beyond some minor cases, a simplest story with a clear goal always works better for this setting. What I don’t like is that we have no idea where the characters are going, no long term goal for the bad guys, the good guys are just going around the plot of the two bad organizations and in then end nobody is king enough to tell me why I should care. I mean, yes mystery but if you don’t give any reason to worry about it I will find it more like a bother than an actual plot element.

If the bad guys think the good guys can’t understand their motives or that they should know them is ok with me, but here the Hückebein don’t say what they want just because creates mystery. Or is how I feel the series, playing with our expectations in a rather odd manner and not going to the point just to show more scenes that goes nowhere. I feel more annoyed than thrill to find what is going on.
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Old 2013-01-21, 21:04   Link #7080
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So, in order to pre-empt any further confusion, let's see if I'm reading you right:

You normally like mystery stories, but Nanoha is not the right series for it?
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