AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Fairy Tail

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-01-13, 20:56   Link #10381
kitten320
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 24
^Doesn't matter if he is MC or not. Fact remains the fact that he was weaker but gradually became/becomes stronger than Erza.

Erza is also a main heroine who gets a lot of pluses that other charas don't.

Besides its a real life factor.

There are those who develop much faster and stronger than others. In my judo group there are two guys who are like killing machine. I barely ever see anyone give them lots of trouble yet they don't always have first places.

Great sport stars like Tyson. He is one of the greatest boxers yet he still lost several times.
There is no such thing as being invincible, Erza was meant to lose at some point.

Going by my own experience, when I was 13-14 I had to have a match against a student who was around 21. She won the match but I gave her very tough time and she was totally amazed and praised me. However, before match started she snickered at me for obvious reasons. What could a child possibly do to her?
In a year time I managed to get on equal ground with her.

Later I had massive injury and was out of proper training for around 3-4 years. When I began training properly again, I was over powered. My opponents/team mates were/are part of national team who train almost every day while I only trained about twice a week. However less than in a year I managed to catch up to some of them and even win and I'm not even a prodigy! And those people are strong who had won huge amount of medals.

If I could catch up in less than a year with small amount of training, imagine what a prodigy could achieve with proper training in that time?!

Saying that Kagura can't be stronger than Erza is a simple denial that you Erza fans can't seem to accept.
Just face it, Erza is not invincible, she is not a god!
__________________
kitten320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-13, 23:57   Link #10382
Ryus
The One Eyed King
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lurking Up Ahead
I'm not an Erza fan.

I'm not denying Kagura can't be strong.

I'm denying that its likely based on all the previous statements and Hiro repeatedly giving Erza endless plot armor. He's always willing to beat her up for a chapter or two but never does he let her lose. In short we've seen this all before, so its a case of fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

IMHO it's you denying hiro hyping antagonists way too much then pulling the rug out from under them to make them shrubs all for the sake of Erza (hence why I'm not a fan of hers)

Let me repeat though, I'm only saying Kagura's back story is weak and kinda forced. As a result it seemingly flies in the face of logic of Kagura being from a weakly powered magic family, yet now beyond Erza level... also she traveled everywhere searching for her brother in her poor girl outfit and finds Millianna, yet somehow 6 and change years later they're in an all girl guild with Millianna being still kinda weak but Kagura being a beast yet both seemingly joining that guild for the sake of revenge against Jellal... yeah great writing Hiro... like most of us don't now suspect the sword being the reason for her power being as strong as it is as a possible explanation (not saying it is... could just be bad writing or something else)

And on another note... denying main Characters don't follow a different logic in a shojen oh and the sports 'analogies' are really strawman arguments
__________________

Last edited by Ryus; 2013-01-14 at 00:39.
Ryus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-14, 09:13   Link #10383
Kaijo
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.
Send a message via AIM to Kaijo Send a message via MSN to Kaijo
I'll repeat again, that I have a feeling Kagura's sword is a magic item that is enhancing her power. Given a world of magic, it is not unlikely to find a magic item that gives one a lot of strength.

I'll also warn against thinking there are hard and fast power levels in this series. If you want that sort of thing, check out Dragonball Z. While power does play a role here, so does circumstance, tactics, and plain ole luck. Whether Natsu, or Erza, or Kagura wins, depends on multiple factors; not just strength.
Kaijo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-14, 10:33   Link #10384
Ryus
The One Eyed King
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lurking Up Ahead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
I'll repeat again, that I have a feeling Kagura's sword is a magic item that is enhancing her power. Given a world of magic, it is not unlikely to find a magic item that gives one a lot of strength.

I'll also warn against thinking there are hard and fast power levels in this series. If you want that sort of thing, check out Dragonball Z. While power does play a role here, so does circumstance, tactics, and plain ole luck. Whether Minerva, or Erza, or Kagura wins, depends on multiple factors; not just strength.
Fixed the mistake in your post... Natsu's not participating in their fight

Other than that I agree, mostly, but nakama and feelings need to be mentioned to in this series too, since in this series they can raise or drop a character a tier in a moment. In the case of Erza vs Kagura, Erza seems to have dropped due to thinking of her past while Kagura's power rose due to Millianna's situation and seems to be rising again due to Erza's confession... so I'm suspicious of what base Erza really is vs base Kagura. Plus based on Hiro's track record of hyping things to an extreme, Erza could power up any moment now.
__________________
Ryus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-14, 10:55   Link #10385
Kaijo
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.
Send a message via AIM to Kaijo Send a message via MSN to Kaijo
I was more referring to the general idea of "If Natsu and Erza fought, who would win?" Not that Natsu will get in on this current fight.
Kaijo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-14, 15:55   Link #10386
Ryus
The One Eyed King
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lurking Up Ahead
Lolz at the misunderstanding

Right now, I'd say 50/50 circumstance would determin the winner. Neither right now is clearly stronger or weaker, even with LFD and Flame/Lightning Empress Armor thrown into the mixture
__________________
Ryus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-14, 18:09   Link #10387
kitten320
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
Let me repeat though, I'm only saying Kagura's back story is weak and kinda forced. As a result it seemingly flies in the face of logic of Kagura being from a weakly powered magic family, yet now beyond Erza level... also she traveled everywhere searching for her brother in her poor girl outfit and finds Millianna, yet somehow 6 and change years later they're in an all girl guild with Millianna being still kinda weak but Kagura being a beast yet both seemingly joining that guild for the sake of revenge against Jellal... yeah great writing Hiro... like most of us don't now suspect the sword being the reason for her power being as strong as it is as a possible explanation (not saying it is... could just be bad writing or something else)
You are clearly not listening... just because their family didn't have strong mages it doesn't mean that she has to be weak too...

There are lots of famous people who come from normal families with no real skills yet chidren happen to be talented and become stars.

That especially is very common among musicians/artists.
Though same in sports, the family is normal but their kid is a karate champion or box champion or whatever!

Kids geniuses don't born in smart families, most of them are born in normal family like yours, mine and many others.

And there are cases when family is very talented but their child is hopeless.

Putting a mark on Kagura just because she came from weak family is totally ridiculous!

Whole Erza's gang is of approximately same age yet look how different their power levels are!

Seriously, people don't develop the same. Milliana is clearly a normal mage while Kagura has potential. Be it a sword or not, potential is still there.

And so what that we didn't hear about Mermaid Heel before? Sabartooth also did not exist 7 years ago and now it is the strongest guild in Fiore!
__________________
kitten320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-14, 19:24   Link #10388
Ryus
The One Eyed King
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lurking Up Ahead
Wow... I'm not listening? Yet you pick only a single point in a long list of problems I saw in her back story to disprove all my points. Then bring up irrelevant points to support your hammering of a single point I made. I'm sorry but that is a strawman argument.

To be clear it was the accumulation of problems and weak back story that gave me pause, plus Hiro's history with Fairy Tail of doing exactly what happened with Kagura with other antagonists, only to 5 seconds later have Erza beat up said antagonist right after hyping them up to the heavens themselves.

If it makes you feel better, sure any joe could be strong if their parents where weak... but that doesn't prove it so either. I'm just looking at the accumulation of facts about her history and saying it still a bit pushing it since too many unlikely events need to be thrown in unles either Erza is holding back, or Kagura is getting a power up. Occum's razor is what my argument is going by, so I fully admit its not proof but imho just more likely. Take that as you will but I'm willing to bet you'll just read what I posted, still disagree, then rage if Kagura loses to Erza in the near future.

And Sabertooth isn't the stongest guild in Fiore, they're losing by a single point atm
__________________
Ryus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-14, 23:54   Link #10389
Vmem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Um, not to butt in on a perfectly logical argument guys, but @kitten, you realize that this is a shonen and there is such thing as "shonen logic" right? meaning:

1. almost no character, aside from MCs, are allowed the "rags to riches" road to fame/power/fortune. this means all other characters more or less stick to the state they're born with

2. MCs have infinite plot armor, and Mashima has more than once demonstrated this
Vmem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 02:03   Link #10390
Pinwheel10
WHOOSH!
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: A Yellow Submarine
Age: 19
What if Mashima does kill Erza? Or at least maim her. It's not totally impossible; 'cause even if Kagura slices her up this time, there is this time machine that we call the "Eclipse Plan" that could reverse things completely. Plus, it could lead to the unexpected result future Lucy was referring to. That is, if Mashima wishes to push things the extra mile and go completely unpredictable. Just saying (it's highly unlikely, I know haha)
Pinwheel10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 04:07   Link #10391
Taco Bell
Gordita's for Everyone
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
erza better be defeated if the attack hit her. I could understand Erza coming back from the Azuma fight because she needed to get the tree working, but in a tourney where there is still 4 other members and she got destroyed by kagura no way.

That said I still am going with the Minverva subbed in milliana theory.
Taco Bell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 11:52   Link #10392
Vmem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Given that Erza has more or less replaced Lucy as Mashima's fan service favorite, I doubt he would dare to do anything to her. though I agree with you guys that it would be great story writing if he does
Vmem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 13:35   Link #10393
Fenrir_valindri
Miria's #1 Disciple
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
I honestly would be quite annoyed if Erza let Kagura off her out of guilt, as this would effectively make her a gigantic hypocrite considering what she told Gerard, and her promise to Natsu back at the Tower of Heaven arc.

I think its fairly clear Erza hasn't gone all out, considering she hasn't even resorted to her best Ex-quips yet, and stopped fighting entirely once Kagura's identity was revealed.
__________________
http://i.imgur.com/rZD75r9.jpg
Fenrir_valindri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 15:25   Link #10394
mtgowns
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
I honestly would be quite annoyed if Erza let Kagura off her out of guilt, as this would effectively make her a gigantic hypocrite considering what she told Gerard, and her promise to Natsu back at the Tower of Heaven arc.

I think its fairly clear Erza hasn't gone all out, considering she hasn't even resorted to her best Ex-quips yet, and stopped fighting entirely once Kagura's identity was revealed.
I wouldn't say it's necessarily hypocritical but I think it would be out of her character. She's resolute and has the ability to accept that past deeds can't be undone; plus she's already had her episode of giving up without much of the fight (beginning of the Tower of Heaven arc).
mtgowns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 15:35   Link #10395
Fenrir_valindri
Miria's #1 Disciple
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Yes, but that episode happened before her character development. The end of the Tower of Heaven arc was very much focused on Erza never doing something as foolish as giving up her life again.
__________________
http://i.imgur.com/rZD75r9.jpg
Fenrir_valindri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 19:59   Link #10396
Tempest35
Awe of She
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando
Yes, Fenrir, but remember, Erza holds a gigantic Idiot Ball named 'Jellal'.
Anything concerning him lowers her IQ by at least a third so she ends up doing stupid things if she sees no immediate way out.

Natsu, punch some sense into Erza again... Please.
__________________
"Focus entirely on me, you ordinary soldier."
Tempest35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 20:23   Link #10397
mtgowns
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
Yes, but that episode happened before her character development. The end of the Tower of Heaven arc was very much focused on Erza never doing something as foolish as giving up her life again.
I mean, I used the example to say that Erza wouldn't do the same thing in the future because not only her outlook has changed, but the consequences of giving up are ingrained in her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
Yes, Fenrir, but remember, Erza holds a gigantic Idiot Ball named 'Jellal'.
Anything concerning him lowers her IQ by at least a third so she ends up doing stupid things if she sees no immediate way out.

Natsu, punch some sense into Erza again... Please.
Jellal is very slack-jawed, but I can't really fault him. All the "evil" he did was not his conscious doing and he likely still can't comprehend how could he driven to do all these things.

..although after hanging out with Ultear for six year, you'd think he would've learned a thing or two about accepting losses and moving on. He needs to make an appointment with Kenshin Himura!
mtgowns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 22:46   Link #10398
Pinwheel10
WHOOSH!
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: A Yellow Submarine
Age: 19
The thing about Jellal is that he is Erza's weakness. After all the evil that that guy did Erza was still willing to forgive him. Remember that episode in the Tower of Paradise arc, when she finally had him pinned on the floor? Just a little self-pity talk from him and then next thing you know she's hugging him already. Seriously? And in her fight with Kagura, I find it illogical that she claims it was her weakness that killed Simon, that weakness being the fact that she couldn't kill Jellal earlier in their encounter. So it makes it seem that she regrets not killing Jellal back then, but then she's also very glad that he's with her right now. I don't get it. The things love can do to your brain :/
Pinwheel10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-16, 19:09   Link #10399
kitten320
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 24
When exactly did I say that Kagura will win?

I said like 10-20 pages ago before this and other chapters were released that Erza will kick everyones' butt for she is invincible Erza who can't lose. I've raged about this predictable fact many times and still can't believe that authors keep following same cheap logic.

However, just because main characters win does not mean that their opponent is weak. By that logic none of antogoists ever present was strong.
So if a Fairy Tail member is to beat Jura, does it mean that he is weak? Even though all of you are screaming that he is strong now.

And why would I quote and argue on something I agree with?
__________________
kitten320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-16, 23:20   Link #10400
ReinhartX
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
i suddenly thought about this regard kagura and her sword

Spoiler for Comparison to RAVE:
ReinhartX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, adventure, fantasy, magic, shounen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.