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Old 2013-01-15, 17:53   Link #861
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Genre and plot notwithstanding, the fact the BD/DVD bring little to no actual content over the TV ver, nor ANY Sakuga/animation enhancement are a glaring deterrent for such expensive purchase. BD and DVD are basically a meaningful purchase that are the main support to the industry, but also a token of pride and collection. So having physical copies that are basically the carbon copy of what you got from your recorder obviously tone done the meaningfulness of such purchase.
Not that I don't understand this concept, but if they truly liked the series they would support it nonetheless. I just happen to think Shinsekai Yori is one of the most amazing shows to come out in awhile and for it to get such a terrible reception just spells out a horrible industry environment for people with my tastes. It seems the most .gif-able shows with the most 2chan cred continue to reap the most rewards out there and that is just disappointing to me.
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Old 2013-01-15, 18:02   Link #862
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I won't debate over that matter considering it isn't really the subject and it may take a long while, but just to put it straight: no matter how crazed some Japanese fans may be, BD and Dvd are big deal in term of expense, especially if you add everything else (from accomodations to other expensive hobbies like galge). So if there are choices to make in term of purchase, additional content is the prime selling factor (read: uncensorship, interview etc. A bit how To Love Ru Darkness is faring extremely well in such regards).

Of course, I will admit that something is up there to make them buy like crazy series like SAO despite it doesn't improve anything either in the BD (although SAO has a "average/ok" budget unlike SSY).
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Old 2013-01-15, 19:18   Link #863
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Look at what Seirei no Moribito did on disc, despite a great critical reaction. Was there ever any belief that in this day and age an anime can sell without pushing the right buttons based on tremendous artistic merit alone?
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Old 2013-01-15, 19:51   Link #864
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The exorbitant dvd costs just make even buying 2 episodes to support the franchise difficult, so any hardcopy material must have superior extras to go with it. Otherwise, even those that are willing to support it, can't. Wallets only go down that deep.

It's unfortunate really, but that's how it goes. Maybe it'll sell well over overseas? I guess it's not even likely it'll make it over there.

But maybe improve Novel sales?
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Old 2013-01-15, 20:18   Link #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Look at what Seirei no Moribito did on disc, despite a great critical reaction. Was there ever any belief that in this day and age an anime can sell without pushing the right buttons based on tremendous artistic merit alone?
The case of Seirei no Moribito came to mind for me as well, but after thinking about it a bit I noticed what are for me some significant differences.

1) Shinsekai strikes me as having appeal to a certain "alternative otaku" segment of the market in a way Moribito does not. And indeed, barring a serious flaw in this survey, it would appear Shinsekai's reception on 2ch was pretty decent:
http://www.crunchyroll.ca/anime-news...2chs-favorites
2) Outside the very hyped 10K+ segment of the market, anime DVD and Bluray sales have always struck me as having a patronage quality to them. And if I go into it with that mindset, I find myself asking "Moribito has NHK funding, why do they need my support?" (With the losses NHK may have taken being more of a "hindsight is 20/20" thing). I don't find myself asking that for Shinsekai, It airs at 12:30AM, which is the kind of timeslot that suggests that they may not have much in the way of other funding.
3) Moribito's number aren't abnormally low by anime standards, they look poor because of the budget and visuals (which, I'll admit, I would have expected to pull in quite a few more sales). Assuming that the undiclosed number of DVD sales isn't much higher than the Bluray sales, Shinsekai's sales really are that bad.
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Old 2013-01-16, 00:21   Link #866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
The case of Seirei no Moribito came to mind for me as well, but after thinking about it a bit I noticed what are for me some significant differences.

1) Shinsekai strikes me as having appeal to a certain "alternative otaku" segment of the market in a way Moribito does not. And indeed, barring a serious flaw in this survey, it would appear Shinsekai's reception on 2ch was pretty decent:
http://www.crunchyroll.ca/anime-news...2chs-favorites
2) Outside the very hyped 10K+ segment of the market, anime DVD and Bluray sales have always struck me as having a patronage quality to them. And if I go into it with that mindset, I find myself asking "Moribito has NHK funding, why do they need my support?" (With the losses NHK may have taken being more of a "hindsight is 20/20" thing). I don't find myself asking that for Shinsekai, It airs at 12:30AM, which is the kind of timeslot that suggests that they may not have much in the way of other funding.
3) Moribito's number aren't abnormally low by anime standards, they look poor because of the budget and visuals (which, I'll admit, I would have expected to pull in quite a few more sales). Assuming that the undiclosed number of DVD sales isn't much higher than the Bluray sales, Shinsekai's sales really are that bad.
1700 per volume, which is about what Moribito did, is pretty darn low no matter the budget.
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Old 2013-01-16, 01:15   Link #867
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
1700 per volume, which is about what Moribito did, is pretty darn low no matter the budget.
1997 per volume based on our thread. Low? Sure. Abnormally low? Not if my impression of what the disc sales bell curve looks like is anything near accurate.

(I'm lazy... anyone else want to break out Excel?)
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Old 2013-01-16, 01:24   Link #868
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Sales don't determine whether a show was truly good or not, nor whether it was quality, nor whether you should like it or not.

They're more an indication of popularity, marketing, pre-existing fanbases from another medium and fanbases convincing themselves their title is better than everyone else's fave because their title sold more.
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Old 2013-01-16, 01:46   Link #869
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They also happen to be one of the few readily available indicators of how commercially successful a show was and hence are useful for armchair speculation on what comes next - albeit not as useful as they may initially appear due to different budgets, business models, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
The exorbitant dvd costs just make even buying 2 episodes to support the franchise difficult, so any hardcopy material must have superior extras to go with it. Otherwise, even those that are willing to support it, can't. Wallets only go down that deep.

It's unfortunate really, but that's how it goes. Maybe it'll sell well over overseas? I guess it's not even likely it'll make it over there.
It's licensed by Sentai for North America, though Sentai actually licenses quite a bit so that in itself doesn't mean much.

(For reference, I tend to find that Wikipedia is usually a pretty quick way to find out if a show is licensed.
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Old 2013-01-16, 01:53   Link #870
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**,*** *0 BTOOOM!
**,*** *0 Code:Breaker
**,*** *0 Hayate no Gotoku! Can't Take My Eyes Off You
**,*** *0 Sukitte Ii na yo

Does this mean those four sold nothing at all? oO
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Old 2013-01-16, 02:03   Link #871
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Let's say that their sales numbers are so low it is nearly impossible to have an appropriate estimation. Generally speaking, these are below the 800-500 low benchmark.
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Old 2013-01-16, 04:32   Link #872
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by bahamut zero View Post
**,*** *0 BTOOOM!
**,*** *0 Code:Breaker
**,*** *0 Hayate no Gotoku! Can't Take My Eyes Off You
**,*** *0 Sukitte Ii na yo

Does this mean those four sold nothing at all? oO
You know, given how bad Code;Breaker and HnG!: CTMEOY are (even from fan’s POV), I don’t find it too hard to believe that they sold nothing (even if it’s not true).
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Old 2013-01-16, 09:16   Link #873
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lol @ the sales for HnG!: CTMEOY, dat Manglobe curse strikes again....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Not that I don't understand this concept, but if they truly liked the series they would support it nonetheless.
Or they'll just go buy the light novels which is a far cheaper alternative as well as offering the original and different experience since the anime is obviously not 1:1 (Not that I know but it's true in most cases, especially POV characters get their thoughts cut out). Look @ Baka Test as an example, the light novels skyrocketed because of the anime, yet the anime sold crap. Personally I'll rather buy 4 LN/Manga @ 500 yen instead of 9 volumes of Blu rays @ 7000+ yen or whatever it sells for.

You would have to offer something that would make me want to get the BDs... look @ Bakemonogatari, a lot of reworked scenes (though you could say they shouldn't have had to have been reworked in the first place if not for SHAFT incompetence), Commentary done in character written by Nisio himself, those are reasons to want to buy something like the BDs. A lot of BDs include Event Passes you can only get with the first volume, look @ Love Live's Vol 1 being high in Amazon charts because of this, sometimes they offer short stories with volumes, IIRC SAO did that with Vol 1 unless I confused it with something else. Of course hivemind plays a part, you only have to look @ otakus with Bake and Madoka as well as Fujoshis with T&B and Kuroko to see that.

So if SSY was always going to be a series that was going to struggle to sell and they offered nothing extra to entice people... don't know why anyone should be dismayed or surprised @ these results.... isn't it getting a complete adaptation anyway? It's not like SSY is a Baccano where only... 5 (series covered 4, think the OVAs did another) out of a heap of books was animated and we'll never know what happens afterwards because of low sales. And speaking of Baccano... I'm really surprised that DRR hasn't been green lit for a second season by Aniplex..., thanks to fujoshis that was a smash hit unlike Baccano.. surely enough material is out for a second... and unlike Haruhi's author it's not like Narita takes years to write shit.
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Old 2013-01-16, 09:32   Link #874
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To be honest, i don't buy my blu-rays for the content itself (even if it has slightly redone scenes) but primarily as something for my collection and the physical bonus inserts because of the high costs.
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Old 2013-01-16, 15:33   Link #875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
LB results are... "quite big" considering the adaptation, but on its own as a very well known franchise, it is quite a lukewarm result, not on par with Kanon and Clannad, despite the huge fanbase. Whether or not it is because of the adaptation or other issues is a different story.
People are arguing is 10,000 being a success or not consider it's made by J.C Staff.

Kanon, Angel Beats and Clannad's glorious quality pushed them to around 30,000.
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Old 2013-01-16, 15:38   Link #876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Let's say that their sales numbers are so low it is nearly impossible to have an appropriate estimation. Generally speaking, these are below the 800-500 low benchmark.
My personal thought on BTOOM! flopping was because it was actually tamer than the original manga which had blatant rape scenes.
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Old 2013-01-16, 15:39   Link #877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
So if SSY was always going to be a series that was going to struggle to sell and they offered nothing extra to entice people... don't know why anyone should be dismayed or surprised @ these results.... isn't it getting a complete adaptation anyway? It's not like SSY is a Baccano where only... 5 (series covered 4, think the OVAs did another) out of a heap of books was animated and we'll never know what happens afterwards because of low sales. And speaking of Baccano... I'm really surprised that DRR hasn't been green lit for a second season by Aniplex..., thanks to fujoshis that was a smash hit unlike Baccano.. surely enough material is out for a second... and unlike Haruhi's author it's not like Narita takes years to write shit.
I am not surprised, however, I am dismayed. Like extra features to entice people into buying something is nice, but anime is not just a collectible item in Japan. It's a way of paying support to the creators in a tangible manner, which just says "please make more of this stuff." Sure A-1 probably could have hassled to put in more effort by improving the animation in scenes or giving nice extras, but I presume they thought it was not even worth the effort since it just never was going to sell. That's what depresses me here, that something so creative and imaginative... Something so great cannot achieve success because it is not a 2chan fad of some sort.
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Old 2013-01-16, 20:28   Link #878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
That's what depresses me here, that something so creative and imaginative... Something so great cannot achieve success because it is not a 2chan fad of some sort.
I don't think it's "because" it's not a fad. I think the collector's market on the whole just has different tastes than you do in this case. I think that is also something that I can easily say is common to everyone I know who collects -- sometimes your tastes align with majority, but other times they don't. I've bought my share of shows that never ranked, and pretty much everyone I know who is in any way serious has had the same experience. The market is just formed of tens of thousands of individual purchasers who have to make individual purchasing decisions about what (generally few) shows they want to have on their shelves. This show apparently wasn't chosen by many. But as was said, maybe other merchandise is benefiting. Or maybe it'll just have a really, really long tail. Who knows...
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Old 2013-01-16, 21:16   Link #879
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And others want a product, but not for "those prices" and wait for it to go on discount.
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Old 2013-01-16, 21:25   Link #880
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
But as was said, maybe other merchandise is benefiting.
I did a search for SSY merchandise today and found nothing at all. The merchandise thread here contains just this item found by BluWacky. Apparently neither Saki nor Maria qualify for the figurine and dakimakara treatment.

I'd be curious to know whether sales of the novel have seen a boost since the anime began. There's also a spinoff manga.

Edit: Never mind. I looked it up here.

I find sales for the light novel in the week 10/1-7 of somewhat over 6,000 copies which were sufficient to break into the top twenty for that week. Total sales amounted to 150,408. (Site says volume 1. Are there more?) After that SSY doesn't appear in a weekly report, which usually cuts off around 5,000 copies. It doesn't appear in the total report for November, 2011-November, 2012, either, which cuts off at 24th place with 265,000 copies. So I don't see any substantial boost in the novel sales.
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