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Old 2013-01-18, 15:55   Link #901
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
I thought that was pretty obvious from the first instance Mao started speaking while the village-idiot Yusha pointed his rather large sword at the general direction of the Mao's generous buxom.
i thought so to but obviously some viewers didn't get the point

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Could care less what the village-idiot do. He is a bed warmer for Mao as far as I am concerned. When her affection wears off for him, hopefully soon, he will be killed unsuspectingly by an annoyed donkey. I know, I'm hoping against hope.
He could take a arrow to the knee and retire to become a city guard.
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Old 2013-01-18, 16:07   Link #902
MAX_COLA_POWER!
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Originally Posted by Dark Wing View Post
I personally thought it was cute of him to tell her he'll give her the real thing when he got back...
Why do I feel that "when I get back" he said is gonna be like, close to endless waiting? The preview for episode 4 didn't lift my spirits. Sad Maou=Sad Franky. Also, listen to head maid you two, you have to bone to save the world!, well not really, BUT HURRY AND GET TO IT ALREADY!
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Old 2013-01-18, 16:09   Link #903
monir
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Finally got a chance to watch ... yay, something "not in the usual rut"! I can always wish for more romance but what I've seen I find very watchable. I feel like I should be playing "Settlers of Catan" or some similar economics game while watching
Composition wise, the dialogues in the show isn't in the same caliber as Ookami to Koushinryou aka Spice and Wolf (a show I regard highly), but the basic idea behind this story is similar. It's about tackling old ideas even at the prospect of fierce resistance and against heavy odds so things can get better for everyone. In Spice and Wolf, the theme of change from those perspective was fairly local. In this story, the scheme to change things is much more grand. So far so good, well except for those moments when the Yuusha takes up space into the screen. Okami to Koushinryou didn't have that annoying problem since the male protagonist was fairly competent.

I wonder if any manga/novel reader had the same impression about this hero when reading about this story for the first time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos
He could take a arrow to the knee and retire to become a city guard.
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Old 2013-01-18, 16:24   Link #904
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
I wonder if any manga/novel reader had the same impression about this hero when reading about this story for the first time.
His role in the story is to be the idiot who needs everything explained to him. This is a very important role. Otherwise it'd just be Maou talking to herself all the time. And now that he's served his role in introducing the story, he disappears to the Demon World on a long-term quest so we don't have to watch them interact anymore. Which incidentally also gives the writers a chance to show us what the Demon World is like, while still from the perspective of someone who knows nothing.
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Old 2013-01-18, 16:38   Link #905
monir
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
His role in the story is to be the idiot who needs everything explained to him. This is a very important role. Otherwise it'd just be Maou talking to herself all the time. And now that he's served his role in introducing the story, he disappears to the Demon World on a long-term quest so we don't have to watch them interact anymore. Which incidentally also gives the writers a chance to show us what the Demon World is like, while still from the perspective of someone who knows nothing.
That's not what I was asking. I was asking what did you think about him when you read up to this point in the story for the first time? How did he impress you at that time? The general outlook for any character can change as the story progresses, and I'm open to the idea that I may very likely to have a change of heart about Yuusha as I watch more episode. What I want to know if any manga readers were annoyed by his character up to this point into the anime story. I can say some good things about him too just to prove I'm not entirely lost about his character, but I'll wait till your reply.
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Old 2013-01-18, 16:40   Link #906
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
I wonder if any manga/novel reader had the same impression about this hero when reading about this story for the first time.
My impression of the Hero is that he is undereducated (ignorant) but not stupid.
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Old 2013-01-18, 16:49   Link #907
Clarste
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Originally Posted by monir View Post
That's not what I was asking. I was asking what did you think about him when you read up to this point in the story for the first time? How did he impress you at that time? The general outlook for any character can change as the story progresses, and I'm open to the idea that I may very likely to have a change of heart about Yuusha as I watch more episode. What I want to know if any manga readers were annoyed by his character up to this point into the anime story. I can say some good things about him too just to prove I'm not entirely lost about his character, but I'll wait till your reply.
I thought I just said I thought of him as an idiot who needs everything explained to him. It doesn't annoy me though because that's his role in the story. You can't have a story like this with only smart characters.
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Old 2013-01-18, 17:03   Link #908
monir
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
I thought I just said I thought of him as an idiot who needs everything explained to him. It doesn't annoy me though because that's his role in the story. You can't have a story like this with only smart characters.
Oh yes, you can! There are few out there already, and I've named one in my previous post as an example, but I'll leave it that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos
My impression of the Hero is that he is undereducated (ignorant) but not stupid.
I would say it is fair to place him as more immature than undereducated one, but I agree that he isn't stupid. If he was, then the girl would have been stabbed in the first episode.
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Old 2013-01-18, 17:04   Link #909
Clarste
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Originally Posted by monir View Post
Oh yes, you can! There are few out there already, and I've named one in my previous post as an example, but I'll leave it that.
The story is not at all like Spice and Wolf.
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Old 2013-01-18, 17:07   Link #910
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
My impression of the Hero is that he is undereducated (ignorant) but not stupid.
I wouldn't even say ignorant....just that he has never known, heard or taught about it.

I mean, how can you know asset management when you don't even have any?
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Old 2013-01-18, 17:11   Link #911
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
Composition wise, the dialogues in the show isn't in the same caliber as Ookami to Koushinryou aka Spice and Wolf (a show I regard highly), but the basic idea behind this story is similar. It's about tackling old ideas even at the prospect of fierce resistance and against heavy odds so things can get better for everyone. In Spice and Wolf, the theme of change from those perspective was fairly local.
In S&W, it was about catching the winds of change to turn a profit. They weren't out to change anything, and they were mostly reacting.

Here, it's about initiating the change to transform the whole world.

Quote:
In this story, the scheme to change things is much more grand. So far so good, well except for those moments when the Yuusha takes up space into the screen. Okami to Koushinryou didn't have that annoying problem since the male protagonist was fairly competent.

I wonder if any manga/novel reader had the same impression about this hero when reading about this story for the first time.


Yeah, at that point, he was pretty much unnecessary muscle. And taxi service, I guess.

I really liked the (manga) contrast between the reactions of Hero and Knight when they had the potato explained to them. It showed the Female Knight was, unlike the hero, quite book smart. At least, she immediately caught the implications of the potato's yield.
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Old 2013-01-18, 17:23   Link #912
monir
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
In S&W, it was about catching the winds of change to turn a profit. They weren't out to change anything, and they were mostly reacting.
Not intentionally, but they were indeed changing things inadvertently around them and they have also changed (sometime forced to) their own outlook as a result. While the details for these two stories are different, the underlying theme between the two stories aren't. I would leave it at that since I've no intention to drag this thread into a comparison discussion.

Quote:
I really liked the (manga) contrast between the reactions of Hero and Knight when they had the potato explained to them. It showed the Female Knight was, unlike the hero, quite book smart. At least, she immediately caught the implications of the potato's yield.
Thank you! Exactly! Finally we are getting some where to answering my question. So what make her so different than the Hero?
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Old 2013-01-18, 17:25   Link #913
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Still going to take some time for me to get used to everyone being called by a title instead of an actual name.
The show doesn't fail to keep me glued to the screen despite the lack action sequences, sudden revelations (until now!) and other gimmicks. The plot's just that appealing to me. It's no Spice&Wolf, but it's not a bad piece of entertainment either.

But for the Demon King's secret weapon to be... potatoes. Well, that caught me off guard. Ahhhh I should've known better!
Kind of sad that our hero's off on a quest alongside his brand new evil armor. I liked his interactions with the king.
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Old 2013-01-18, 17:35   Link #914
Xacual
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Originally Posted by monir View Post
Thank you! Exactly! Finally we are getting some where to answering my question. So what make her so different than the Hero?
In the manga, Hero didn't really get her explanations until she basically was all the way done with them on how the potato would help. Female Knight grasped it right at the beginning and was basically rushing to offer any assistance she could.

This is kind of obviously due to their different lifestyles though. Female Knight is from a Church Order that focuses primarily on agriculture and educational help to villages. Hero doesn't have that kind of background.
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Old 2013-01-18, 18:08   Link #915
Kanon
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Even though this is usually the type of show I love, I don't find the story very engaging so far. Maybe this is because the characters are so depersonalized to the point they don't even have names? Characters are very important to me. So far, all of them seem to be little more than walking plot devices.
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Old 2013-01-18, 18:12   Link #916
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by monir View Post
Not intentionally, but they were indeed changing things inadvertently around them and they have also changed (sometime forced to) their own outlook as a result. While the details for these two stories are different, the underlying theme between the two stories aren't. I would leave it at that since I've no intention to drag this thread into a comparison discussion.


Thank you! Exactly! Finally we are getting some where to answering my question. So what make her so different than the Hero?
Female Knight has an air of nobility about her. I don't know their actual backgrounds, but she looks a bit like a younger son of nobility. One that won't inherit, but is still offered great opportunities for advancement - she was educated, in letters as well as sword wielding, and she has a serious personality, so she applied herself.

Hero looks more like a commoner, even though I don't think he was, quite. (There was that scene in the anime where he, as a child, is at a gathering of nobles. Maybe he was destined from birth to be the hero?) But he never paid attention to anything that wasn't about, well, hero-ing. Not until he met Demon Queen.
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Old 2013-01-18, 18:45   Link #917
Graveyard Duck
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
I thought I just said I thought of him as an idiot who needs everything explained to him. It doesn't annoy me though because that's his role in the story. You can't have a story like this with only smart characters.
You can if you use two characters with complementary intellectual specialties. Take Prelude to Foundation as an example. Hari Seldon is trying to develop a mathematical system for predicting and directing the future of society. He needs an understanding of history to choose the correct starting conditions. But since he is from a backwater world and was primarily interested only in math until the point of the story, he knows little about history or society. So he is paired with a historian, Dors, who serves the double role of giving him social observations as well as being his bodyguard. Because Hari is intelligent, he is able to interrupt Dors' exposition to provide his conclusions. This serves two purposes in addition to drawing out the social observations:

1. It allows the story to present common misconceptions, because Hari is a neophyte, though an intelligent one.
2. It interrupts the exposition, so it's not one character droning on and on.

We can apply this model to a theoretical concept of Maoyu. Let's suppose that instead of the Hero, the Demon King's partnership is with the Knight. The Knight is a reasonably intelligent and reasonably high ranking official of a highly influential organization in the human world. Her expertise can include political maneuvering in the human world. This would divide the world building between the Demon King and the Knight to have one present the end solution and the other to present the method of implementing the solution. Compared to the set up now, it would have have a few advantages:

1. It removes the need for an idiot to draw out the exposition, because each partner is presenting a piece of the solution.
2. It avoids building up a superman who has the solutions to everything, because one uses the expertise of the other for the solution.
3. It gives us delicious, delicious yuri.

But that doesn't mean the current setup is unacceptable. Famous, well-receive, and enduring stories such as Sherlock Holmes and Looking Backward use the "idiot" figure to draw out exposition. If you examine some of the famous utopian/dystopian stories--Looking Backward, The Sleeper Wakes, etc--, you'll see that this technique is pretty common for world building stories. It does, however, diminish the importance and perception of the "idiot," as seen in the criticisms against the Hero in this thread and the tendency to make Watson a bumbler.
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Old 2013-01-18, 19:20   Link #918
CJ_Walker
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Originally Posted by Graveyard Duck View Post
You can if you use two characters with complementary intellectual specialties. Take Prelude to Foundation as an example. Hari Seldon is trying to develop a mathematical system for predicting and directing the future of society. He needs an understanding of history to choose the correct starting conditions. But since he is from a backwater world and was primarily interested only in math until the point of the story, he knows little about history or society. So he is paired with a historian, Dors, who serves the double role of giving him social observations as well as being his bodyguard. Because Hari is intelligent, he is able to interrupt Dors' exposition to provide his conclusions. This serves two purposes in addition to drawing out the social observations:

1. It allows the story to present common misconceptions, because Hari is a neophyte, though an intelligent one.
2. It interrupts the exposition, so it's not one character droning on and on.

We can apply this model to a theoretical concept of Maoyu. Let's suppose that instead of the Hero, the Demon King's partnership is with the Knight. The Knight is a reasonably intelligent and reasonably high ranking official of a highly influential organization in the human world. Her expertise can include political maneuvering in the human world. This would divide the world building between the Demon King and the Knight to have one present the end solution and the other to present the method of implementing the solution. Compared to the set up now, it would have have a few advantages:

1. It removes the need for an idiot to draw out the exposition, because each partner is presenting a piece of the solution.
2. It avoids building up a superman who has the solutions to everything, because one uses the expertise of the other for the solution.
3. It gives us delicious, delicious yuri.

But that doesn't mean the current setup is unacceptable. Famous, well-receive, and enduring stories such as Sherlock Holmes and Looking Backward use the "idiot" figure to draw out exposition. If you examine some of the famous utopian/dystopian stories--Looking Backward, The Sleeper Wakes, etc--, you'll see that this technique is pretty common for world building stories. It does, however, diminish the importance and perception of the "idiot," as seen in the criticisms against the Hero in this thread and the tendency to make Watson a bumbler.
!! you're bringing Asimov into this?!!

. . .this thread just got SERIOUS!

on another note, its too bad that the creators are pandering again - the whole part about the fact that the girl has to be aggressive to a VIRGIN.

Totally reeks of Otaku wish fulfillment. as 1) no MAN with a working unit would EVER act like he's acting (unless he likes men)

and 2) no woman would constantly pursue a man that unless: she was like 14, in high school, and never had a man before (she's not 14 and not in highschool)

I can totally see how people can, are, and will get frustrated with the hero dude. . .especially after this episode. I really wish this troupe would disappear in anime. . .but normal people arent the targeted demographic, so we just gotta deal with it lol
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Old 2013-01-18, 19:25   Link #919
Mentar
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*sigh*

I'm sorry, but if I said that I'm happy with the anime conversion, I'd be lying. Lord knows that I want to love the show, and I was tremendously looking forward to it. But in order to explain why, I need to do something I tend to criticize when others do it: By comparing it to my own prior expectations and lamenting that it doesn't match them - and not by taking the show at face value, as-is. Still, I feel I have to.

For me, the reference MaoYuu is the Ishida version, which I love to pieces. I recognize that this interpretation is only one of many possible, but this is where I'm coming from. Compared to it, I feel that the anime is inferior in pretty much every single aspect which it changed.

- The entire quirky humor is missing. The anime is taking itself way too seriously, and it is almost completely devoid of the little funny banter between the characters. Boring.

- Massive reinterpretation of my second favorite character in the show: Female Knight. In both versions she has a short fuse, and she can go into crusader mode easily. But in the Ishida version, this is tempered by kindness, genuine smiles and a sense of humor. Her anime version is an insufferable Saber-II clone slapping the Hero instead of cutely yelling at him, and mean-spiritedly threatening the Demon Queen over Hero instead of the ribbing from the manga. It completely kills her charm (again, way too serious)

- Hero in the anime is a doormat. In the manga, he was trying to escape, while in ep2 he was clearly moving to a consentual kiss. In the anime, their relationship is "sweeter", which isn't necessarily worse, but it's only one more aspect where the show offers less tension.

- Demon Queen only gets flustered in romance things, and is in perfect control otherwise. In the manga she's going through much more (cute and funny) panicky self-doubts. I really miss those.

- I consider the art clearly inferior to the manga. But okay, this can be attributed to personal preference.

In this aspect, it also doesn't help to have almost all names changed from what I got used to. Demon King, Knight, Mage, Alliance... "these aren't the droids you've been looking for".

So I'm sorry, but I can't join the chorus of happiness. This interpretation isn't necessarily bad, but it's much less funny, much less lively-intense and taking itself way too seriously to really convince me. In my most humble opinion, it's been done better before. MUCH better.
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Old 2013-01-18, 19:33   Link #920
Vexx
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Sounds like I'll be led to reading the source.
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