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Old 2013-01-17, 23:00   Link #2721
Used Can
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green One View Post
Not really, her personal style trends to a certain type of waits with her bowling theme, but she's not restricted to it as she'll use Akado's old style as well. No super natural skills to speak of, just skill.
Isn't that very similar to Nodoka and Hisa?
I don't think it's a good idea to lump characters with defined signature moves or styles like Nodoka, Hisa and Sumire, with characters with clearly defined superpowers like Yuu, Kuro and Momo.
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Old 2013-01-18, 02:46   Link #2722
Felyndiira
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Isn't that very similar to Nodoka and Hisa?
I don't think it's a good idea to lump characters with defined signature moves or styles like Nodoka, Hisa and Sumire, with characters with clearly defined superpowers like Yuu, Kuro and Momo.
Sumire is as much an ability user as Toyone is. Her "sharpshooting" requires her to basically be able to draw very specific tiles to match the discardable tiles on her opponent's hands (she could do it on command, too). Plus, it also requires her to be able to know what tile an opponent will discard to improve her hand, which you can almost never do by reading tiles alone (you can get a sense of what an opponent's hand is shaping up to be, but not the tile she still has and cannot use at all). All of this extends quite a bit beyond the basic "luck" that skilled players tote around.

For Arata, not being restricted to her bowling waits (remember: she only won once with a non-pin wait) does not at all mean that she doesn't have a skewed drawing ability as implied in Achiga. We see Yuu pull it off as well - winning off of non-warm tiles like the eight of pins/six of bamboos when her draws are explicitly mentioned to be skewed towards red tiles. What is more important is that purposely restricting her winning hands to pinfu waits most of the time is actually a detriment in normal mahjong - it makes you more predictable and less flexible, while really offering no advantages at all (Arata doesn't really seem to go for flushes); the only way for her insistence on using bowling pin waits to make sense is if she actually has a higher chance to draw bowling formations than other tiles - supported, in fact, by how all of her bowling wait wins are by tsumo.

I'm not entirely sure that Hisa can classify entirely as non-ability, either. Her hell waits in the individual matches (when they weren't targeted at Bundou) skew probability by quite a bit, and she does self-draw on hell waits way more than standard probability would suggest. She did also mention that the reason she uses hell waits is because they enable her to win - and with only one winning tile remaining, you can't really guarantee winning from opponent discards enough times to justify using it as a main strategy. In addition, she can see "meaning behind the tiles", which enables her to put up a flawless defense in the match against Hajime. All of those suggest that she's an ability user in her own right.

Nodoka, I think, is the only person in your list that is truly a skill-based player.


Also, for the tier list, I'm not sure if we can really call it a 'tier' list as much as a classification list. For instance, there's no question that Mairu is batman and Seiko is an ability user, but we have already seen that pound-for-pound, Mairu is simply stronger than Seiko. Placing 'ability tier' before 'batman tier' in a specific tier list, for instance, mistakenly suggests that ability users are better than batmans (making 'monsters' the only class that is fully accurate as a tier). It would make sense in segmenting the players into groups, but can't really be called 'tier' in any instance.

Last edited by Felyndiira; 2013-01-18 at 03:56.
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Old 2013-01-18, 08:17   Link #2723
Serperior
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Oh, here's some disclaimer from the powerlevel chart that I copy pasta:

Spoiler:


EDIT: Oh yeah, I'm sorry if I this was mentioned but.... there was a rumour floating around /a/ about Shizu's "ability" because of Achiga's PSP game coming out soon. 'course, it's only a rumour but...
Spoiler for Shizu's ability:

Last edited by Serperior; 2013-01-18 at 09:07.
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Old 2013-01-18, 11:05   Link #2724
teja208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serperior View Post
EDIT: Oh yeah, I'm sorry if I this was mentioned but.... there was a rumour floating around /a/ about Shizu's "ability" because of Achiga's PSP game coming out soon. 'course, it's only a rumour but...
Spoiler for Shizu's ability:
Oh my! Lol... that's quite a surprising way to name an ability. Great job if that's true.
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Old 2013-01-18, 11:47   Link #2725
Marina2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serperior View Post
O
EDIT: Oh yeah, I'm sorry if I this was mentioned but.... there was a rumour floating around /a/ about Shizu's "ability" because of Achiga's PSP game coming out soon. 'course, it's only a rumour but...
Spoiler for Shizu's ability:
Wait a sec...I just re-read all chapters.

Shizu did do that in all match ..........

Spoiler for Shizuno's ability:


INTERESTING, it's not something pull out of nowwhere too LOL
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Old 2013-01-18, 13:16   Link #2726
Serperior
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Well, that's if the rumours are true. I would take it for a grain of salt though.

Anyways, latest Achiga chapter scores sheets are out!
Spoiler for Shindouji found a way:


Also: I agree. The main manga's vanguard match is much more exciting now than the captain's battle in Achiga.

I don't know why, the latest revelation of Ryuuka going crazy and Ghost Toki coming up to save her + inherited super powers was kind of a disappointment.

Achiga depends a lot on super-powered mahjong, so seeing Satoha go strategical and analytical on Yuuki is really great. I guess I didn't appreciate it before when I didn't know how to play mahjong, but now that I do, it makes me think that Satoha is a badass and so is Yuuki.

I still can't wait for Suzu's explosion and what Gardevoir has in store. Gardevoir is the presumed ace since she was the focus of the silhoutte, so I'm guessing she'll make her move in the later part of the match since right now, it's totally Satoha vs Yuuki.

Suzu looks cute, even though she's not doing anything. Also, Rinkai's coach wants to recruit Yuuki!? Yuuki is getting more and more badass!!
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Old 2013-01-18, 15:29   Link #2727
King-Slayer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serperior View Post

EDIT: Oh yeah, I'm sorry if I this was mentioned but.... there was a rumour floating around /a/ about Shizu's "ability" because of Achiga's PSP game coming out soon. 'course, it's only a rumour but...
Spoiler for Shizu's ability:
Definitely should be taken with a grain of salt considering that the psp game isn't out and hasn't had a preview yet.

Also looks like Achiga 18 has its final version out. The supernova cometh and Fairy Toki is cute
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Old 2013-01-18, 16:11   Link #2728
fukarming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
Wait a sec...I just re-read all chapters.

Shizu did do that in all match ..........

Spoiler for Shizuno's ability:


INTERESTING, it's not something pull out of nowwhere too LOL
Isn't Saki also always win in the last round?

First club match: win 1000 instead of 7700 and caught Hisa's attention
Second club match: Rinshan Kaihou for 2 han 70 fu
Third club match: 4 concealed triplet
Perfectual final: counted Yakuman
national: small win to kick out Ensui and Miyamori
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Old 2013-01-18, 16:13   Link #2729
The Green One
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
Wait a sec...I just re-read all chapters.

Shizu did do that in all match ..........

Spoiler for Shizuno's ability:


INTERESTING, it's not something pull out of nowwhere too LOL
OBJECTION!!!

The Koromo is the queen of the last round wins, and she utterly wasted Shizu. Either this supposed ability of Shizu isn't absolute, or it's just not correct.
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Old 2013-01-18, 18:02   Link #2730
Peanutbutter
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Miracle Rush eh?

I think it can be slightly amended.

Spoiler for Shizu's ability:
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Old 2013-01-18, 23:01   Link #2731
Felyndiira
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I did a rough mini-translation of the 108 raws. Since I can't read Japanese, I relied mostly on the Baidu Chinese translations, so there might be some things that are lost in translation here. It won't replace Yuriproject's wonderful translations, but just in case if anyone's curious:

Images
Chapter 108 spoilers w/translations and commentary
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Last edited by Felyndiira; 2013-01-19 at 12:00.
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Old 2013-01-19, 01:28   Link #2732
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felyndiira View Post
I did a rough mini-translation of the 108 raws. Since I can't read Japanese, I relied mostly on the Baidu Chinese translations, so there might be some things that are lost in translation here. It won't replace Yuriproject's wonderful translations, but just in case if anyone's curious:

Images
Chapter 108 spoilers w/translations and commentary
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
Hmm, to clarify a bit, it is actually Yuuki who was going to make the chi call and Satoha who interrupted her with a kan. Also, if I remember correctly, the way that parenchan works actually doesn't count exhaustive draws in tenpai (however, you don't (under most rulesets) have to start from the dealer position either). For parenchan to activate, you must actually get 8 wins in a row without losing your dealer position.
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Old 2013-01-19, 01:31   Link #2733
Marina2
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Originally Posted by The Green One View Post
OBJECTION!!!

The Koromo is the queen of the last round wins, and she utterly wasted Shizu. Either this supposed ability of Shizu isn't absolute, or it's just not correct.
(Entered umineko mode)


We are taking about the "last round of the game" not "Winning with the last tile"
Koromo's ability doesn't have anything to do with this.

It is possible that the ability doesn't work in 2 people match!


However, I think it's just coincident event, so let's wait for next ch. to find out.
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Last edited by Marina2; 2013-01-19 at 01:45.
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Old 2013-01-19, 02:33   Link #2734
Sol Falling
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Actually, you know, to think about it. If winning on the last hand is Shizu's actual ability, then it could directly explain Koromo's comment to Saki about being "troublesome".

If you think about it, by far the most key part of Saki's tendency to get +/- 0 depends on the very last hand. There are other factors involved, of course: whether there's someone else with an overall larger point gain, so Saki can avoid the first place bonus; and setting up her own score, so that she could hit the +/- 0 range with her last winning hand (like, I guess the list of possible score for hands of less than limit (i.e. below mangan) value are pretty continuous, but above that level, for example, it is impossible to get a hand of above 9600 but less than 11600 in points). However, the actual key factor for Saki is actually winning that final hand, with the score precisely calculated to land where she needs it to.

However, if the only thing that Shizu's supposed "ability" does is simply specifically allow her to always win the last hand, then that interferes directly with Saki's +/- 0 setup. Even if it doesn't amount to much in terms of firepower, even if it can't even begin to compete with dozens of other powers which would usually be more difficult to face, for Saki "troublesome" is exactly how I'd describe it. It might actually be the perfect development if it is true.
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HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 40/5 :: Locodol 24/5 :: Yama no Susume 32/5
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Old 2013-01-19, 04:56   Link #2735
Von Himmel
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The miracle part sounds possible to me. Based on the last match that we saw, she really did pull some kind of miracle to get to the semifina. I don't fully agree with the part where she will absolutely win the last round though
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Old 2013-01-19, 06:12   Link #2736
tsunade666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felyndiira View Post
I did a rough mini-translation of the 108 raws. Since I can't read Japanese, I relied mostly on the Baidu Chinese translations, so there might be some things that are lost in translation here. It won't replace Yuriproject's wonderful translations, but just in case if anyone's curious:

Images
Chapter 108 spoilers w/translations and commentary
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
Interesting. World Class Players. World Class tournament was being hinted already by the pros during the tournament but by the pacing the group battles are making. I'm expecting YEARS before we even lay our eyes on world tournament and if there would be a world tournament.

Who will you choose as members for it. The monster class are mostly 100% on the list.
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Old 2013-01-19, 07:22   Link #2737
Felyndiira
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Hmm, to clarify a bit, it is actually Yuuki who was going to make the chi call and Satoha who interrupted her with a kan. Also, if I remember correctly, the way that parenchan works actually doesn't count exhaustive draws in tenpai (however, you don't (under most rulesets) have to start from the dealer position either). For parenchan to activate, you must actually get 8 wins in a row without losing your dealer position.
You're right. I apologize for my error - it was Satoha that called the kan to set up her trap, which made Yuuki nervous. I was influenced a bit too much by a random comment on Baidu.

I really did remember the rules for parenchan wrong, it seems. For some reason I always thought it tied into dealer bonus rounds rather than just consecutive wins (also helps that I've never seen or been in a game that had a parenchan). In that case, it seems that Yuuki didn't plan for the exhaustive draws to happen. Satoha is really just pressuring Yuuki really hard, and she's barely hanging on to her dealership by forcing exhaustive draws.

It makes Satoha seem so much scarier in comparison even though she never revealed a single ability .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Actually, you know, to think about it. If winning on the last hand is Shizu's actual ability, then it could directly explain Koromo's comment to Saki about being "troublesome".

If you think about it, by far the most key part of Saki's tendency to get +/- 0 depends on the very last hand. There are other factors involved, of course: whether there's someone else with an overall larger point gain, so Saki can avoid the first place bonus; and setting up her own score, so that she could hit the +/- 0 range with her last winning hand (like, I guess the list of possible score for hands of less than limit (i.e. below mangan) value are pretty continuous, but above that level, for example, it is impossible to get a hand of above 9600 but less than 11600 in points). However, the actual key factor for Saki is actually winning that final hand, with the score precisely calculated to land where she needs it to.

However, if the only thing that Shizu's supposed "ability" does is simply specifically allow her to always win the last hand, then that interferes directly with Saki's +/- 0 setup. Even if it doesn't amount to much in terms of firepower, even if it can't even begin to compete with dozens of other powers which would usually be more difficult to face, for Saki "troublesome" is exactly how I'd describe it. It might actually be the perfect development if it is true.
I really do like this possibility, although I would imagine that Harue wouldn't rely solely on a last-hand winning power when up against awakened awai and Himiko with a yakuman remaining in her future (I am wondering how it is that everyone suddenly knows about her combination ability with Mairu now, despite the fact that Shirotodai explicitly stating that they could not have gathered it without Teru's mirror). With a counted yakuman, Himiko should have a score high enough that only a direct hit baiman+ hand would faze her; Awai, we assume, will collect even more points than that. That's something that, I would imagine, would take more than one last hand to resolve.
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Old 2013-01-19, 09:04   Link #2738
teja208
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So from my understanding in the last year's individual finals we got one first year, two second years, and one third year.
...
...
...

Am I supposed to feel sorry for that third year student?
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Old 2013-01-19, 11:39   Link #2739
Serperior
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Originally Posted by teja208 View Post
So from my understanding in the last year's individual finals we got one first year, two second years, and one third year.
...
...
...

Am I supposed to feel sorry for that third year student?
Why? She graduated already.
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Old 2013-01-19, 11:56   Link #2740
Requiem-x
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So the secret to Shizu's skills might have been in front of us all along? It's like I'm watching angel beats again!

Also, here's a little something I just found. Not really sure if it's fanmade or not, though.

Spoiler for Relationship chart:
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