AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Psycho-Pass

Notices

View Poll Results: Psycho-Pass - Episode 13 Rating
Perfect 10 18 30.00%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 26 43.33%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 23.33%
7 out of 10 : Good 1 1.67%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.67%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-01-18, 23:42   Link #81
Triple_R
"...Why?!", Sailor Faerie
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
And how do we show them even happier?
Maybe by not having them express jealousy over Akane's fortune in life? If you're truly happy, why would you be jealous of your friend? Akane's friends strike me as the closest we come to average young adult women in the world of Psycho-Pass, and they didn't strike me as any more happy than average young adult women in the real world.

We have seen...

1) An awful place of work, where harsh bullying goes on and people are completely cut off from the outside world (even including internet access).

2) People turning to online gurus like Talisman and Spooky Boogy for help.

3) An all-girl's school where the teachers and students don't appear any more or less happy than your typical teenage girl anime character attending an all-girl's school.

4) Kougami's old Professor, who didn't strike me as exactly thrilled with the Sibyl system.

5) The woman who interviewed the Cyborg Hunter. She struck me as about as happy as your average reporter is.

6) Akane's friends.

7) Yayoi as a musician, and her friend Rina.


At this point, we've actually had a fairly diverse sampling of the people living in the world of Psycho-Pass, including teenaged high school students, news reporters, former Professors, high school teachers, police officers, Detectives, factory workers, artists, musicians, directors/managers. Psycho-Pass hasn't covered everything, but it's covered a fair slice of the society of its world. And I'm not seeing significantly happier people than average, everyday people in real life. You have happy couples in real life too, of course.

I would argue that the Director is associating "happiness" with things like job security, basic employment, and lack of crime. And sure, all of that helps to some degree (and is probably why your average person in the world of Psycho-Pass just sort of passively goes along with the system without much complaint), but I don't think it helps as much as the Director thinks it does. Especially when you have places of work as bad as that one from the third episode.


People on this thread have argued that Urobuchi has gone to a great degree to cast Makishima in a negative light. Personally, I would say that Urobuchi has gone to a much greater degree to cast Sibyl in a negative light. We've seen all sorts of people in diverse places and/or professions fall through the cracks of this system. And I haven't seen many people that have benefited in a clear-cut way from this system. Someone like Akane would have excelled in almost any societal context, imo.


Quote:
This isn't some slice-of-life comedy. There is a police procedural aspect (like Law & Order or CSI), where they are purposely diving into the worst aspect of society because that's what these shows are all about.
Police officers will come across average everyday people all the time in their field of work. They don't interact just with criminals all the time. And shows like Law & Order and CSI reflect that. Now, do your average, everyday people in Psycho-Pass seem significantly happier than your average, everyday person in Law & Order or CSI? I'm not seeing it.


Quote:
I also don't buy the "live happier lives" argument. If you mean they're not in jail, then sure.
That's not all I mean. If Yayoi and Rina were living in real world modern Japan, they'd probably be successful musicians right now enjoying life to its fullest. And Kagari has never struck me as some dangerous, loose cannon in spite of him getting institutionalized at the age of 5 by a bad reading. Kagari might have lived a much freer, fuller life in real world Japan. Then there's Gino and his father... Do you think they'd have a better relationship in a world without Sibyl? Gino strikes me as almost constantly stressed out, and the demands of Sibyl is part of what drives that, imo.
__________________
Triple_R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 02:26   Link #82
Quadratic
SIBYL salesman
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Maybe by not having them express jealousy over Akane's fortune in life? If you're truly happy, why would you be jealous of your friend? Akane's friends strike me as the closest we come to average young adult women in the world of Psycho-Pass, and they didn't strike me as any more happy than average young adult women in the real world.
Is the average young adult woman in real life is unhappy, or happy but still somewhat envious of their more sucessful friends?
You're making the assumption that the majority of people in the real world can somehow be happier (but how?), whereas I would think if the majority of people are happy like right now, then a Sibyl world wouldn't improve happiness for the main majority because they've already reached the maximum happiness their current lives will give them.
There wasn't anything implying they would be happier than the old world, just a greater number of "happy" people, achieving the most happiness that they could ever have in their life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I would argue that the Director is associating "happiness" with things like job security, basic employment, and lack of crime. And sure, all of that helps to some degree (and is probably why your average person in the world of Psycho-Pass just sort of passively goes along with the system without much complaint), but I don't think it helps as much as the Director thinks it does. Especially when you have places of work as bad as that one from the third episode.
Fair enough, but a lot of those cases you've listed were exceptional cases and the dissent is obviously in the minority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
People on this thread have argued that Urobuchi has gone to a great degree to cast Makishima in a negative light. Personally, I would say that Urobuchi has gone to a much greater degree to cast Sibyl in a negative light. We've seen all sorts of people in diverse places and/or professions fall through the cracks of this system. And I haven't seen many people that have benefited in a clear-cut way from this system. Someone like Akane would have excelled in almost any societal context, imo.

Police officers will come across average everyday people all the time in their field of work. They don't interact just with criminals all the time. And shows like Law & Order and CSI reflect that. Now, do your average, everyday people in Psycho-Pass seem significantly happier than your average, everyday person in Law & Order or CSI? I'm not seeing it.
If I recall correctly, they are a special task force in the Criminal Investigation Division. They aren't your run of the mill police (which probably doesn't exist anymore, anyway).
I would associate them similar to the characters in Special Victims Unit (except being a proactive task force rather than reactive), in that they deal with the scummiest of scums, and even start questioning their own morality from time to time.
How I viewed this episode in relation to all the previous episodes is that:
a) we just assume the positive aspects of Sibyl is correct (yes, I'm aware they're really only telling this rather than showing)
b) The CID are the support that ensures they are the only ones who see the heinous side of the world (both brought on by Sibyl and human nature).

I would say that the lack of showing the positive aspect of Sibyl to specific people helps prevent the viewers from associating the benefits to a specific person (which helps make us or the characters question on why they're trying to help this world because they don't see a specific person benefiting from it).
The fact it's shown as a thankless job makes it a bit more darker (and probably true in real life, anyway).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
That's not all I mean. If Yayoi and Rina were living in real world modern Japan, they'd probably be successful musicians right now enjoying life to its fullest. And Kagari has never struck me as some dangerous, loose cannon in spite of him getting institutionalized at the age of 5 by a bad reading. Kagari might have lived a much freer, fuller life in real world Japan. Then there's Gino and his father... Do you think they'd have a better relationship in a world without Sibyl? Gino strikes me as almost constantly stressed out, and the demands of Sibyl is part of what drives that, imo.
What-if scenarios are harder to argue on. They could possibly fail and end up as drug addicts and become like...um, Lindsay Lohan?
Ginoza & Masaoka may have had a better relationship without Sibyl, but then there's a whole butterfly effect that goes on, with which crime gets commited and which didn't, how many more/less crimes goes on, etc.
Quadratic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 04:45   Link #83
BoyTitan
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Buffalo,Newyork
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandarake View Post
Oh I agree with you 100%. I don't think Urobuchi is making any kind of allegory here. My own take at this point is that he's just having fun with some very black humor. Perhaps toward the end of the series he will sort things out. Then again, he may continue to mess with our heads to the very last.

Here's my whole deal. Akane, Kougami, Gino and Masaoka all strike me as reasonably intelligent people. Each in his own way has suffered some serious deprivation to the point of dehumanization at the hands of the Sybil system. And yet all of them continue to stick up for the system and the status quo. To wit:
1. When the director reminds Gino that Sybil was responsible for the prosperity and stability of the great many, Gino, who lost his dad to latent criminality, agrees with her without questioning the cost in freedom and human dignity and agrees that public faith in the system must be protected from certain inconvenient facts. This strongly indicates that what the director said to him about Sybil's benefits to society was true.
2. Masaoka says he came to accept and believe in the system long after it had relegated him to being an enforcer and stripped him of his rights as a detective, husband and father.
3. As they enter the confinement center for latent criminals, Kougami tells Akane, without any trace of irony or bitterness, that once the system is done with him that place was where he was going to end up.
4. Akane personally witnessed a catastrophic failure by the system resulting in the murder of her best friend, and yet her quick recovery after the mind scoop indicates that she still sincerely trusted and accepted Sybil and was determined to continue operating within the system.

So the question that comes to my mind is how such apparently intelligent individuals could endure shocking abuse from the system and accept it without any kind of resentment or discontent. The only plausible explanation I can find is a social compact - they believe it's worth enduring these privations in return for having an orderly and prosperous society under Sybil. These people don't strike me as suckers, so the benefits of Sybil that they perceive must be considerable enough, at least in their minds, to offset what it takes from them.
Gino accepted what the lady said cause he knows of no other truth ever hear of propaganda.

Are you even reading other peoples posts -_-|||. There working for sybil cause they have all been conditioned to think its right. Do some comparing to real life events or put your self in the characters shoes.

How can some one born with out much freedom know that there freedom has been taken.

Sybil's benefits to society are lies but people trust sybil so much now it has become they're eyes ears and mouth to put quite frankly they are puppets really I am not getting how some one could miss this.

If they questioned Sybil they're psycho pass would go up like Gino father did until he accepted sybil that sounds alot like how Winston in 1984 was tortured and Held in prison till he was reprogrammed to only love big brother and serve it with out question alot less brutal here in psyho pass but you see the comparison.Eventually Masaoka gave into the propaganda and told him self hai theres less crime with sybil people are loving longer I guess I was the one who was wrong.

The problem I am seeing with people understanding psycho pass is instead of just ruleing threw fear and total brainwashing with propaganda, Or Ruleing threw Lies of prosperity and de education its ruling threw both.

Stories like this are supposed to make us think of were are government is going. Perfect example the new gun law trying to get passed the common person thinks if the government is saying a 10 round magazine is a lot it must be sure restrict the guns.Seeing as how it got passed here in N.Y. state I am going with people will accept anything. When this law is complete B.S. the only thing not banned by this are shot guns and large caliber revolvers most semi auto hand guns have a 8 and above clip size. Same for .22 caliber revolvers. And half the shootings that happen are with illegal guns you never see this kinda uproar about gang shootings but a common person will not do this kinda research they will go with what ever the government says.

We already had people flat out say sybil is bad the Avatars,Rina look how the people in the club for the avatars were treated...These enforcers are starting to seem more like dicks if this keeps up no matter how many people maki kills they are just as bad. They had better start questioning sybil or be made out to look like bad guys during Rina's arc to get some redemption.

Also if anyone taught like you or me in the enforcers situations we would probably be put down before we could rise up or go on the run.
__________________

Last edited by BoyTitan; 2013-01-19 at 05:09.
BoyTitan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 08:27   Link #84
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
That's not all I mean. If Yayoi and Rina were living in real world modern Japan, they'd probably be successful musicians right now enjoying life to its fullest.
Or part time waitresses with money problems.

Quote:
And Kagari has never struck me as some dangerous, loose cannon in spite of him getting institutionalized at the age of 5 by a bad reading. Kagari might have lived a much freer, fuller life in real world Japan.
Or some small time delinquent. He does have a side which likes... pushing boundaries, or maybe breaking rules.

Quote:
Then there's Gino and his father... Do you think they'd have a better relationship in a world without Sibyl? Gino strikes me as almost constantly stressed out, and the demands of Sibyl is part of what drives that, imo.
Which isn't weird, for a guy with his job.


For the most part, I think life under Sibyl is duller. Getting a job you like isn't a triumph. It's just par for the course.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 10:41   Link #85
Cosmic Eagle
卍曼荼羅・無量大数
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 大欲界天狗道
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Or part time waitresses with money problems.


Or some small time delinquent. He does have a side which likes... pushing boundaries, or maybe breaking rules.


Which isn't weird, for a guy with his job.
All of which beats ending up imprisoned and eventually blown apart cheap children's cartoon style because you offend someone high up's ideal...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandarake View Post

I was trying to rationalize their behavior, because on first impression their reactions to the things that have happened to them made zero sense to me. I tried to imagine how I and other people I knew well would react if the same crap happened to us, and it was always totally different.

For example, if I were Masaoka, and the system has deprived me of my property, freedom, family relations, and even dignity, there is no way I could ever muster the energy, morale, self-motivation, efficiency, dedication and tenacity that the real Masaoka displays on the job. I wouldn't joke or smile because I'd be perpetually pissed. What was especially galling to me was that Masaoka was protecting and implementing the very system that reduced him to his current, pitiable state. If that were me I would be hating on anything Sybil-related, and if i ever showed up for work it would be for the sole purpose of sabotage and revenge.

Moreover, we know from Rin's example that armed rebellion and insurrection against the establishment is an available option. Why aren't any of the enforcers choosing this option, given that Sybil has treated each of them worse than Rin? Why isn't there more of a backlash against Sybil?

The funny thing is I never once found Masaoka unrealistic, and still easily connect to and identify with him as a character. The same is true with most of the other regulars. So go figure.
For Masaoka, it seems more like he's weary than genuinely happy. When he stopped raging, his CC stabilized, but that does not mean he really openly embraced it than say "screw it...I'm too tired, there's just no point"

Enforcers are part of the Bureau. They are most likely scanned more than anyone else. No room for backlash there. And given what we know about the eventual fate of latents and what Kou said when recruiting Yayoi...it may be a survival of the fittest for them. Predator thinking if you will. IE they really have become what Sybil feared they would become thanks to Sybil.
__________________
Cosmic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 10:48   Link #86
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
No doubt. Just pointing out - our society's isn't a utopia where everyone's happy either. Plenty of people are sacrificed, even if it's not in as direct a way as "jailed for life for thoughtcrimes".

For one Kagari unjustly imprisoned, how many people who don't have to worry about getting mugged, or becoming hobos?

Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2013-01-19 at 14:07.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 13:29   Link #87
monir
cho~ kakkoii
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
Joining the conversation a tad late, but jumping right in anyway...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
Unless the director is a complete liar, just putting it out there for people saying Sibyl is 100% "f-ed up":
"Today, the world enjoys a stable properity with the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people."
Of course, one could argue what her definition of happiness is...(And yes, this is despite the shorter life span)
I'm guessing the definition of happiness is left up to the audience. For me, I would call planet earth better when I don't read about war, famine, terrorism, and so many other form of mutual destruction we humans are engaged in. Sibyl System is designed in such a way that it is systematically exterminating people who feel so strongly about something that they can make up their mind to kill other people. The idea behind the crime coefficient is brilliant for one simple reason: it puts constant pressure on the people to sustain and maintain a restrain thought process. There are exceptions like Makishima, but for most people I don't think Sibyl System is that bad. I'm pretty sure this system has eliminated war, and when mutual destruction is on hiatus, the abandoned energy of humanity can be diverted to things like eliminating hunger, eradicating disease, education, culture, scientific advancement etc. From a practical stand point Sibyl System is anything but bad.

And at the same time, it is worth pointing out that the system is accomplishing only one thing in that society: it is forcibly suppressing those urge which lead people to mutual destruction. It hasn't evolved humanity in anyway, but in some came cases a devolution process is taking place, i.e. that homicidal girl's father who used to draw before becoming a vegetable. The incentive is that if one doesn't suppress those urge, one will be terminated. Has anyone yet wondered how many people has been killed so far by the Dominator since the Sibyl System came into place in that society?
__________________
Eat and sleep! And Solace. Sig by RRW.
Space Brothers Executive member of the ASS. Ready to flee at the first sign of trouble.
monir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 14:10   Link #88
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
Joining the conversation a tad late, but jumping right in anyway...


I'm guessing the definition of happiness is left up to the audience. For me, I would call planet earth better when I don't read about war, famine, terrorism, and so many other form of mutual destruction we humans are engaged in. Sibyl System is designed in such a way that it is systematically exterminating people who feel so strongly about something that they can make up their mind to kill other people. The idea behind the crime coefficient is brilliant for one simple reason: it puts constant pressure on the people to sustain and maintain a restrain thought process. There are exceptions like Makishima, but for most people I don't think Sibyl System is that bad. I'm pretty sure this system has eliminated war, and when mutual destruction is on hiatus, the abandoned energy of humanity can be diverted to things like eliminating hunger, eradicating disease, education, culture, scientific advancement etc. From a practical stand point Sibyl System is anything but bad.
Except that if they care too much, they risk being treated as criminals. I mean, it's great for nine-to-fivers. But, while they (we?) keep the society running, are they the ones who progress it? We know unemployment is all but inexistent. But I wonder about scientific progress?
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 14:17   Link #89
garbage
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
^ Ah makes me think about parallels
Spoiler for Comparison SIBYL and Tree of Genesis (Zetsuen no Tempest):


wonder how many have been sacrificed for the SIBYL system to work
__________________
garbage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 14:43   Link #90
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Spoiler for Zetsuen no Tempest:
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 14:58   Link #91
monir
cho~ kakkoii
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Except that if they care too much, they risk being treated as criminals. I mean, it's great for nine-to-fivers. But, while they (we?) keep the society running, are they the ones who progress it? We know unemployment is all but inexistent. But I wonder about scientific progress?
If the technological advancement is the measure stick for any scientific progress, then I think it's more difficult to deny the progress from as much as we've seen from this series. The danger here is, however, that in such society how much humanity can peak may be restrained by the Sibyl System. Scientific progress may have seen its peak if such advancement came under the system, but as we've seen from that dialogue between Ginoza and the boss, there are ways to circumvent the system in certain situation. They have done it in the past, and they are probably doing so actively in the present. I'm pretty sure the evidence was there for the taking when people are coming down with those disease where they lose interest in everything to the point of becoming a vegetable. We still haven't fully understood ourselves to the point where we can clearly say what drives us to do anything. If every human being in the planet was fed, clothed, sheltered, no disease, no war, no worries, and etc... then will we try to invent, or write books, or go to space, or do anything that doesn't require us to do engage into those abstract processes? So if the people that running this system concluded Scientific progress can be maintained under such system, is it possible they would allow for an environment where science can be done unimpeded?

Here is another thought that has crossed my mind.... I wonder what the female boss's reading would have been if a Psycho Pass scan was ran on her? Was her Psycho Pass clouded when she talked about "erasing" the previous one in a million anomaly like Makishima?
__________________
Eat and sleep! And Solace. Sig by RRW.
Space Brothers Executive member of the ASS. Ready to flee at the first sign of trouble.
monir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 15:40   Link #92
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
If the technological advancement is the measure stick for any scientific progress, then I think it's more difficult to deny the progress from as much as we've seen from this series.
We don't know how much of their technological wonders were created after Sibyl was put into action.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 15:42   Link #93
ThereminVox
Guess what time it is?
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Age: 29
I appreciate that Sybil -- while finally acknowledged in-universe by those in the know to be imperfect -- is given a fairly reasonable defense: "Of course it's not perfect. What right could anyone have to expect it to be? It's the best we could do, and it's working almost perfectly as intended."

Considering what Urobuchi's own opinion of such a society-shaping construct would likely be, I think Sybil's been shown in a pretty good light when examined. It comes off as a (usually) reliable measure of "good" versus "evil", as it has been programmed to understand these concepts, and provides feedback based on dispassionate equations. Any authorial condemnation seems to be reserved for how humans have decided to respond to suddenly having access to all of this information at a moment's notice. In this scenario, Sybil itself is neutral and entirely rational, just inflexible.

Yet even so, they continue throwing out these observations that seem to hint at something shady about Sybil in general. This week Ginoza comes right out and says that it seems as though Masaoka's rejection of Sybil lead directly to Sybil rejecting him. It's hard to know how to feel about that.


Boss lady's observation that Sybil's blind spots are why humans are still hired to be detectives makes perfect sense until you remember that Bureau training no longer seems to prepare them for these eventualities. Exhibit A: Akane in episode 11.

It's funny, a few weeks ago I observed that if Sybil were making all the decisions, then they would just arm drones with dominators and disband the police force. The existence of the Bureau is a ray of hope that organized society still values the human element in its own enforcement. It's something of a relief to have it confirmed that this isn't entirely for cosmetic purposes.

Last edited by ThereminVox; 2013-01-19 at 15:57.
ThereminVox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 16:11   Link #94
monir
cho~ kakkoii
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThereminVox View Post
Yet even so, they continue throwing out these observations that seem to hint at something shady about Sybil in general. This week Ginoza comes right out and says that it seems as though Masaoka's rejection of Sybil lead directly to Sybil rejecting him. It's hard to know how to feel about that.

Boss lady's observation that Sybil's blind spots are why humans are still hired to be detectives makes perfect sense until you remember that Bureau training no longer seems to prepare them for these eventualities. Exhibit A: Akane in episode 11.
The entire conversation between the boss and Ginoza was eerie. The guys behind this system are willing to go at any length to make sure the public opinion about this system is never tarnished. I'm starting to think this enforcer group is in danger also from these very people that are maintaining the Sibyl System regardless of Makishima's fate.

Quote:
It's funny, a few weeks ago I observed that if Sybil were making all the decisions, then they would just arm drones with dominators and disband the police force. The existence of the Bureau is a ray of hope that society still values the human element in the enforcement of organized society. It's something of a relief to have it confirmed that this isn't entirely for cosmetic purposes.
I'm hoping that there is more to that statement, hopefully something sinister, that we haven't grasped yet. I also have a feeling Urobuchi won't disappoint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh
We don't know how much of their technological wonders were created after Sibyl was put into action.
Fair point. While the invention of the Sibyl System itself is a great scientific achievement, how much science advanced since then was never answered. As far as we know, all the technological advancement may well have taken place between "before and immediately after" the Sibyl System came into place. What I was trying to point out that, perhaps the people who are running this system allows flexibility with the Sibyl System when it comes to the likes of science. One such example would be the factory worker who avoided a Psycho Pass scan for the longest until he committed those murder in the earlier of the series. The conversation between Ginoza and the female boss also suggest some folks are circumventing the system for the sake of keeping this society intact.
__________________
Eat and sleep! And Solace. Sig by RRW.
Space Brothers Executive member of the ASS. Ready to flee at the first sign of trouble.
monir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 16:17   Link #95
Roger Rambo
Sensei, aishite imasu
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
Makishima's fate.
Fair point. While the invention of the Sibyl System itself is a great scientific achievement, how much science advanced since then was never answered. As far as we know, all the technological advancement may well have taken place between "before and immediately after" the Sibyl System came into place. What I was trying to point out that, perhaps the people who are running this system allows flexibility with the Sibyl System when it comes to the likes of science. One such example would be the factory worker who avoided a Psycho Pass scan for the longest until he committed those murder in the earlier of the series. The conversation between Ginoza and the female boss also suggest some folks are circumventing the system for the sake of keeping this society intact.
Well the Cyborg seemed to think that the field of cybernetics was advancing, to the point where he believed that in the future total brain replacement might be possible.
Roger Rambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 16:26   Link #96
monir
cho~ kakkoii
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Well the Cyborg seemed to think that the field of cybernetics was advancing, to the point where he believed that in the future total brain replacement might be possible.
Yes! Forgot all about that... Thank you!
__________________
Eat and sleep! And Solace. Sig by RRW.
Space Brothers Executive member of the ASS. Ready to flee at the first sign of trouble.
monir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 17:09   Link #97
Mandarake
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
Joining the conversation a tad late, but jumping right in anyway...


I'm guessing the definition of happiness is left up to the audience. For me, I would call planet earth better when I don't read about war, famine, terrorism, and so many other form of mutual destruction we humans are engaged in. Sibyl System is designed in such a way that it is systematically exterminating people who feel so strongly about something that they can make up their mind to kill other people. The idea behind the crime coefficient is brilliant for one simple reason: it puts constant pressure on the people to sustain and maintain a restrain thought process. There are exceptions like Makishima, but for most people I don't think Sibyl System is that bad. I'm pretty sure this system has eliminated war, and when mutual destruction is on hiatus, the abandoned energy of humanity can be diverted to things like eliminating hunger, eradicating disease, education, culture, scientific advancement etc. From a practical stand point Sibyl System is anything but bad.

And at the same time, it is worth pointing out that the system is accomplishing only one thing in that society: it is forcibly suppressing those urge which lead people to mutual destruction. It hasn't evolved humanity in anyway, but in some came cases a devolution process is taking place, i.e. that homicidal girl's father who used to draw before becoming a vegetable. The incentive is that if one doesn't suppress those urge, one will be terminated. Has anyone yet wondered how many people has been killed so far by the Dominator since the Sibyl System came into place in that society?
Ah, finally thank heavens, a kindred soul. And you too Thereminvox. I'm happy to see that others appreciate that the issues raised by Sybil are not as cut-and-dried and simple-minded as some would have it, and that Urobuchi has crafted for us a finely balanced conundrum, which makes for a more complex, adult and ultimately more rewarding work.

Yes, core aspects of Sybil are bad. Duh. But if your analysis stops there you'll miss out on a substantial portion of what the story has to offer. It's unrealistic to assume that the people in the Psychopass universe are all not as smart as we are and only abide by Sybil because they have yet to figure out what we geniuses have known all along: certain aspects of Sybil are bad. Come on guys. It's not like you just uncovered an easter egg. Anybody with half a brain will detect the gnarly portion of Sybil from miles away. Trust that the people in the Psychopass universe saw Sybil's flaws too but decided to go with it anyway because they found enough of an upside to it to compensate for its admittedly substantial dangers. You may not like the choice they made. But don't be so smug in assuming they only did it because they were dumb.

My last point on this thread: I'm sure nobody here is a fan of Sybil, and for those who still don't get it, nobody here is advocating anything like Sybil in the real world. But the system we have right now is not perfect either, and the the point of the exercise is to open minds and expand our discussion even into areas that we find distasteful and uncomfortable in the hope that this may lead to more creative solutions to real problems. Or a least, that's what I think.
Mandarake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 20:34   Link #98
ChainLegacy
廉頗
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts, US
Age: 25
As we saw in an earlier episode when Akane was surprised of someone being unemployed in the time period they live in, there are obviously 'advantages' to the Cybil System. Like many fictional dystopias, Cybil-world is in many ways a utopia with a fatal flaw. The level of organization of their society (the efficiency + employment), and the careful management of everyone's psychological state to avoid stress, are things many people would pine for today. The problem is that they have sacrificed what we consider to be some fundamental aspects of the human experience in doing so through the 'soulless' and rigid system. In a minor sense, this may lead to less life fulfillment and a totally guided life experience that seems inherently undesirable to those influenced by modern Western ideas. In a more extreme sense, it leads to the imprisonment of 'potential' threats and the outright annihilation of those deemed unfit even for attempts at rehabilitation. The structure is rigid and cold in a frighteningly inhuman way, detracting, at an emotional and primal level, from the many advantages presented by their society.

Anyways, it had crossed my mind that Masaoka would be Ginoza's father, but I shook it off because their interactions never seemed to hint at such a relationship. I guess the parental bond has just cooled to such a degree that they don't even consider that connection in their day to day interaction. I certainly like the old school detective ethic of Masaoka more (he may be my favorite character), but I see Ginoza as a sympathetic figure with some misguided beliefs largely based on fear.
ChainLegacy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 20:48   Link #99
orion
Waiting for more taiyuki!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoyTitan View Post
<snip>
Also I will use myself as a personal example I have been training in boxing as a kid an love mix martial arts there is nthn I enjoy more than mma, Now if hunting and most music is banned its pretty safe to assume combat sports are banned so what would happen to some one like me who loves them in sucha society, Or people like you who enjoy a show such as psycho pass, A show were if some one who enjoys Shakespeare is either drugged to a vegetative state to avoid imprisonment or hideing there hue what do you think enjoying a show like psyho pass would mean for are hue. All of us would most likely be criminals on the run,drugged up to keep a clear hue since we are contantly exposed to forms of media banned in that society that does not fit its way of thinking or in a small padded white cell for life with out human contact for the majority, now do you think sybil is a non evil and has any chance of being better than the albeit corrupt government we use.
You can have yoga and swimming as hobbies and develop a love for all the genres of music used in Yoga class.

You can always find something else to do as a hobby.
__________________
orion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 23:07   Link #100
GDiddy
Sisterhood of the Desu
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: in a van by the river
Great episode as always. And certainly full of surprises:

Holy cow...totally did not see the Old Guy as Gino's dad. That came as a total shocker to me.

Shogo is an anomaly and it's not the first time this has happened; I get the feeling that Shogo's going to pull an Aizen and troll the living shit out of everyone before this is overwith.

I was glad to see that Akane was dealing with things all right...though I still get the feeling that something isn't right with her. And it's going to be her relationship with Ko that factors into it.

The Sibyl System is starting to remind me of 1984...
GDiddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.