AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga & Light Novels

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-01-15, 16:45   Link #981
Krono
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
From the way it's made out to be, Titus is essentially an extension of her
That's what she thinks of him as. The problem being that he's demonstrated a will of his own, to the point where he's basically opting to go against her. By most people's definitions, that would make him more than a mere extension of her. It would make him his own person.

So to our current knowledge, Scher sees Titus as nothing more than a construct. A golem. A short-lived clone of herself that she can manipulate remotely. The principal sees Titus as a human being. A person with his own fears and desires.

And Scher has made Titus's attempts to exercise his own will into a pretext for starting a war. So it's not surprising that Titus would side with the magicians, even though he may have misgivings and disagreements over the treatment of the non-magicians.
Krono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 18:20   Link #982
marvelB
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krono View Post
Well, that and the old guy pretty genuinely cares about magicians, and wants them to live long, happy lives, and sees Titus as a person.


....Which is ironic when you remember that he literally treats any non-magician as livestock.



That being said, I wouldn't say that lolimagi is completely in the right, either (her empire is technically one that still practices slavery, is it not?), but I would say that her cause is more just when compared to Dumblemort's. I mean, at least her country offers equal opportunities, slavery or not.....
marvelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 18:54   Link #983
Cosmic Eagle
卍曼荼羅・無量大数
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 大欲界天狗道
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krono View Post
That's what she thinks of him as. The problem being that he's demonstrated a will of his own, to the point where he's basically opting to go against her. By most people's definitions, that would make him more than a mere extension of her. It would make him his own person.

So to our current knowledge, Scher sees Titus as nothing more than a construct. A golem. A short-lived clone of herself that she can manipulate remotely. The principal sees Titus as a human being. A person with his own fears and desires.

And Scher has made Titus's attempts to exercise his own will into a pretext for starting a war. So it's not surprising that Titus would side with the magicians, even though he may have misgivings and disagreements over the treatment of the non-magicians.
She made him out of her own life-force so it's warranted or at least understandable to a certain extent. Whether it's right or not still can't tell since Titus has been not appearing lately.

Either way, she and Laem are far more preferable than the mage side. After all, the entire thing can be said to have started when Dumbodork started freely exporting magic items and weaponry to criminals and the like in the area, causing more instability.
__________________
Cosmic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 19:17   Link #984
Starshipw
Free Opinions Available
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Vacationing in the southern isles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
From the way it's made out to be, Titus is essentially an extension of her
I don't know what Titus is. Do we consider Naruto evil because he sends scores of shadow clones out to be slaughtered? If he gave enough chakra/rukh to a clone so that it lasted a week/month/year would it be human with all its rights, dreams and aspirations? Could it sue for support? I know the goi are human, but what about Titus?
Starshipw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 19:51   Link #985
Tempest35
Awe of She
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando
If Titus didn't have free will, then we probably wouldn't have cared as much...but he does. He's aware of himself and even changed his actions from how he was ordered to act because of his feelings. That indicates that he's not only a sentient being, but one that is fully aware of 'himself' as an individual and has personal desires and a free will.

Titus was created to be treated as a human (a sorcerer, at that) and with that, goes all entitlements thereof. This is why his plight was pitiful since he was created as a separate entity of his master/creator for something like this. He was created with enough of his own will and self-awareness that he could think and process things as a sentient being would. It's morally wrong, but legally, the sorcerers are stealing her 'property' so... *shrugs* Doesn't mean that she doesn't deserve a firm 'B-slap' for creating something like that and then not caring about it once it developed a will on it's own, separate from what it was intended for or outside the scope of it's intended use - that's why it's called FREE WILL.

Morally, she's in the dirt because of that and it's also why Dumbledore got cool points with us becuase of it.

Still, like reality, virutally all humans, no matter how upstanding and right they are, have something about them or something that they do that's pretty low and sometimes shameful.
__________________
"Focus entirely on me, you ordinary soldier."
Tempest35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 19:57   Link #986
Cosmic Eagle
卍曼荼羅・無量大数
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 大欲界天狗道
I did not say what she did regarding Titus was right but it's like people are saying that Dumbodork is now somehow better than her because of it? Despite being what....someone who uses humans as batteries, goes on whole sale slaughtering once he's in power, makes society docile to the point of pathetic weakness, spreads magic items into the hands of criminal groups, works with Al Sarmen etc

Show me where lolimagi did not screw over the lives of so many others to the extent Dumbodork did



Dumbodork cares genuinely for his own kind......and that's it
__________________
Cosmic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 22:12   Link #987
hawkeyesvn
The old ace of Arlington
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post

Show me where lolimagi did not screw over the lives of so many others to the extent Dumbodork did



Dumbodork cares genuinely for his own kind......and that's it
Except for Titus, we haven't seen Scher mistreat other people or discriminate anyone. Her ideal seems to be concentrate on "Everybody have a chance to stand by their own legs and they should do it. ( Or I will beat you up and force you to do it )". The bad thing about Scher is she seems to be the same as Mogamett when it comes to forcing her idea on other people. She doesn't give people choice at all: If you're not with me then you're against me.

This war is not just for her country, it could also be a clash of ideals, and we all know from our history that kind of conflict are very hard to decide who's right or wrong.
__________________
hawkeyesvn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-15, 23:20   Link #988
ykf566
Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
I don't believe Titus has ever expressed his wishes to lolimagi, we don't know how she feels about them.

Given her trust in Titus, i think its safe to assume that all others she created had no problems with their situation, and so to her she might feel its completely normal and natural that his role ends.
ykf566 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-16, 00:12   Link #989
ellifeedn
Thinker
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New York
You guys think Sindria will join the war?
ellifeedn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-16, 00:22   Link #990
hawkeyesvn
The old ace of Arlington
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellifeedn View Post
You guys think Sindria will join the war?
That's too far for Sindria to join now. Unless Sindbad had made a off-screen march over the past few chapters, it make no sense for Sindria's force to show up in this war.

Beside, Sinsbad is not the type of King that will mobilize his force without a good reason. Sindria is part of Seven Seas Alliance, itself alone won't be enough to tackle Reim and I don't think other nation's leaders would want to fight with Reim just because Sindbad said so.
__________________
hawkeyesvn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-16, 01:51   Link #991
Seitsuki
Onee!
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Auckland, NZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
I did not say what she did regarding Titus was right but it's like people are saying that Dumbodork is now somehow better than her because of it? Despite being what....someone who uses humans as batteries, goes on whole sale slaughtering once he's in power, makes society docile to the point of pathetic weakness, spreads magic items into the hands of criminal groups, works with Al Sarmen etc

Show me where lolimagi did not screw over the lives of so many others to the extent Dumbodork did



Dumbodork cares genuinely for his own kind......and that's it

Yes, because non magicians have been treating his 'kind' with soo much love and care right?

Besides according to Scher, humans can push forth and advance on their own. Where does that leave magicians? Not needed again. Or only useful for their abilities to make rain and whatnot. If so fine, leave them the #$%# alone! But no, war. Both sides are pretty screwed up in the end.
__________________
thanks to Patchy ♥
Seitsuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-16, 01:57   Link #992
Xacual
The color of a Hero
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seitsuki View Post
Yes, because non magicians have been treating his 'kind' with soo much love and care right?

Besides according to Scher, humans can push forth and advance on their own. Where does that leave magicians? Not needed again. Or only useful for their abilities to make rain and whatnot. If so fine, leave them the #$%# alone! But no, war. Both sides are pretty screwed up in the end.
If they wanted to be left alone they shouldn't have been supplying malcontents of other nations with magic tools. That's what got Titus and Schezerade involved in this in the first place.
__________________
Xacual is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-16, 02:17   Link #993
Seitsuki
Onee!
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Auckland, NZ
Why do they need those things in the first place? Because they knew the other countries would come knocking sooner or later. The 'need for power' as they put it. Comes round in a circle more or less.
__________________
thanks to Patchy ♥
Seitsuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-16, 02:46   Link #994
RRW
Unspecified
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Unspecified
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seitsuki View Post
Why do they need those things in the first place? Because they knew the other countries would come knocking sooner or later. The 'need for power' as they put it. Comes round in a circle more or less.
it just spying really
__________________
RRW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-16, 03:42   Link #995
Cosmic Eagle
卍曼荼羅・無量大数
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 大欲界天狗道
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seitsuki View Post
Yes, because non magicians have been treating his 'kind' with soo much love and care right?

Besides according to Scher, humans can push forth and advance on their own. Where does that leave magicians? Not needed again. Or only useful for their abilities to make rain and whatnot. If so fine, leave them the #$%# alone! But no, war. Both sides are pretty screwed up in the end.
Are the Metal Users in Rhem discriminated against? There is nothing shown yet about the way mages are treated in Rhem. Assumption that what happens elsewhere happens in Rhem is flawed as well


So now if mages are not needed on a massive scale it auto means that they are given the worst kinds of treatment? Or would you rather have them relied so much upon, common humans end up wasting away?
__________________
Cosmic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-16, 04:10   Link #996
Arkeus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krono View Post
Well, that and the old guy pretty genuinely cares about magicians, and wants them to live long, happy lives, and sees Titus as a person. Scher on the other hand basically seems to see Titus as her possession, and expects him to do his job and perish on schedule like those before him have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
From the way it's made out to be, Titus is essentially an extension of her
Pretty much this- Titus dying means he 'comes back' to being a part of her. It's more like a Kag Bunshin dying than anything else, the problem is that for some reasons he was built without most of her knowledge (probably infiltration purposes) so it makes it harder for him to accept this.
Arkeus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-17, 14:23   Link #997
Krono
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ykf566 View Post
I don't believe Titus has ever expressed his wishes to lolimagi, we don't know how she feels about them.

Given her trust in Titus, i think its safe to assume that all others she created had no problems with their situation, and so to her she might feel its completely normal and natural that his role ends.
I don't think Titus has expressed his wishes, but it's not like she asked him either. More particularly, she possessed him because she felt something wrong with his Rukh. Her first action after doing so was to slap away the hand of the principal who was busy asking Titus if he was alright. Then some explanation of what she'd just done, then on to her demands for the principal. No questions from her about what was wrong with Titus or his health despite that being the reason she'd come there. Then after he rejected her demands, she demanded that he return Titus to her. She didn't order Titus to return home, didn't ask the principal to tell Titus that his mission was over and that he was being recalled, she demanded that Titus be returned like he was an object of hers in the principal's possession. Then the principal refused citing that young magicians crushed by sadness are the ones he seeks to protect and he will not abandon Titus.

None of that really speaks of it remotely occurring to her to think of Titus as his own person, or think anything about what Titus wants or how he feels. Or gives any indication that she'd care if she knew seeing as she immediately used it as a pretext for declaring war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
Pretty much this- Titus dying means he 'comes back' to being a part of her. It's more like a Kag Bunshin dying than anything else, the problem is that for some reasons he was built without most of her knowledge (probably infiltration purposes) so it makes it harder for him to accept this.
The thing is, Kagebushin is a pretty bad comparison for Titus's situation. A kagebushin is an exact duplicate of it's original, same looks, knowledge, personality, goals, etc. Titus is a construct. A different gender from his creator, knows only things he was taught, his own personality, own goals, etc. He's much more like a golem or a homunculus. By all the talk about how he should rest on his home soil, I doubt he's going to somehow fuse with Scher. He's basically a spell she cast that's about to run out of power.
Krono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 04:13   Link #998
konart
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Moscow, RU
Age: 26
Send a message via Skype™ to konart
Spoiler for 170:
__________________
Signature removed. Please check the forum signature rules before trying to upload another one. If you have questions, feel free to contact a mod through PM.
konart is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 08:53   Link #999
shalala
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Under the 7 seas
Quote:
Originally Posted by konart View Post
Spoiler for 170:
Sooo what do they do? If you know.
shalala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-19, 09:58   Link #1000
aohige
( ಠ_ಠ)
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
They're about to blow up the uber-duper-magicky-cannon Moga is gloating about.
__________________
aohige is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fantasy, licensed, manga, shounen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.