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Old 2013-01-16, 21:34   Link #881
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I'd be curious to know whether sales of the novel have seen a boost since the anime began. There's also a spinoff manga.
Yes, with this sort of work, I'd tend to think the novel stands the most to gain (and I was including that in "merchandise"); I too am curious about this.

In general terms, I have to say that this strikes me as the type of show that would have been quite popular in North America back when anime was the big thing (and that have never really sold all that well in Japan on disc), so I wonder if it'll do well for Sentai these days. I guess we'll see...
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Old 2013-01-16, 21:38   Link #882
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No robotic;notes , Magi and Sakurasou?
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Old 2013-01-16, 21:41   Link #883
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
No robotic;notes , Magi and Sakurasou?
None of these have been released yet; all are coming later this month.
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Old 2013-01-16, 21:42   Link #884
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
None of these have been released yet; all are coming later this month.
Ah okay thanks
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Old 2013-01-16, 22:08   Link #885
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Yes, with this sort of work, I'd tend to think the novel stands the most to gain (and I was including that in "merchandise"); I too am curious about this.
See my updated post above. It doesn't look like there was much of a boost in light novel sales.
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Old 2013-01-18, 07:41   Link #886
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I am not surprised, however, I am dismayed. Like extra features to entice people into buying something is nice, but anime is not just a collectible item in Japan. It's a way of paying support to the creators in a tangible manner, which just says "please make more of this stuff." Sure A-1 probably could have hassled to put in more effort by improving the animation in scenes or giving nice extras, but I presume they thought it was not even worth the effort since it just never was going to sell. That's what depresses me here, that something so creative and imaginative... Something so great cannot achieve success because it is not a 2chan fad of some sort.
How did 2chan prevent those who were interested in it and liked it from buying it?
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Old 2013-01-19, 18:16   Link #887
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I don't think it's "because" it's not a fad. I think the collector's market on the whole just has different tastes than you do in this case. I think that is also something that I can easily say is common to everyone I know who collects -- sometimes your tastes align with majority, but other times they don't. I've bought my share of shows that never ranked, and pretty much everyone I know who is in any way serious has had the same experience. The market is just formed of tens of thousands of individual purchasers who have to make individual purchasing decisions about what (generally few) shows they want to have on their shelves. This show apparently wasn't chosen by many. But as was said, maybe other merchandise is benefiting. Or maybe it'll just have a really, really long tail. Who knows...
I think the fact that otaku consumers (People who somehow can shell out that kind of money for anime) have different tastes is obvious and I am not confused about this. I am simply lamenting the current state of an industry that has become so insular that only these kinds of people are going to determine what gets made. I can hardly think of another entertainment industry which has chosen to become more insular instead of trying to appeal more to the general population.
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Old 2013-01-19, 18:27   Link #888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I think the fact that otaku consumers (People who somehow can shell out that kind of money for anime) have different tastes is obvious and I am not confused about this. I am simply lamenting the current state of an industry that has become so insular that only these kinds of people are going to determine what gets made. I can hardly think of another entertainment industry which has chosen to become more insular instead of trying to appeal more to the general population.
Music? Wrestling? FPS gaming? Drama/sitcom/reality TV? Manga?

Your point is valid. But it's not like anime is the only industry that is guilty of same old, same old and being enabled to do so by those paying.
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Old 2013-01-20, 04:34   Link #889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I think the fact that otaku consumers (People who somehow can shell out that kind of money for anime) have different tastes is obvious and I am not confused about this. I am simply lamenting the current state of an industry that has become so insular that only these kinds of people are going to determine what gets made. I can hardly think of another entertainment industry which has chosen to become more insular instead of trying to appeal more to the general population.
This has been discussed in many threads before. "These kinds of people" (they're not a single solitary block with one united voice by any means) are going to determine what gets made for late-night TV just like late-night infomercial producers buy airtime for products they think can sell to people who are still up and watching at those hours. The shows that try to "appeal more to the general population" are not generally going to air at those sorts of ungodly hours in the first place. And the shows that get "mainstream viewership" in Japan are not the sort you're thinking of; you probably won't like many of them.

And honestly... I'm also not sure that a show that deals with so many complex sexual issues featuring characters at those ages is going to be a mainstream hit in many cultures, even if you think it's "creative", "imaginative", and "great". I think it's actually in a niche of its own (a niche you may perhaps find more appealing and "socially acceptable" based on your own criteria). I think that they made a show like this in the first place is testament to the industry still being willing to try things to reach out to different parts of the niche market (and in fact, there have been a good number of anime released in the last year that I feel would qualify for that statement).
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Old 2013-01-20, 04:52   Link #890
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
This has been discussed in many threads before. "These kinds of people" (they're not a single solitary block with one united voice by any means) are going to determine what gets made for late-night TV just like late-night infomercial producers buy airtime for products they think can sell to people who are still up and watching at those hours. The shows that try to "appeal more to the general population" are not generally going to air at those sorts of ungodly hours in the first place. And the shows that get "mainstream viewership" in Japan are not the sort you're thinking of; you probably won't like many of them.
I was referring to the people who can financially afford to spend hundreds of dollars for a single anime. This is not a sleight against them as people, I am lamenting the industry for choosing to only appeal to this specific group as a business model. Here and there stuff like Moribito and SSY are still made, but I have to wonder if eventually their lack of financial success in this economic environment is going to make them virtually extinct (If they aren't close to it already).

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
And honestly... I'm also not sure that a show that deals with so many complex sexual issues featuring characters at those ages is going to be a mainstream hit in many cultures, even if you think it's "creative", "imaginative", and "great". I think it's actually in a niche of its own (a niche you may perhaps find more appealing and "socially acceptable" based on your own criteria). I think that they made a show like this in the first place is testament to the industry still being willing to try things to reach out to different parts of the niche market (and in fact, there have been a good number of anime released in the last year that I feel would qualify for that statement).
This isn't even about being main stream really. Main stream is stuff like your day time shounen shows or something like Detective Conan. I am not saying that more of these kinds of anime need to be made, they already exist. However, anime is becoming more insular under this economic model in my perception.
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Old 2013-01-20, 05:06   Link #891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I was referring to the people who can financially afford to spend hundreds of dollars for a single anime. This is not a sleight against them as people, I am lamenting the industry for choosing to only appeal to this specific group as a business model. Here and there stuff like Moribito and SSY are still made, but I have to wonder if eventually their lack of financial success in this economic environment is going to make them virtually extinct (If they aren't close to it already).
Well, choosing to cater to the people who will give you money doesn't seem so silly to me.

I mean, isn't the problem the other way around: why won't people who like shows like Moribito and SSY buy things? If the market really is there, what are they willing to buy if Blu-Rays (etc.) aren't the thing? As was pointed out, there didn't seem to be a rush to buy the books either, and those aren't so expensive. So if there's a real market, where are they and what are they doing?

I do think it may be interesting to see how the show does in North America. Some times the tastes of the markets are sufficiently different in that sense.
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Old 2013-01-20, 05:15   Link #892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I was referring to the people who can financially afford to spend hundreds of dollars for a single anime. This is not a sleight against them as people, I am lamenting the industry for choosing to only appeal to this specific group as a business model. Here and there stuff like Moribito and SSY are still made, but I have to wonder if eventually their lack of financial success in this economic environment is going to make them virtually extinct (If they aren't close to it already).



This isn't even about being main stream really. Main stream is stuff like your day time shounen shows or something like Detective Conan. I am not saying that more of these kinds of anime need to be made, they already exist. However, anime is becoming more insular under this economic model in my perception.
The companies just do what makes them the most money. Since selling at high prices gets their bills paid the quickest, that's what they'll do. The consumers are people with full time jobs and no dependants, or people who live with their parents, leaving them with thousands in spending money if they live within their means in other aspects of life.

So companies appeal to the rather few who fit all of the above: like cartoons and have huge amounts of pocket money. Since they tend to be young males, we get lots of seinen shows with promiscuty.
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Old 2013-01-20, 05:49   Link #893
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The contents in question are being made because producers bet on these people to bring in stable profits. They don't have a united voice, but they do constitute an audience that forms and follows trends. Its members are fleeting and its "membership" has got more to do with their age and social standing. This is not surprising that children, teenagers and manchildren are frequently associated with anime. The fact that this group has now moved away from anime, more towards idol and "social" fandom is discomforting knowledge because it will bring even futher change to the medium. All these idol anime are just the tip of the iceberg, but this will manifest in other ways because anime will try to accomodate for new trends whilst trying to keep its identity.

I'm disappointed mainly because I can't wholeheartedly support anything that's come out recently. Anime just isn't that great at the moment!
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Old 2013-01-20, 06:02   Link #894
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There was a studio that mainly made titles in the interest of quality and critical acclaim - Madhouse. And while I like their works for the greater part, the problem was they rarely sold well. And look what happened to them.

This isn't an idealistic industry. It's a pragmatic one. As are most in life.

And I think sometimes people forget a good deal of those controlling what gets made are proud of the fact. It gives them some form of fulfillment. Remember anime is somewhat full of a 'one of us' mentality. Don't you think they get a real kick that people like you, Reckoner, are getting frustrated by the way things are?

I don't necessarily like the way things are going overall. But hey, each to their own. People get what they deserve and if the day comes they regret it, so be it.
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Old 2013-01-20, 07:02   Link #895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
There was a studio that mainly made titles in the interest of quality and critical acclaim - Madhouse. And while I like their works for the greater part, the problem was they rarely sold well. And look what happened to them.
They're alive and producing 2 of my favorite animes airing right now,chihayafuru and hunterXhunter

Ok that was just to tease you,I get what you mean.

Former madhouse president and MAPPA founder Maruyama Masao is still fighting the good fight though.

relentlessflame asks where is the market and well the frustrating thing is that sometimes even if the source material is popular there's no anime market for it because just because someone is into manga doesn't mean they're into anime.

Which brings me back to Maruyama Masao and MAPPA, he's trying to get a Pluto adaptation off the ground,Pluto is a manga by Naoki Urasawa that has topped weekly sales charts and won awards and yet MAPPA can't find investors because people don't believe that the anime would sell despite the manga's popularity because while it tops manga sales charts the people who buy the manga aren't the same audience as those who buy anime.Same scenario with Urasawa's latest manga Billy Bat.

Or take Biblia Koshodou no Jiken Techou , it's a very popular light novel , here are the sales of the 3 light novels:
vol1: 1,080,967
vol2: 757,933
vol3: 635,839

That's more than any Sword Art Online volume and yet it got a live action adaptation (airing right now on primetime on Fuji TV) but no anime adaptation yet.
The cynical side of me believes that's because the female lead is a woman instead of a cute highschool girl and that going by the various illustrations there's nothing close to fanservice so producers think the anime wouldn't sell and therefore went live action instead,I'd love to be proven wrong.
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Old 2013-01-20, 07:08   Link #896
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
The cynical side of me believes that's because the female lead is a woman instead of a cute highschool girl and that going by the various illustrations there's nothing close to fanservice so producers think the anime wouldn't sell and therefore went live action instead,I'd love to be proven wrong.

After talking to some people who have read it, the general consensus is that it would be better of as a live action. It's a detective mystery story that runs pretty much like [Galileo] if you have watched/read it. There's a lot of exposition talking and not enough flashy scenes for an Anime.

btw, the number of sales for each volume is closer to 1,000,000 average. Total sale for just three volumes at last count was 3 800 000.
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Old 2013-01-20, 07:15   Link #897
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And I think sometimes people forget a good deal of those controlling what gets made are proud of the fact. It gives them some form of fulfillment. Remember anime is somewhat full of a 'one of us' mentality. Don't you think they get a real kick that people like you, Reckoner, are getting frustrated by the way things are?
Are you referring to the paying customers as those "controlling what gets made"? Maybe I'm being naive, but I tend to think that the vast majority of these buy out of self-interest first and foremost -- they buy because they consider the show worth collecting. I do think collectors tend to be proud of their collections (and why not, at those prices), and they're obviously driven by a sort of self-interest to see more shows they like, but I think framing it as being "proud of controlling what gets made" is a bit sinister and petty. Granted, there can be this sort of "pettiness" on certain message boards (that's part of the local culture), but I haven't met many real collectors who take active joy in seeing other people frustrated, though they won't necessarily be repentant about what they like either.

There is a certain identity that can come with being part of the latest trends/fads... but the widely varying sales even among shows that are supposedly "popular" suggests to me that, when it comes time to put down real money, people aren't really as driven by the "herd mentality" as it sometimes seems on Forums.


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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Or take Biblia Koshodou no Jiken Techou , it's a very popular light novel , here are the sales of the 3 light novels:
vol1: 1,080,967
vol2: 757,933
vol3: 635,839

That's more than any Sword Art Online volume and yet it got a live action adaptation (airing right now on primetime on Fuji TV) but no anime adaptation yet.
The cynical side of me believes that's because the female lead is a woman instead of a cute highschool girl and that going by the various illustrations there's nothing close to fanservice so producers think the anime wouldn't sell and therefore went live action instead,I'd love to be proven wrong.
Honestly, if a show is popular enough to warrant a live-action adaptation (and the content suits that sort of material), I honestly don't see why they'd choose anime as a medium. Live Action is still much more accessible to a mainstream audience than anime will ever be. That isn't because of the "content of your average anime", but simply because people are more used to relating to stories with real actors. Even some anime directors would argue that you should use anime to do things that can't be done in real life. The goal of the entertainment industry, after all, is to pick the medium that best supports the style and goals of the project (and will most effectively reach the target audience).
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Old 2013-01-20, 07:15   Link #898
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Liar Game was a very financially successful live action. It didn't get animated and was probably the right choice - the manga reaching peak popularity around the time the moe boom kicked in meant an anime just wouldn't have worked. Kaiji's live action has been a success but its anime seasons are merely advertisments in the end.

I'd call that realistic rather than cynical. There only are certain types of shows and qualities that sell. But consider anime's painful costs in Japan, perhaps the LN and live-action are far better choices anyway?

Urusawa is a genius. But, you know, I can't even find sales figures for Monster and the English license was culled about 1/5 through. However its sales on manga globally and the anime being played on cable in a good number of countries in Europe and being a success there means there is a market. But really, the amount of freedoms to create something in manga and be successful are somewhat better than those for anime.

Meh, so be it. I'll buy what I like, watch what I like and read what I like, regardless of sales. Popularity can be a curse as much as it is a blessing.
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Old 2013-01-20, 08:20   Link #899
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Or take Biblia Koshodou no Jiken Techou , it's a very popular light novel , here are the sales of the 3 light novels:
vol1: 1,080,967
vol2: 757,933
vol3: 635,839

That's more than any Sword Art Online volume and yet it got a live action adaptation (airing right now on primetime on Fuji TV) but no anime adaptation yet.
The cynical side of me believes that's because the female lead is a woman instead of a cute highschool girl and that going by the various illustrations there's nothing close to fanservice so producers think the anime wouldn't sell and therefore went live action instead,I'd love to be proven wrong.
Live Action adaptations and generally reserved for more popular properties... I mean stuff like Death Note, NANA, Honey and Clover, Moshidora and Nodame Cantabile received live action versions. Shingeki no Kyojin which is getting an anime in Spring 2013 already has a live action movie in production for release in Fall 2013. If anything the anime is to help promote that since the movie was announced in 2011.

Also Biblia is a closed room mystery, not exactly something that sells well in anime, but the fanbase not being typical anime fans as well as being so large made it an easy choose for a live action.

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Honestly, if a show is popular enough to warrant a live-action adaptation (and the content suits that sort of material), I honestly don't see why they'd choose anime as a medium. Live Action is still much more accessible to a mainstream audience than anime will ever be. That isn't because of the "content of your average anime", but simply because people are more used to relating to stories with real actors. Even some anime directors would argue that you should use anime to do things that can't be done in real life. The goal of the entertainment industry, after all, is to pick the medium that best supports the style and goals of the project (and will most effectively reach the target audience).
That's pretty much the approach "Kodansha's" Weekly Shounen Magazine (the #2 manga magazine behind Jump) has been taking lately. Shows that are more suited for an anime have been getting them like Seitokai Yakuindomo and CDE:BREAKER. Whereas others have been getting jdramas like Yankee-kun and I think one of their baseball mangas. The average reader for Magazine is also at a much higher age then Jumps even though they're both in the Shounen demographic.
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Old 2013-01-20, 10:23   Link #900
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It's a shame though because a lot of the series that would be made into live action adaptions I would rather see as anime.

I mean at times I enjoy the live action adaption just as much as the anime (Nodame Cantabile) but usually I just prefer the anime (Honey & Clover)

I just wonder why the audience that will read manga is not into watching anime. I guess I don't understand the disconnect between them.

I love manga I do but I just feel its easier for me to initially get interested in a property through the anime.
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