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Old 2013-01-20, 14:34   Link #241
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
I can see Taichi's mom as sympahthic in a sense. I am sure she does want the best for Taichi, she just probably doesn't realize what she thinks is the best is quite the opposite.
I'm not quite sure I get her either. I mean, yes, she wants Taichi to live up to his full potential, I get that. But she also pretty much leaves him to do what he wants as long as his grades don't suffer. Including financial freedom Nishida can only dream of.
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Old 2013-01-20, 16:55   Link #242
ujiuji
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To me the most revealing scene in this episode about Sumire was when she realises she has nothing much to say to her new first-year friends. She wonders if this is how it is when you are not in a club and resolves to put more effort into getting a boyfriend. It shows she is aware of a feeling of shallowness, emptiness, that needs filling. Now her train of thought seems like it should end with "find a club that interests me and provides the social / intellectual / emotional stimulation that I'm lacking". Instead it ends with "boyfriend". Well it would give her something to talk / boast about to her friends I suppose, but I suspect she needs more than that to fill the emptiness, even if she doesn't know it yet. It would explain something that I've found odd; that she seems quite serious about Taichi although she actually knows next to nothing about him. She's been accused of shallowness for this, but it might be fairer to say she's confused. She does have depth of feeling but the only outlet she is currently aware of for such feelings is "boyfriend". Maybe she read too many of those shoujo manga whose heroines she identifies with? So she's setting her sights on Taichi although, knowing this series, it will become increasingly obvious that the hole in her life is karuta-shaped.
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Old 2013-01-20, 18:07   Link #243
Arya
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Well the anime hasn't done a good job of showing this. Instead it displays Chitose as vain and self centered.
I think that Chihaya' sister, as much as their parents, was meant to outline the outside world, "our" world, more than anything else. I mean, to me Chihaya and Chitose have very similar paths. Both are "skilled" in their own field/world, Chihaya is not the queen, yet, as much as her sister is not a top model/whatever, yet, but both have good chances. But Chitose has always been acknowledged and supported by their parents, instead Chihaya hasn't ever been. Chihaya's family role was intended as worldbuilding. As much as Taichi mother. For that reason they didn't need development. They showed us how unnoticed karuta world is, how far from the society that world is. They showed us which are the standard values of our society. But they are not bad persons. Ultimately they are not ignoring their kin, they are ignoring Karuta. So karuta ignores them! The rule is simple, they need to accept Karuta to become a character.

That makes me think that, on that matter of classes, the author is not trying to criticize some particular social class, if I had to say, she is criticizing our society as a whole, where every main character is a victim. Even Taichi, especially Taichi, the one who was once a liar and a thief, was on the verge to become a bully and later even a womanizer.
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Last edited by Arya; 2013-01-20 at 18:28.
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Old 2013-01-20, 18:59   Link #244
hyperborealis
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Originally Posted by ujiuji View Post
To me the most revealing scene in this episode about Sumire was when she realises she has nothing much to say to her new first-year friends. She wonders if this is how it is when you are not in a club and resolves to put more effort into getting a boyfriend. It shows she is aware of a feeling of shallowness, emptiness, that needs filling. Now her train of thought seems like it should end with "find a club that interests me and provides the social / intellectual / emotional stimulation that I'm lacking". Instead it ends with "boyfriend". Well it would give her something to talk / boast about to her friends I suppose, but I suspect she needs more than that to fill the emptiness, even if she doesn't know it yet. It would explain something that I've found odd; that she seems quite serious about Taichi although she actually knows next to nothing about him. She's been accused of shallowness for this, but it might be fairer to say she's confused. She does have depth of feeling but the only outlet she is currently aware of for such feelings is "boyfriend". Maybe she read too many of those shoujo manga whose heroines she identifies with? So she's setting her sights on Taichi although, knowing this series, it will become increasingly obvious that the hole in her life is karuta-shaped.
Yes! That curious fugue-like moment, where her friends begin to white out, and Sumire reaches a nadir--she is all alone, with people who themselves are all alone. Of course this brush with the void happens in a McDonalds... Then, out of nowhere, she recites the opening line to her poem. It has touched her heart: it is what is there when everything else is gone.

Not just the poetry: she also remembers Harada and Taichi's words to her. These remind her of a life of dedication and purpose, an essential seriousness, which she lacks, and knows she lacks, but does not fully understand.

I think the point of her telling herself she needs to give up seeking the hottest guy in the school, and just get a boyfriend, and then, of having her angrily reject the speciousness of the former boyfriend's proposal to get back together, is to let us viewers know that the boyfriend motive from the previous episode, in general and as applied to Taichi, has exploded. Only, she has not yet worked out it's replacement. That's why she does go back to the club, but participates there with indifference and nonchalance.

It's only after Sumire's conversation with Kana-chan that she finally gets it. And I don't think the getting is of karuta. She accepts karuta as a necessary discipline, following Kana's words about the formal character of the poems, but that is not her main focus. I think she is motivated by an ideal of love, as it is expressed in the poems. Quadratic's point that Sumire wishes to experience what the poems have been expressing is spot on. Sumire wishes to live the life of the poems, to become a lover as described in the poems. Or put it this way: she is cultivating her life, so she can make of her life a poem that can express the full depth of her love.

The irony of all this is, as you point out, that the object of her love is incidental. Taichi is a star, but who he is actually, does not seem to be a part of Sumire's aspiration.

Of course, this is true of Taichi's aspiration for Chihaya as well. He loves her, and truly, but who she is, within her heart, is beyond him.

I think your description of Sumire as a person of deep feeling who only has superficial outlets for her passion is exactly correct. Thanks for bringing this out.
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Old 2013-01-20, 20:04   Link #245
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Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
My take of that scene is that Chihaya had been very down because all the members are gone. So when Sumire shows up Taichi is overjoyed so Chihaya don't need to feel down anymore. It had little to do with "an extra member showing up" but "Chihaya don't need to be sad anymore", which is in character of Taichi that he will do anything to make Chihaya happy.
You're turning me into a terrible person for agreeing with this now.
*saves explanation for future Taichi bashing*
But still, I'd like to think there's a small part of him that's happy for the sake of the club, like how he was happy over Arata being back (even if I didn't personally find it 100% believable).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Come to think of it while the I said there are no one dimensional characters in the series and I am happy with Sumire's signs of growth, I will say Chihaya's sister is a bit of a weaker character.

She always comes across as really vain and rude to Chihaya. I just wish there was more to her. Well at least she has a rather small part in the series as a whole.
She comes off rather typical for siblings. To me, she's seems like one of those 'only I'm allowed to be a dick to my sister' type sibling, except that we never see her defending Chihaya since Chihaya seemed more than capable herself.

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Originally Posted by Arya View Post
I think that Chihaya' sister, as much as their parents, was meant to outline the outside world, "our" world, more than anything else. I mean, to me Chihaya and Chitose have very similar paths. Both are "skilled" in their own field/world, Chihaya is not the queen, yet, as much as her sister is not a top model/whatever, yet, but both have good chances. But Chitose has always been acknowledged and supported by their parents, instead Chihaya hasn't ever been. Chihaya's family role was intended as worldbuilding. As much as Taichi mother. For that reason they didn't need development. They showed us how unnoticed karuta world is, how far from the society that world is. They showed us which are the standard values of our society. But they are not bad persons. Ultimately they are not ignoring their kin, they are ignoring Karuta. So karuta ignores them! The rule is simple, they need to accept Karuta to become a character.

That makes me think that, on that matter of classes, the author is not trying to criticize some particular social class, if I had to say, she is criticizing our society as a whole, where every main character is a victim. Even Taichi, especially Taichi, the one who was once a liar and a thief, was on the verge to become a bully and later even a womanizer.
There's also the aspect where her family is one of those typical families that banks almost everything into the eldest child since they are given the most responsibility (ie. the future lies in Chitose). And considering they aren't rich, it'd make financial sense to pour as much as possible into the eldest, then feed hand-me-downs to the subsequent child/children.


Off on another tangent, I want to see more of Yuu (Arata's neighbor), because there was a hint of how much she cared for Arata (ep 5 of season 1 was one of my personal favourites).
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Old 2013-01-21, 08:05   Link #246
hyperborealis
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Jane over at 1000 Summers makes a nice catch re Tsukuba's name: the kanji for his name opens poem #13. So, like Chihaya (Chihayaburu, #17) & Shinobu (Shinoburedo, #40), Tsukuba has his own card. So, maybe he will make meijin Jane connects Tsukuba the anime character to Retired Emperor Yozei, a violent tyrant deposed for wantonly killing people for sport--but notes that the poem is a love poem, so--my reading now--perhaps he will be another sadist who loves karuta, like Sudo.

Here is Mostow's translation of #13:

Like the Mina river
that falls from the peak
of Mount Tsukuba,
so my longing has collected
and turned into deep pools.
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Old 2013-01-21, 08:26   Link #247
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I know he didn't mean anything by it. But if he'd been the kind of guy to string a girl along just because she's convenient to have around, he'd have acted exactly the same.
Ah my man, glad to have you back, nice to have a voice of reason in a thread populated by Taichi supporters.

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Originally Posted by Grifis View Post
Wow, all the fanboys are really in love with Taichi. I think they need to turn this into a BL story (like Taichi x some boy in the club or something) so the boys can love it even more. I was going to watch this but it seems my poor boy Arata's screen time is reduced to non-existent. Even the OP suggests that Arata is no more. It's a damn shame. This @#$% writer deserves to be French fried.
Winner of this thread.
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Old 2013-01-21, 10:05   Link #248
Kirarakim
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So apparently being anti a character is considered reasonable.

I will continue to be unreasonably for Taichi and all the characters then.
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Old 2013-01-21, 12:06   Link #249
Blaat
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
You're turning me into a terrible person for agreeing with this now.
*saves explanation for future Taichi bashing*
But still, I'd like to think there's a small part of him that's happy for the sake of the club, like how he was happy over Arata being back (even if I didn't personally find it 100% believable).
Regarding seeing Arata play again, in the manga he thought 'a part of me isn't happy about it but still another part of me is. We did it.'
Take that as you will although saying this to a guy who thinks Taichi attempting to strangle Arata would be in-character might not be so smart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
Off on another tangent, I want to see more of Yuu (Arata's neighbor), because there was a hint of how much she cared for Arata (ep 5 of season 1 was one of my personal favourites).
I definitely agree with this one, I hope she'll appear this season.
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Old 2013-01-21, 14:05   Link #250
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Crontica View Post
Ah my man, glad to have you back, nice to have a voice of reason in a thread populated by Taichi supporters.
I generally am a Taichi supporter. Maybe not in the shipping sense, where I prefer to wait and see, but I find Taichi quite sympathetic, at least since he stopped being a bully.

I just acknowledge that this was one instance of bad timing and of his usual social awareness failing him because he was distracted. I don't really blame him, but I can see that it did look bad.
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Old 2013-01-21, 14:15   Link #251
Archon_Wing
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
So apparently being anti a character is considered reasonable.
Of course. Coming up with actual reasons to dislike a character is too hard so it's better if we just separate casts into "us or them" simply because the other character is a romantic rival. And for some reason reason this constitutes "winning" as in male-female because well, screw the fact that Chihaya's striving for karuta. She is a female and thus must conform to social standards and find herself being a prize for the romantic ambitions of a male, otherwise she will be unsuitable for marriage.

Needless to say, I find 90% of shipping wars (including this one) to be garbage.

Chihaya x Karuta, obviously
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Old 2013-01-21, 15:23   Link #252
hyperborealis
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So true! I mean, in this very episode, when Sumire tells Kana and Chihaya she has her sights on Mashima-senpai, Kana thinks she is crazy about love, and then the animation writes in "karuta-baka" next to Chihaya. How much more explicit can the anime get?!
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Old 2013-01-21, 15:40   Link #253
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Of course. Coming up with actual reasons to dislike a character is too hard so it's better if we just separate casts into "us or them" simply because the other character is a romantic rival. And for some reason reason this constitutes "winning" as in male-female because well, screw the fact that Chihaya's striving for karuta. She is a female and thus must conform to social standards and find herself being a prize for the romantic ambitions of a male, otherwise she will be unsuitable for marriage.

Needless to say, I find 90% of shipping wars (including this one) to be garbage.

Chihaya x Karuta, obviously
My comment wasn't in regards to shipping, just the fact that certain people feel the need to constantly make posts against a character.
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Old 2013-01-21, 15:43   Link #254
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
My comment wasn't in regards to shipping, just the fact that certain people feel the need to constantly make posts against a character.
I know. I'm just bitter (and hypocritical)
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Old 2013-01-21, 18:29   Link #255
Arya
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I just acknowledge that this was one instance of bad timing and of his usual social awareness failing him because he was distracted. I don't really blame him, but I can see that it did look bad.
I saw it in the same way. Considering even how apparently he should have been aware of Sumire's interest toward him from the past episode. On the other side I even thought that it was intended as a sort of comedic closure (because it was a bit OOC for him). Even if I don't know if it delivered.
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Old 2013-01-21, 18:41   Link #256
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Chihaya's parents have barely any screentime at all, but I wouldn't say they don't care about Chihaya. They do have a small scrapbook of Chihaya's few kurata accomplishments. I think they dot on them both equally, but the sister happens to have more publicity stuff to put in a scrapbook.

The sister just seems indifferent to Chihaya. She doesn't care about Kurata so she just sees it as some kind of 'little hobby' that her sister is doing. Same with Chihaya, she doesn't pay any particular attention to her sister's modeling either.
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Old 2013-01-21, 21:23   Link #257
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Regarding seeing Arata play again, in the manga he thought 'a part of me isn't happy about it but still another part of me is. We did it.'
That was said in the show, as well.
Just because I understood the writer/mangaka's intent, doesn't mean I have to find it believable, especially when there are more things showing otherwise. I can't be bothered going over this again, as I had already explained my case in the season 1 thread.
Anyway, Sumire is the latest proof of people not finding Sumire's goal of "finding love" to be believable, so really, it can just be chalked up as the mangaka isn't always that good at presenting certain ideas.

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Take that as you will although saying this to a guy who thinks Taichi attempting to strangle Arata would be in-character might not be so smart.
Um, you don't strangle someone when you're near a staircase...
And beside, I think you missed the idea of why I consider in character: being tempted to take shortcuts.
The easy way to get to this situation is for Chihaya to not acknowledge Taichi's dedication and Chihaya and Arata being an inch closer together. Temptations are always worst in desperate situations.
But then again, it's obviously an outrageously bold, unsubstantiated claim since I couldn't back it up with evidence of Taichi being extremely possessive, showing capability of being violent, or resorting to underhanded tactics in an act of desperation.

Anyway, I don't want to argue about him anymore, the less I think of his actions, the better opinion I'll have of him.
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Old 2013-01-21, 23:56   Link #258
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In a way, I am glad the thread turns out the way I wanted (just as planned! light Yagami face) that the thread had turned into pro vs against Taichi

To me, posting/ reading in an anime forum thread is about learning what people from other background think of the same material I watch. Frankly, no argument will make me like a certain anime which I hate or hate a character which I adored. However, I am interested to know why other people think so differently compare to me. So having different opinions is a very good thing.

To me, except Chihaya, everyone in the series is very realistic (maybe realistic is a bad word, since there are people in real life act like Chihaya), rather than idealistic. What makes Taichi so bad even if he only thinking of Chihaya instead of the club? I can clearly see the inner struggle of Taichi regarding Arata, he consider Arata as a friend (otherwise he can do plenty of underhanded tactics to separate him from Chihaya: e.g. not telling Chihaya Arata texted him) and yet he knows Arata would be his greatest obstacles to get thru Chihaya.

To me, Taichi is like someone I know from the real world, he has his good and bad and yet I will still consider him as a friend.

On a side note, what do the anti-Taichi faction thinks of Hikaru (Hikaru no Go)? Because frankly, I saw Hikaru do much worse stuff to a friend (Sai/Akari) then anything Taichi ever did and yet I never see the hate toward Hikaru. To me, both Hikaru and Taichi is realistic, compare to idealistic characters.
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Old 2013-01-22, 04:11   Link #259
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So Chihaya's on her quest to convince people that Karuta is better than sex, but it's not going very well. And Sumire proved to be of use so they can add to the group, though she's pretty honest with her intentions and not the best, but they're desperate.

I guess the point of this season is that Chihaya will improve her understanding to be able to teach others. She is good at the game, but she's a lousy teacher, and demonstrations can only go that much. She does things too much without thinking, and is too disconnected with everyone else's goals. Well everyone has their own agendas right now and could work together to find better meanings in each other as well as their own goals.

Maybe... great show regardless.
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Old 2013-01-22, 04:14   Link #260
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
So Chihaya's on her quest to convince people that Karuta is better than sex, but it's not going very well.
But how would she know which is better unless she tries both
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