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Old 2013-01-21, 04:42   Link #321
larethian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink Cow View Post
It irks me when fansubbers do something like this:

*character says "Ohayou!*
subtitle: "Ohayou!"
T/N: "Ohayou means 'good morning'."

You can replace "ohayou" with any common greeting and they would still put a translator's note. What I don't get is why don't they just translate the phrase in English? This bothers me a lot. It also happens in scanlations. I can understand if it's a term or phrase that is difficult to translate to English, but words and phrases like ohayou, arigatou, gomen nasai, etc? You've got to be kidding me...
LOL! Do subs still do that? I remember the dark ages when they do. But these days I don't see any of those.
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Old 2013-01-21, 06:44   Link #322
Pink Cow
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Originally Posted by larethian View Post
LOL! Do subs still do that? I remember the dark ages when they do. But these days I don't see any of those.
Apparently some still do. D: maybe I'm just unlucky with the stuff I get. It's not just in fansubbed anime, but even J-dramas and manga scanlations. It annoys me and makes me want to bash my head on the wall!
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Old 2013-01-21, 14:21   Link #323
jfs
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Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
Here's an interesting theoretical question to ask yourself though:

Let's say you have 3 translators, A, B, and C.

A can translate from language J to language X
B can translate from language X to language Y
C can translate from language J to language Y

You want a translation into language Y, so have 2 choices: double translation A->B or single C

The question is, what level of skill of the translators A, B, and C makes one or the other a better choice?

Clearly if C is a terrible translator and A and B are both excellent, the double translation is superior. And if A, B, and C are all just as good, then C's single translation is superior in all cases. But what if C is half as good as both A and B?
Is the quality of A's translation more important than B's? (I would hypothesize this).

Especially with more obscure languages, finding a competent direct translator may be nigh impossible...
Then what about the case of letting B do the bulk of the work, based on A, but then have C look over it afterwards. How large is the risk that C would introduce new mistakes?
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Old 2013-01-22, 03:43   Link #324
Kokujin-kun
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Originally Posted by larethian View Post
LOL! Do subs still do that? I remember the dark ages when they do. But these days I don't see any of those.
Yeppers. But I think the one good thing about the Crunchy era is that it has really cut down on that kind of fatuous practice.
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Old 2013-01-22, 04:11   Link #325
erneiz_hyde
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Originally Posted by Kokujin-kun View Post
Yeppers. But I think the one good thing about the Crunchy era is that it has really cut down on that kind of fatuous practice.
Eh...I'd say that one is still acceptable. It's a traditional cake of the Japanese culture, therefore it doesn't have a perfectly equivalent term in English. Swapping that with just rice cake...may also still be somewhat acceptable, but it misses on the cultural aspect so I don't particularly mind with this particular one.

What is unacceptable is the aforementioned "ohayou", because there is a perfectly equivalent term in English that is "Good Morning". The most notoriously legendary example of this is the "just as keikaku" (tl note: keikaku means plan).
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Old 2013-01-22, 05:33   Link #326
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
The most notoriously legendary example of this is the "just as keikaku" (tl note: keikaku means plan).
See, people like that need to realize that translation is an art. It's not just exchanging words. If you're not going to translate completely, then just leave it so someone who understands...
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Old 2013-01-22, 09:15   Link #327
Kokujin-kun
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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Eh...I'd say that one is still acceptable.
I suppose so, if they could only learn to spell "kinako mochi" right.
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Old 2013-01-22, 10:21   Link #328
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by Rakshasa View Post
Really below the level of level 2 / N2 being self-taught really isn't that much of a problem. But when you get to N1/2 it really does strongly favor those who have gone through some curriculum built around the more varied aspects of Japanese language not seen as much in daily life.

Now many years ago our university's head Japanese (native) teacher visited the anime club's showing, and giggled quite heartedly at the translations. After the shin-sekai yori mess on these forums where some hapless translator thought a girl would say 'boku' the male personal pronoun rather than '~poku' the grammatical form, I fear to download anything with subs.

Hmm... This talk of JPLT makes me realize it's probably about time I do N1 this summer after years of slacking off, cause stuffing your head full of comp.sci. related vocabulary isn't as well-rounded.
That exists...

The ~poku can be found out by listening to the thing before it (since it describes something that has the characteristic of whatever comes before it). Gender pronoun in fiction works are not necessarily strict


It depends how you "study" actually...I admit I've never touched a single textbook at all. I just read stuff that I like...romance, SF, LN, eroge, fantasy...whatever. My speaking skill is crap as a result though


As for the Ns...I did say anything N3 and below was worthless no? It's even lower than elementary school level I'm quite sure. End of elementary school level should be around N1 or N2? Mah...exams never really interested me. They are just something you take to apply for Japanese universities and that's it...Your Japanese skill will naturally go up exponentially once you get in.
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Old 2013-01-22, 10:29   Link #329
Rika-chama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
The most notoriously legendary example of this is the "just as keikaku" (tl note: keikaku means plan).
This is funny, however, it was never actually in a fansub. It was a jokesub that showed up on 4chan's /a/ board, if I remember correctly.
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Old 2013-01-22, 12:04   Link #330
erneiz_hyde
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Originally Posted by Kokujin-ku
I suppose so, if they could only learn to spell "kinako mochi" right.
Dude, it's a one letter typo, it happens

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rika-chama View Post
This is funny, however, it was never actually in a fansub. It was a jokesub that showed up on 4chan's /a/ board, if I remember correctly.
Thanks for correcting me. So I guess it was actually a trollsub, presumably to jab on how to NOT sub. Speaking of which, that makes me remember that certain Gundam 00 movie sub
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Old 2013-01-22, 23:02   Link #331
Rakshasa
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
That exists...

The ~poku can be found out by listening to the thing before it (since it describes something that has the characteristic of whatever comes before it). Gender pronoun in fiction works are not necessarily strict
Add the implied 'in this context/story'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
It depends how you "study" actually...I admit I've never touched a single textbook at all. I just read stuff that I like...romance, SF, LN, eroge, fantasy...whatever. My speaking skill is crap as a result though
You should have heard the speaking skills of the Chinese exchange students, they passed L1/2 easily yet could hardly communicate at all verbally.
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Old 2013-01-22, 23:45   Link #332
GabrieliosP
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Regarding the "Ohayou" stuff... God, I hate it. Except when there's no way to adapt.

For example, in my country there is no equivalent of Middle School, since we treat Elementary and Middle school as a single group named "Fundamental Education" (in a free translation), so whenever someone speaks about it... well... there are issues.

Most subs just leave "Middle School" in japanese and put a TL note, but they can sometimes make it a reference to the old system in my country. It was a long time ago, back when my parents were still in school, my country divided the school in three parts: "Fundamental Education" (Elementary School), "Gymnasium" (Middle School) and "Medium Education" (High School), so sometimes the subs refer to Middle School as "Gymnasium", but most people don't get it (in fact, the official releases of the mangas Sugar Sugar Rune and Kimi ni Todoke do it, but also put a note explaining what "Gymnasium" means at the end of every volume in their glossary).
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Old 2013-01-23, 00:51   Link #333
Kudryavka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
It depends how you "study" actually...I admit I've never touched a single textbook at all. I just read stuff that I like...romance, SF, LN, eroge, fantasy...whatever. My speaking skill is crap as a result though
Wow, how you did that lol
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Old 2013-01-23, 04:03   Link #334
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakshasa View Post
Add the implied 'in this context/story'...



You should have heard the speaking skills of the Chinese exchange students, they passed L1/2 easily yet could hardly communicate at all verbally.
HAHA....I AM Chinese by race. Yes....reading/writing is easier for us due to the shared script. Speaking needs someone to speak to though. When I was on exchange in Japan, my speaking skill shot up much more than it did in a year. That's why those that have the best language skills are those who actually study in Japan....too bad environmental pressure cannot be replicated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
Wow, how you did that lol
When you love something enough.....
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Old 2013-01-23, 04:06   Link #335
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
HAHA....I AM Chinese by race. Yes....reading/writing is easy for us. Speaking needs someone to speak to though. When I was on exchange in Japan, my speaking skill shot up much more than it did in a year



When you love something enough.....
Thats how it is for me, my speaking is always the worst in other languages.
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Old 2013-01-23, 07:51   Link #336
False Dawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
That exists...
Ayu of Kanon fame uses it, if I remember correctly.

Gabrielos, that's interesting - I'm assuming you live in Brazil, taking your location at face value, but Gymnasium is what they use in Germany. Odd how that word has mutated across languages (of course, in English, it's jim ).
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Old 2013-04-13, 04:42   Link #337
Mouretsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneizel View Post
I think literal translation is a pretty common mistake made by fansubbers.
It is a common mistake along with not adding honorifics. This kills the originality of the series itself once the translation drifts off from the actual meaning.

Some people are okay with that and some are not okay with that. But here is the question to you (everyone) - You're okay with localized translation or literal translation?

I prefer literal translation to keep its original meaning as close as possible - you get a better idea of what the Producers wanted to make and what type of signal they wanted to send to those who watch it. And if you lack the understanding of some meanings, then do a little research - googling stuff is not very hard, is it?
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Old 2013-04-13, 05:40   Link #338
PositronCannon
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Originally Posted by Mouretsu View Post
It is a common mistake along with not adding honorifics. This kills the originality of the series itself once the translation drifts off from the actual meaning.

Some people are okay with that and some are not okay with that. But here is the question to you (everyone) - You're okay with localized translation or literal translation?

I prefer literal translation to keep its original meaning as close as possible - you get a better idea of what the Producers wanted to make and what type of signal they wanted to send to those who watch it. And if you lack the understanding of some meanings, then do a little research - googling stuff is not very hard, is it?
Thing is, literal translations do not necessarily "keep the original meaning" because they're often originally natural-sounding lines in Japanese that sound like stilted crap if translated literally. To keep the intended meaning, you'd need to make a line have the same "feel" for a Western audience as it did for the Japanese - and funnily enough, taking a certain degree of liberty with the translation is what gets closest to achieving this. Of course, it has to be done right or you'll end up making it worse than with a literal translation. It's a delicate balance, but that's what separates good translated scripts from mediocre ones.

I'm perfectly okay with stuff like honorifics, but they can also be omitted with far less of an issue than people make it out to be. But that argument has been gone over a million times by now so whatever.
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Old 2013-04-13, 11:09   Link #339
roxybudgy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PositronCannon View Post
Thing is, literal translations do not necessarily "keep the original meaning" because they're often originally natural-sounding lines in Japanese that sound like stilted crap if translated literally.
This, as well as the rest of the post, but only quoting the first part to keep post short.

I've only done translations for two episodes and refused to do more as I feel that I am still not a competent anime translator (I'm more comfortable with manga), but the other day I watched the episodes that I did the translations for, and I kept thinking to myself that the dialogue is too literal, making it seem weird and awkward in English, wishing I could revise it to feel more natural in English while retaining the spirit and meaning of the original Japanese dialogue.

For example: saki yori hiroku naru... ano kumo (literally: before than wider become... that cloud)

I had translated that to "It seems to have spread further... those clouds", but watching it again now, I feel that "Those clouds seem to have spread further..." would feel more natural in English and better matched the situation, rather than trying to copy the Japanese as literally as possible.

The fansubbers I worked with did not speak English as their first/native language, so I guess it didn't seem weird to them. But as a native English speaker, my old translations embarrass me for being so clunky >.<
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Old 2013-04-13, 17:00   Link #340
DmonHiro
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Translating everything as literal as possible to the original Japanese produces some of the, if not the worst subtitles possible. Japanese sentence structure differs too much. Also, they word their dialogue differently. For example, when someone is talking about someone who just died, they might leave the sentence incomplete (excluding the word "died"). If you take that and do a literal translation, you will get "My father...". The natural response would be "You're father what?". So, you should write it as "My father just died", even though the Japanese script does not have the word for "died" in it.

TLDR: 100% literal translations suck. Quick way to tell: read it out loud. If you feel stupid saying it, CHANGE IT!
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