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Old 2013-01-22, 07:52   Link #1101
Mazyrian
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
I think they just donated their power for the cause, but theyre not actually there past that. Theyre all dead.
About to die, not dead (and they get saved in the true end)
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Old 2013-01-22, 08:08   Link #1102
Randrak42
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The Dream World was created by everyone and they ARE there. Kyousuke uses the world make Riki and Rin strong enough to survive...but the rest use the world to overcome the regrets they have before dying. Like Kud's regret for not going to her mother when shit hit the fan or Mio not having dealt with her issues with Midori properly or Komari's trauma relating to her brother.

I always assumed Kanata and everyone else that wasn't on the buss at the time of the accident (Saya aside) were simply created and as copies from the real world by whatever power that created the world in the first please (I know they created the world but the power that created such a world could have done it like that), this would also explain some of the extras or people that nobody knew about. Or maybe they were created based on everyone collective memories or something like that.

I'm not sure when Kanata's route is set (before or after Refrain) but I do know that Sasami's route is set AFTER Refrain.
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Old 2013-01-22, 09:43   Link #1103
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
The Dream World was created by everyone and they ARE there. Kyousuke uses the world make Riki and Rin strong enough to survive...but the rest use the world to overcome the regrets they have before dying. Like Kud's regret for not going to her mother when shit hit the fan or Mio not having dealt with her issues with Midori properly or Komari's trauma relating to her brother.

I always assumed Kanata and everyone else that wasn't on the buss at the time of the accident (Saya aside) were simply created and as copies from the real world by whatever power that created the world in the first please (I know they created the world but the power that created such a world could have done it like that), this would also explain some of the extras or people that nobody knew about. Or maybe they were created based on everyone collective memories or something like that.

I'm not sure when Kanata's route is set (before or after Refrain) but I do know that Sasami's route is set AFTER Refrain.
Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me. And that's what I was saying at first, Kanata and everyone not on the bus (Riki's homeroom and Kyousuke) do not actually exist in the world, they are just functioning memories to help the Little Busters get stronger. I'd guess that Kanata's route takes place after Refrain as well due to that.

Speaking of the bus accident, was it a coincidence that in Rin 2 route (or whenever it happens) a bus accident happens at a nearby school? And why did Rin's progress in becoming friendlier regress so suddenly (like how she had to go to kindergarten and acted like a child)? And why did Masato start seeing himself everywhere?
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Old 2013-01-22, 10:02   Link #1104
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
Speaking of the bus accident, was it a coincidence that in Rin 2 route (or whenever it happens) a bus accident happens at a nearby school?
I'm not sure, but I believe that was Kyousuke creating that accident to drop hints to help Riki remember and figure out the dream world.

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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
And why did Rin's progress in becoming friendlier regress so suddenly (like how she had to go to kindergarten and acted like a child)?
She had a traumatic event at the end of Rin2, an already extreme introvert is suddenly assaulted by a large group of men in the dark of the night while Riki is taken away from her? That pretty much broke her.
When a loop happens Riki and Rin's memories reset, however their personalities and all other attributes don't, so she retained her broken state and Kyousuke probably set things up around that for the new loop.

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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
And why did Masato start seeing himself everywhere?
It was Kyousuke...remember that Kyousuke has the ability of changing that Dream World (I think he does it freely) and so he kinda put that illusion on Masato so he would eventually snap and return to how he was before meeting Kyousuke. His objective was to have Riki defeat and save Masato from himself, eventually recruiting Kengo too and then Kyousuke, which would mean he had taken Kyousuke's position in the group.
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Old 2013-01-22, 10:44   Link #1105
Zankoku12
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me. And that's what I was saying at first, Kanata and everyone not on the bus (Riki's homeroom and Kyousuke) do not actually exist in the world, they are just functioning memories to help the Little Busters get stronger. I'd guess that Kanata's route takes place after Refrain as well due to that.
But Kyosuke was on the bus......

And no,Kanata's route take place entirely in the dream world.
Maybe in the real world Kanata is actually in the same class with everyone
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Old 2013-01-22, 14:57   Link #1106
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Originally Posted by Zankoku12 View Post
But Kyosuke was on the bus......

And no,Kanata's route take place entirely in the dream world.
Maybe in the real world Kanata is actually in the same class with everyone
Yea, thats why I said Riki's homeroom and Kyousuke. They were all on bus.

Is she in the same class with Riki? I dont remember it ever saying that, but if thats so, then okay.

:edit: I am pretty sure that Kanata is not in Riki's class, since she never shows up in the many classroom scenes as a classmate, and when Riki first sees her he doesnt mention that shes in his class. Meaning she never was on the bus, never died, and didnt know about the Dream world. So I dont think her route could take place in the dream world if the real Kanata was never there.

Last edited by Kudryavka; 2013-01-22 at 15:44.
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Old 2013-01-22, 16:47   Link #1107
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It could just be a plot-hole...I mean, they made her route because of fan outcry for it but there isn't a real decent place to put it during the Dream World and after Refrain the cries of "Then Kanata is the final girl since she's romance with her happens in the Real World!" would start bombarding them.

I don't think we should think much about what is essentially a non-canon route.
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Old 2013-01-22, 19:33   Link #1108
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
It could just be a plot-hole...I mean, they made her route because of fan outcry for it but there isn't a real decent place to put it during the Dream World and after Refrain the cries of "Then Kanata is the final girl since she's romance with her happens in the Real World!" would start bombarding them.

I don't think we should think much about what is essentially a non-canon route.
Of course, the other possibility is that the Dream World Kanata is another highly biased account, made from those with better relations with Kanata than Haruka in Riki's class. The main reason why Kanata in Haruka's route was so blatantly evil to almost a cartoonish extent could basically be because we are seeing Kanata from Haruka's rather troubled perspective, and family history. The Kanata in Kanata's route is not the real Kanata, but a more positive portrayal of Kanata from those who are now closer to Kanata than Haruka was. In a Meta-sense, essentially in world Kanata Fans.

This is just a wild theory.

Or, it could be like Kud Wafter - an Alternate Universe route, set outside the dreamworld.

I would really like the transcripts of her route....
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Old 2013-01-23, 01:01   Link #1109
Zankoku12
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post

:edit: I am pretty sure that Kanata is not in Riki's class, since she never shows up in the many classroom scenes as a classmate, and when Riki first sees her he doesnt mention that shes in his class. Meaning she never was on the bus, never died, and didnt know about the Dream world. So I dont think her route could take place in the dream world if the real Kanata was never there.
All those scenes are from the dream world,and since the dream world was made unconsciously by Kyosuke and the rest of LB! girls.Some of them might unconsciously made Kanata end up in a different class in the dream world.
Like for example,it would be a pain for Haruka to visit Riki's classroom if Kanata always there

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
It could just be a plot-hole...I mean, they made her route because of fan outcry for it but there isn't a real decent place to put it during the Dream World and after Refrain the cries of "Then Kanata is the final girl since she's romance with her happens in the Real World!" would start bombarding them.

I don't think we should think much about what is essentially a non-canon route.
Isn't the bombarding already happened with Sasami,I don't see why they couldn't do it with Kanata.

And to me,Kanata/Saya route is just as canon as any other heroines.
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Old 2013-01-23, 01:10   Link #1110
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Originally Posted by Zankoku12 View Post


Isn't the bombarding already happened with Sasami,I don't see why they couldn't do it with Kanata.

And to me,Kanata/Saya route is just as canon as any other heroines.
Sasami's route is explained to be set in a world similar to the Dream World but created by her cat or something like that. Kanata's never explained where it is set or when as far as I know.

As for what's canon and what's not...well it depends, some people believe only that in the original is canon, others believe EX to be canon as well...hell I've herd some say Kud Wafter was the true canon ending (lol...just no). Personally I'm fine with just the original and possibly Saya's route being canon, but since I haven't played Saya's yet, to me only the original is canon and the rest are just extras.
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Old 2013-01-23, 01:13   Link #1111
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by Zankoku12 View Post
All those scenes are from the dream world,and since the dream world was made unconsciously by Kyosuke and the rest of LB! girls.Some of them might unconsciously made Kanata end up in a different class in the dream world.
Like for example,it would be a pain for Haruka to visit Riki's classroom if Kanata always there
Possible, but why assert that instead of whats plainly obvious? Youre kinda grasping for straws here.
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Old 2013-01-23, 01:18   Link #1112
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Like I said,Kanata's route happened in the dream world b4 refrain.
In refrain epilogue,Riki mentioned how Haruka seem to have make up and get along with Kanata.
So Kanata's route wouldn't made any sense if it happened after refrain since the twin have already make up.

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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
Possible, but why assert that instead of whats plainly obvious? Youre kinda grasping for straws here.
I only provided my theory of what might happened in Kanata's case lol
If you're still insist Kanata isn't real in their dream world then just ignore it.
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Old 2013-01-23, 01:25   Link #1113
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by Zankoku12 View Post
Like I said,Kanata's route happened in the dream world b4 refrain.
In refrain epilogue,Riki mentioned how Haruka seem to have make up and get along with Kanata.
So Kanata's route wouldn't made any sense if it happened after refrain since the twin have already make up.



I only provided my theory of what might happened in Kanata's case lol
If you're still insist Kanata isn't real in their dream world then just ignore it.
I was just wondering why you were presenting your theory as fact. Theory is fine, but please dont say its the only way and our other ways are wrong unless you have proof.

Andd theres the "theory" that her story is not canon and we're all wrong by definition.
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Old 2013-01-23, 01:34   Link #1114
Zankoku12
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I was just wondering why you were presenting your theory as fact. Theory is fine, but please dont say its the only way and our other ways are wrong unless you have proof.
I'm pretty sure I said might many times any my previous posts while you said you're sure about yours.

And I never denied any of the other ways,I don't even know where you get that idea from
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Old 2013-01-23, 01:48   Link #1115
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I'm pretty sure I said might many times any my previous posts while you said you're sure about yours.

And I never denied any of the other ways,I don't even know where you get that idea from
I said "pretty sure" and "dont think". Not sure.

And yes, you said might for Kanata being in their class, but at least once you stated that Kanata's route is in dream world as fact. Which would mean what we had said was def wrong.

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Originally Posted by Zankoku12 View Post
And no,Kanata's route take place entirely in the dream world.
Sorry if i interpreted that as "you guys are wrong and here's why".

Anyway, prob means the writer didnt care and just made her story not canon. In which case i rest, theres no point to this anymore.
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Old 2013-01-23, 02:08   Link #1116
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I don't consider any of Ex routes as non canon,I prefer to call it "untold stories".

Especially Saya's route,her route is just too good and so long(alot longer than refrain) for me to disregarded it.
But of course that was just my biased opinion.
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Old 2013-01-23, 02:26   Link #1117
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Several Scenarios:

Kanata is in the same class, but choose (perhaps with the connivance of some of the LB Girls closer to her) to put herself in a different class within the dream world for Haruka's sake. I find this quite a stretch - why would Haruka sneak onto the same bus as Kanata?

Secondly, Kanata herself was never in the dream world in person. The Kanata of Haruka's route is Haruka's perception of Kanata. Likewise, the Kanata in Kanata's route is the combined perception of those more sympathetic to her. Perhaps from Kud, etc.... The dilema here is then, where does this Kanata come from, and who dream her in?

Thirdly, this is the only non-canonical route (but if Saya and Sasami's routes are canonical, then it's quite odd for Kanata's to be non-canonical). It could well be a What If AU scenario where Riki gets close to Kanata, and resolves the issues between the two sisters from the Kanata as opposed to the Haruka direction. In other words, Kud Wafter... (if I read the synopsis correctly, the Accident never happened in the Summer trip, and the implication then is, if the Accident never happened, Riki would have ended up with Kud, while in the Summer trip, it's probably more of a toast up between Rin and Kurugaya.)

Fourth: Kanata could have somehow found her way into the dream world, via unexplained circumstances.

Well, it seems that Kanata's route is the outlier here, since the other routes have plausible explanations.

Another final comment: it seems that Kurugaya has the closest equivalent role among the LB Girls that Kyousuke has to the boys. Of course, she has very different personality quirks and issues, but still fill the exact same role that Kyousuke fills for the boys.
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Old 2013-01-23, 03:20   Link #1118
Zankoku12
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Fourth: Kanata could have somehow found her way into the dream world, via unexplained circumstances.

Another final comment: it seems that Kurugaya has the closest equivalent role among the LB Girls that Kyousuke has to the boys. Of course, she has very different personality quirks and issues, but still fill the exact same role that Kyousuke fills for the boys.
You mean like Saya case ? I haven't thought about that but if Kanata is an outsider like Saya,I doubt Kyosuke would just leave anything outside his plan interfered like that.
Kanata also have drama CD that seem to have happened after her route :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT6KFFKAZjc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-y0QY55Lu8

The first vid is obviously take place after her route but in the second vid she mentioned about the upcoming school trip so it took place before the bus accident ?
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Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
Another final comment: it seems that Kurugaya has the closest equivalent role among the LB Girls that Kyousuke has to the boys. Of course, she has very different personality quirks and issues, but still fill the exact same role that Kyousuke fills for the boys.
Kurugaya and Kyosuke are the leader of their respective gender.It's like they are King and Queen.Not the best words to describe them but it does really look like they ruling/leading the group together.
....Now I just sound like I ship KyosukexKurugaya
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Old 2013-01-23, 06:13   Link #1119
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You mean like Saya case ? I haven't thought about that but if Kanata is an outsider like Saya,I doubt Kyosuke would just leave anything outside his plan interfered like that.
Kanata also have drama CD that seem to have happened after her route :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT6KFFKAZjc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-y0QY55Lu8

The first vid is obviously take place after her route but in the second vid she mentioned about the upcoming school trip so it took place before the bus accident ?


Kurugaya and Kyosuke are the leader of their respective gender.It's like they are King and Queen.Not the best words to describe them but it does really look like they ruling/leading the group together.
....Now I just sound like I ship KyosukexKurugaya
But if Kanata was part of Kyousuke's plan..... well, I guess we'd never know how she ended up in the dream world, unless we regard the whole thing as uncanonical, which is quite odd.

Of course, she could just as well have been on that bus - perhaps because Haruka sneaked onto that bus. Well.... possibly?

Though, if Kurugaya's true end was really the canonical ending, then technically, it'll be Riki and Kurugaya leading the Little Busters the next year, for both their respective genders.....

Sigh, we'd never get a Kurugya After, though arguably, Kud did deserve her own Afterstory too....

For some reason though, I tend to see the girls being sub-grouped more tightly in two general friendship circles, with Kurugaya, Mio and Haruka forming one circle, and Rin, Kud and Komari forming the other. I'm not sure how valid that perception is.....
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Old 2013-01-23, 10:12   Link #1120
Zankoku12
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But if Kanata was part of Kyousuke's plan..... well, I guess we'd never know how she ended up in the dream world, unless we regard the whole thing as uncanonical, which is quite odd.

Of course, she could just as well have been on that bus - perhaps because Haruka sneaked onto that bus. Well.... possibly?

Though, if Kurugaya's true end was really the canonical ending, then technically, it'll be Riki and Kurugaya leading the Little Busters the next year, for both their respective genders.....

Sigh, we'd never get a Kurugya After, though arguably, Kud did deserve her own Afterstory too....

For some reason though, I tend to see the girls being sub-grouped more tightly in two general friendship circles, with Kurugaya, Mio and Haruka forming one circle, and Rin, Kud and Komari forming the other. I'm not sure how valid that perception is.....
By Kanata being part of Kyosuke's plan,you mean she know everything and was in cahoot with him or she coming into the dream is Kyosuke doing ?

The first one is extremely unlikely since she's got no reason to cooparte with Kyosuke and if she knows about the secret,she would have deal with Haruka's problem in a much better way.
As for the second one,there's no reason for Kyosuke to bring her in.Kanata doesn't influence anything beside in Haruka's route.

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Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
Of course, she could just as well have been on that bus - perhaps because Haruka sneaked onto that bus. Well.... possibly?
If she know Haruka was on the bus,she would have done her job by summon her army and drag Haruka out or completely ignore it

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Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
Though, if Kurugaya's true end was really the canonical ending, then technically, it'll be Riki and Kurugaya leading the Little Busters the next year, for both their respective genders.....
*Imagining Riki and Kurugaya leading LB together"
......................
I couldn't see anything but the LB boys all got whipped and Kurugaya ruling both genders

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Sigh, we'd never get a Kurugya After, though arguably, Kud did deserve her own Afterstory too....
It's too bad that Kurugaya isn't a loli

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
For some reason though, I tend to see the girls being sub-grouped more tightly in two general friendship circles, with Kurugaya, Mio and Haruka forming one circle, and Rin, Kud and Komari forming the other. I'm not sure how valid that perception is.....
The former is the teasing/sadist group,the later is the noisy/flat chest group.
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