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View Poll Results: Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 16 Rating
Perfect 10 13 24.07%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 21 38.89%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 20.37%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 12.96%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.85%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.85%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-01-21, 13:50   Link #61
GoldenLand
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Those who might have been dangerous as adults have already been culled when children. Presumably if the village could determine at birth which babies had the potential to become demons they'd kill them off then.
That's partially what I hope the series won't end up saying. The village is set up in such a way that they can't afford to make even a single mistake. All it would take would be for them to fail to deal with an adult who's become a Fiend or Karma Demon, and boom, it's all over.

So, because of the risk they have a long period of time in which they observe the children and try to weed out the potentially dangerous ones. But one day, the child whom yesterday they were worried would turn on them legally becomes an adult, and...at that point they decide that they're no longer any threat, and they can't do anything to dispose of them? Yesterday, Child X is judged capable of becoming a karma demon or whatnot, but today they aren't. As a net to catch most or almost all of the risks, it works well. To catch them all, completely reliably? No way.

Shun, for example, was a level-headed character. His personality was probably very stable and good at dealing with stress, and his control over his power was great. Tomiko had high hopes for him, as did everyone. But then he went karma demon all of a sudden. Who's to say that that can't happen to an adult?

The entire thing becomes a sham if the village has no plans or processes for what to do if an adult displays risky behaviour. Which is fine if that's what the story is trying to point out, but not so fine if it isn't and there's no reasonable explanation given for it.
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Old 2013-01-21, 15:51   Link #62
SeijiSensei
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The counter to that viewpoint is Tomiko. She has lived for a couple hundred years and doesn't report any adults going "rogue" over her life-span. Now she may have been dissembling, but I didn't get that impression during her conversation with Saki. If anything, she was quite frank in her presentation of past events, presumably because she was grooming her successor.

It is also implied that puberty is the primary trigger. I don't recall seeing any young children in her discussion, and we know from the first episode that discovering PK powers seems correlated with puberty. That seems to be the reason why adolescent sexual behavior is encouraged as the means of coping with stress. The linkage between pubescent hormones and the potential to become a demon seems pretty strongly hinted at if not explained outright.
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Old 2013-01-21, 17:21   Link #63
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Satoru has grown quite a ways from the kid who used to fight with Saki all the time. I like this gradual, subtle development between childhood friends. If only romcoms would do the same for other osananajimi love interests...
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Old 2013-01-21, 23:54   Link #64
GoldenLand
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
The counter to that viewpoint is Tomiko. She has lived for a couple hundred years and doesn't report any adults going "rogue" over her life-span. Now she may have been dissembling, but I didn't get that impression during her conversation with Saki. If anything, she was quite frank in her presentation of past events, presumably because she was grooming her successor.
Yeah, I'm not saying that they have seen lots of adults going rogue, but that there is no reason to suppose that the adults are completely removed as a threat after the age of 17. Because their society is one which can't survive a single mistake, it seems foolish of them to fail to have a process in place for what to do if an adult displays dangerous behaviour.

According to Tomiko, before the Fiend "K" 245 years ago, there weren't any processes in place for dealing with children, either, and it's after that point that they changed the legal human age to 17 and started getting killing kids.

They found that "psychological and personality tests could be used to filter out children likely to violate the rules with almost perfect accuracy". But...almost perfect accuracy is not good enough in their society, given the risks. Chances of adults becoming dangerous are low, but do not appear to be nonexistent. I don't see how their systems could pick up in advance on people likely to become karma demons, either.

The adults are still capable of causing catastrophe with their PK, and it appears that many of them are still "sheep" as adults because of the hypnosis. The village still wants to prevent people getting stressed and having their minds destabilised, and that must mean that they don't have perfect faith in the magic of a 17th birthday. So...perhaps that's the answer, that they do still have concerns, but that they find the odds are too low for them to worry about. Which seems like a rather big oversight, but one which they might well make.

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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
The counter to that viewpoint is Tomiko. She has lived for a couple hundred years and doesn't report any adults going "rogue" over her life-span. Now she may have been dissembling, but I didn't get that impression during her conversation with Saki. If anything, she was quite frank in her presentation of past events, presumably because she was grooming her successor.

It is also implied that puberty is the primary trigger. ...The linkage between pubescent hormones and the potential to become a demon seems pretty strongly hinted at if not explained outright.
I didn't get that from the episodes, other than that of course somebody without PK can't become a demon. Just gave the eps a quick re-watch now, and they didn't really say anything about prepubescent hormones or anything that I could find as a sufficient implication. Who knows, it might be true, but they haven't stated it or explained it.

Tomiko stated that out of about 30 Fiends, all but two were boys (we don't know whether the other two were girls or adults humans). They don't really know what causes Fiends, but they theorise that it could have been due to pre-emptive fear of attack, or to intoxication by endorphins.

For Karma Demons, very little appears to be known other than that it's a subconscious "bad spill" thing that gives a person no control over dangerous PL leakage, and that it affects very nice people more often that not. Shun was a very stable person, so it's hard to believe that the personality testing could have picked up on him as risky before he started to display the syndrome.
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Old 2013-01-22, 00:36   Link #65
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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
That's partially what I hope the series won't end up saying. The village is set up in such a way that they can't afford to make even a single mistake. All it would take would be for them to fail to deal with an adult who's become a Fiend or Karma Demon, and boom, it's all over.

So, because of the risk they have a long period of time in which they observe the children and try to weed out the potentially dangerous ones. But one day, the child whom yesterday they were worried would turn on them legally becomes an adult, and...at that point they decide that they're no longer any threat, and they can't do anything to dispose of them? Yesterday, Child X is judged capable of becoming a karma demon or whatnot, but today they aren't. As a net to catch most or almost all of the risks, it works well. To catch them all, completely reliably? No way.

Shun, for example, was a level-headed character. His personality was probably very stable and good at dealing with stress, and his control over his power was great. Tomiko had high hopes for him, as did everyone. But then he went karma demon all of a sudden. Who's to say that that can't happen to an adult?

The entire thing becomes a sham if the village has no plans or processes for what to do if an adult displays risky behaviour. Which is fine if that's what the story is trying to point out, but not so fine if it isn't and there's no reasonable explanation given for it.

you forget that shun(and the other part of the group) did not receive the brainwashing that the rest of the kids did. with the brainwashing, the problem potential kids only have minor problems (because of the brainwashing) so yeah, the problems come up slowly enough for the adults to take care of them before they gain momentum.
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Old 2013-01-22, 04:48   Link #66
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It seems people are conflating the dangers of Akki compared to Gouma.

They are clearly not the same thing, nor is the behavior of the affected person. The latter might not wish to die however there's no reason why they'd intentionally try to kill people, deaths would be more akin to accidents than mass murder.
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Old 2013-01-22, 05:50   Link #67
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
I also find it difficult to swallow that she would leave the person she loves (Saki) to help a friend (Mamoru).
She explained her decision very clearly in her letter, though. Also, Mamoru is not "just a friend." She loves him. There's more than one kind of love in the world (never mind how various loves can overlap in interesting ways, as feelings are often not clear-cut), and it's not only one of them that can drive people to make heavy decisions and great sacrifices.

As for akki and gouma, we will learn more about what causes them to develop in the first place, but that aside...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
Yeah, I'm not saying that they have seen lots of adults going rogue, but that there is no reason to suppose that the adults are completely removed as a threat after the age of 17. Because their society is one which can't survive a single mistake, it seems foolish of them to fail to have a process in place for what to do if an adult displays dangerous behaviour.
"Dangerous behavior" and "turn on them" are not the right phrases to use here... Gouma and akki suffer from very specific disorders that can be detected during childhood by thorough testing and careful observation. It's not really a personality issue per se, which is why it doesn't matter that Shun and Mamoru were both sweet kids.

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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
They found that "psychological and personality tests could be used to filter out children likely to violate the rules with almost perfect accuracy". But...almost perfect accuracy is not good enough in their society, given the risks.
The library critter said the exact same thing. Remember the order? First came education and psychological/personality testing that was almost completely successful. But "almost" wasn't good enough, so they added the whole bonobo thing with the aim to create a "society of love" where natural aggression is curbed further by finding other ways to vent stress/etc., and to create closer bonds among people. But they found that even that wasn't safe enough (and remember, here they're already eliminating potentially problematic children with an almost 100% accuracy), and that's when genetic manipulation came into the picture, with the aggression and attack control. Add to this the mind control that makes most people "sheep" as adults, and they've taken care of everything that can be possibly taken care of. Is it 10000% safe? No, but there's nothing more they can possibly do short of not reproducing anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
So...perhaps that's the answer, that they do still have concerns, but that they find the odds are too low for them to worry about. Which seems like a rather big oversight, but one which they might well make.
Pretty much. I don't think it's an oversight - it's more like, they've done everything they could. Given that psychological testing alone had an almost 100% accuracy, I think it's not unreasonable to think that, everything considered, those who live to adulthood are safe: if they don't find anything worrying during the most difficult 17 years of a person's life they're not likely to develop anything later on that can't be handled. Sure, they still require attention, which is why Tomiko stressed that they have to account for every single person. But still: an adult can go crazy or whatever, but as long as it's neither Hashimoto-Appelbaum Syndrome nor Rahman-Krogius (or however you want to spell it) Syndrome, his genetic and mental blocks will not only automatically prevent him from turning on another human, but kill him if he tries to do so. And due to the way the children are raised (and culled if necessary), any adult is essentially free of personality issues that might unexpectedly cause a catastrophe.

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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Since I consider the original ED one of the finest I've seen in years I'll be very sad if it is replaced by the song that appeared in this episode. I'm hoping it was just an insert song because it was particularly unmemorable.
Yeah, same here. :/ Pandering aside, I just don't think it's a good song, definitely not on par with Wareta ringo.

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-01-22 at 06:37.
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Old 2013-01-22, 06:12   Link #68
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I must be the only person who doesn't like the ED at all.
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Old 2013-01-22, 07:44   Link #69
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I must be the only person who doesn't like the ED at all.
After thinking about it, I don't think the new ED works well as an ED for the remainder of this anime. This is because I doubt we're going to be seeing much more of Maria the rest of the way, so having an ED focusing on her and Saki will soon seem strange if Maria is never in the future episodes themselves.

That being said, I thought the ED worked very nicely for this episode. I thought it did a great job of emphasizing the long and joyous friendship enjoyed by Saki and Maria, adding to the emotional resonance of them having to now part ways. Plus, I liked its portrayal of Saki and Maria's first meeting with each other. The way Saki first saw Maria reminds me of another Saki, actually... that Saki being Saki Miyanaga, and how she first saw Nodoka in the anime named Saki.
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Old 2013-01-22, 08:48   Link #70
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I must be the only person who doesn't like the ED at all.
You aren't. It was a really painful ED that i learned to skip at the end of each episodes for the sake of my ears.
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Old 2013-01-22, 11:34   Link #71
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by Rakshasa View Post
It seems people are conflating the dangers of Akki compared to Gouma.

They are clearly not the same thing, nor is the behavior of the affected person. The latter might not wish to die however there's no reason why they'd intentionally try to kill people, deaths would be more akin to accidents than mass murder.
Gouma's psychic taint seem more wide reaching than Akki's murder sprees though
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Old 2013-01-22, 15:03   Link #72
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I'm in agreement that the previous ED was superior. On that note, I hope that Saki's VA gets to star in other anime besides this. Her voice is really amazing! It has a subtle sensuality to it that made me a little uncomfortable since her character is so young. I'm glad she'll be 26 next episode...
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Old 2013-01-22, 15:23   Link #73
Solace
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You aren't. It was a really painful ED that i learned to skip at the end of each episodes for the sake of my ears.
Glad I'm not alone then! I love the animation, but the song...ugh. Way too upbeat. It always kills my mood when the credits roll. Maria's song in this episode was something I didn't like either. It felt really out of place, starting so abruptly at the beginning of the episode. It was like they needed a way to condense that part of the story and chose a song over a sequence of flashbacks.
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Old 2013-01-22, 16:15   Link #74
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For me, what makes the current ED great is not the song (which is pretty good, if not something I would normally listen to), but the whole package: song, lyrics, visuals. Especially the visuals and how they connect to the song and the story itself, built around an event that we'll see in a few weeks, full of symbolism.

This new song, though... aside of being pretty bland (just my subjective opinion), it was clearly made with one purpose in mind which is Saki and Maria service. Which would be "ok, whatever" in just this one episode, but as a regular ED it's just disconnected from the actual story. I'll wait with a final opinion until I see the visuals, but I'm disappointed already.

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Glad I'm not alone then! I love the animation, but the song...ugh. Way too upbeat.
I don't know, have you seen the lyrics?

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It felt really out of place, starting so abruptly at the beginning of the episode. It was like they needed a way to condense that part of the story and chose a song over a sequence of flashbacks.
I agree about how it felt clunky and out of place, but the funny thing is, there was nothing to condense (at least, nothing Maria-related). The flashback during the song and the letter was, as far as I remember, all anime original material, except for the scenes with the kids at the matsuri. I liked the flashbacks during the letter, but I felt playing the song on its own in addition to the letter and all those flashbacks was simply gratuituous. :/
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Old 2013-01-22, 18:26   Link #75
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Are we 100% sure that song is the new ED? It's a bit of an odd choice to use it as an insert song first. And it's even more strange to have this new ED be Maria x Saki (which as much as I like it is only a small part of the overall storyline). I know it was reported Kana Hanazawa would sing the new ED, but perhaps it's another song?
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Old 2013-01-22, 20:24   Link #76
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Glad I'm not alone then! I love the animation, but the song...ugh. Way too upbeat. It always kills my mood when the credits roll.
I wouldn't say that the old ED is upbeat though. IMO there's a major element of melancholy in the music. The lyric itself is bittersweet, just like this anime. Plus, the visual is inspired. In short, the whole package of the ED is good and enjoyable. If I were to make a comparison, the ED is similar to Suara's OPs for Utawarerumono series and OVA.

All that said, I don't like the insert song (which might/will be the new ED) replacing the usual ED.
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Old 2013-01-22, 21:42   Link #77
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The lyrics are melancholic, but the instruments and singing are not. This is personal opinion, that's all. It's not the lyrics that I don't feel match, but the everything else about the song. It's a bit like Mai Otome's ED, where you'd get this really happy song right after a dramatic and/or tragic cliffhanger. Really jarring.

The overall music package in SSY feels really muted and forgettable to me. If it wasn't for the amazing track that plays over the opening title, I'm not sure I'd remember any of it in a year.
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Old 2013-01-23, 03:26   Link #78
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Are we 100% sure that song is the new ED? It's a bit of an odd choice to use it as an insert song first. And it's even more strange to have this new ED be Maria x Saki (which as much as I like it is only a small part of the overall storyline). I know it was reported Kana Hanazawa would sing the new ED, but perhaps it's another song?
i think this is the song, but the video will be different

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The lyrics are melancholic, but the instruments and singing are not. This is personal opinion, that's all. It's not the lyrics that I don't feel match, but the everything else about the song. It's a bit like Mai Otome's ED, where you'd get this really happy song right after a dramatic and/or tragic cliffhanger. Really jarring.

The overall music package in SSY feels really muted and forgettable to me. If it wasn't for the amazing track that plays over the opening title, I'm not sure I'd remember any of it in a year.
i don't think so, 2-3 tracks are very good ("sad song" is one of them) and there is "from the new world" too (the 2nd movement was played 3-4 times and i think the 4th will be played too)
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Old 2013-01-23, 06:18   Link #79
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I actually quite liked Maria's song, mainly because to me it was a 'death' song, and i am a big wimp so i ended up crying
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Old 2013-01-23, 09:39   Link #80
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I really liked Maria's song as well, that being said I am going to miss Wareta Ringo as an ending song.
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